Idea for the Experimental Farm

[RTWAP]

I found an interesting tool that lets you calculate the area of irregular regions on google maps. (http://www.daftlogic.com/sandbox-goo...lator-tool.htm) and I was thinking about calls for Ottawa to have a 'Central Park' like area - a vibrant, central and connected area that mixes nature and city. I think Ottawa actually has the existing natural features and infrastructure that provides a better setting for this than the New York City equivalent.

And then I started wondering about sizes. Central Park is pretty large. A mini version of that would probably be missing the critical mass to draw people to a variety of uses. Central Park is 843 acres. It turns out that the Experimental Farm and adjacent parkland in Ottawa equivalent is about 1200 acres.



Given that basic idea, here are some half thought out details to flesh it out.

• Do an assessment of which AgCan buildings and lands are required for a robust Agriculture/Natural Environment Museum and declare the rest to be devoted to the Park.
• Investigate the viability of hosting SuperEx on the site (it would be well-served by transit and would emphasize the agricultural heritage of the Exhibition).
• Build footbridges over the Canal and River near Colonel By and University Road to connect with the greenspace to the SE. The parks would be like a string of pearls - Mooney's Bay, Hog's Back, Vincent Massey, leading to Central Park. It would support walking/cycling connections from the trail system between Riverside and the Rideau that extends well to the east.
• Structure a series of design competitions for phases of parkland redesign. Start with an overall structure that provides some high level principles to ensure some continuity while allowing for local variation, and then proceed with the redesign in blocks (perhaps 3 or 4?) over a period of 5-15 years. Allow later phases to take advantage of lessons learned in earlier ones (less structured or more structured, types of programming, recreation mix, etc.)
• Whatever the result, I would expect that the Arboretum would be significantly enhanced with the planting of many more trees, and perhaps the re-routing of Prince of Wales to accommodate additional areas.

Less popular but important (to me at least) would be to combine this with some intensification that both took advantage of the location and increased the number of people who would use the park.

• Offer the Civic Hospital a land swap (plus cash?) for the Civic Hospital lands on Carling, whereby the Civic would build anew on the SE corner of Hunt Club and Woodroffe (on a mass transit line), or expand the General hospital site and create local satellite hospitals if and as required.
• Build a mix of residential (medium to high intensity) and commercial (incl. leased federal) on the former Civic lands.
• Put secondary LRT (street level, non-segregated) along Carling

EDIT: Re-organized for clarity

[eemy]

I like the Experimental Farm - it is unique and interesting, and it serves an important scientific function. Ottawa already has many really big parks; I don't think it would be better served with another even larger one.

[DubberDom]

Using a $200k/acre figure and assuming 1200 available acres, that's $240Million.

Seriously, that farm can be related to anywhere 30 minutes outside Ottawa, there is no reason to have it in the geographical center of the urban city. Fed gov is sitting on a gold mine.

What is the rationale to keep it there?

[YOWflier]

A farm at the center of the city is absurd. Always has been and always will be.

It's high time we moved experimental farm to rural Ottawa and began systematically developing its urban lands.

[eemy]

Originally Posted by DubberDom

Using a $200k/acre figure and assuming 1200 available acres, that's $240Million.

Seriously, that farm can be related to anywhere 30 minutes outside Ottawa, there is no reason to have it in the geographical center of the urban city. Fed gov is sitting on a gold mine.

What is the rationale to keep it there?

The main benefit its present location provides is its isolation from other farms. This effectively prevents contamination of various hybrids they test and develop with genetic material from other sources.

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

The main benefit its present location provides is its isolation from other farms. This effectively prevents contamination of various hybrids they test and develop with genetic material from other sources.

There are isolated farms in rural locations too.

For the price of the land, AgCan could buy another large block on the outskirts of the city and recreate the farm there. Repeat every 125 years.

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I like the Experimental Farm - it is unique and interesting, and it serves an important scientific function. Ottawa already has many really big parks; I don't think it would be better served with another even larger one.

It's unique, but I have never heard of anyone from another city being impressed by it. Surprised? Sure. And I've heard people say how unusual it is. But given that it's a farm, it has a significant negative economic impact on the city in its current location.

Ottawa doesn't have any large urban parks, that I'm aware of. There are greenbelt areas, which are a completely different type of creature. And there are neighbourhood parks. And there are ribbon parks beside rivers and such. But there aren't any large urban parks, with the possible exception of the Arboretum, which doesn't have the critical mass that a large park would, and it is not programmed as a park.

Dow's Lake could be much more than it is. The whole area is a jewel in the rough.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

A farm at the center of the city is absurd. Always has been and always will be.

From what I understand the built up areas around the Central Experimental Farm have created a false climate (primarily in warmer night time temps) especially due to the buildings to the west. When the Farm was first built it was in the country and it replicated eastern Ontario rural areas in terms of climate and was realistic in terms of developing crops that could withstand the local climate.

Developing the Central Experimental Farm would be about as popular as developing the greenbelt in most people's minds...this forum may think differently but for most of the 'folks' out there they consider it as sacred.

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

From what I understand the built up areas around the Central Experimental Farm have created a false climate (primarily in warmer night time temps) especially due to the buildings to the west. When the Farm was first built it was in the country and it replicated eastern Ontario rural areas in terms of climate and was realistic in terms of developing crops that could withstand the local climate.

Developing the Central Experimental Farm would be about as popular as developing the greenbelt in most people's minds...this forum may think differently but for most of the 'folks' out there they consider it as sacred.

The idea isn't to develop it. The idea is to make it accessible as a park. Right now you can walk the roads and bike on the path but most of the territory is off-limits.

[DEVPLAN]

Originally Posted by DubberDom

Using a $200k/acre figure and assuming 1200 available acres, that's $240Million.

Seriously, that farm can be related to anywhere 30 minutes outside Ottawa, there is no reason to have it in the geographical center of the urban city. Fed gov is sitting on a gold mine.

What is the rationale to keep it there?

The land is worth much more than 200K/acre. Serviced commercially zoned land in Orleans is going for $650,000/acre.

If Jeremy's rational for the location of the Experimental Farm is correct then the Feds definately need to consider selling off some of the greenbelt lands elsewhere. I recall somewhere in this forum someone quoting a study that suggested that 25% of the greenbelt could be developed without affecting its environmental integrity.

[matty14]

I really really like this. Especially the part about integrating the Ex into it. It's definitely about time we do something to that thing. When it the CEF was created back in the 1880s, it was located way outside the city - a perfect spot for agricultural research. It isn't anymore. I don't think there's many major cities in Canada where there is so much farmland inside the city limits. I feel the same way about Greenbelt development. I can understand and respect the environmentally sensitive areas, but I think its time we start developing some of this stagnant farmland inside the city, and create a new Greenbelt outside the city limits and actually follow through with its intention to curb urban sprawl. We can create transit-oriented and environmentally respectful urban developments on these farmlands, and move them outside the city where they belong.

This hypothetical park could really be a jewel and the envy of the rest of Canada (like Stanley Park in Vancouver). It could also attract other festivals, and maybe we can pitch this to the Glebites as an actual good location for a "Central Park". Wait, it's not in their neighbourhood, so they won't care. Never mind.

[eternallyme]

The Central Park idea is a great one. The Experimental Farm itself could easily be relocated to the current Agriculture Canada lands, which is much larger and also accessible by rapid transit (just need a station or two between Fallowfield and West Hunt Club).

As for the Civic Hospital lands, a new hospital (or hospitals) elsewhere might be a good idea, but would require private funding for sure (sorry unions, but I don't think you should have a monopoly over health care, but that should be for another topic to debate). What I would do:

*Close the aging Civic campus.

*Relocate its highly specialized services to the General, which should be Ottawa's main medical centre.

*Standard hospital services should be moved to 3 new community hospitals - one at LeBreton Flats (to maintain downtown area presence), and one each in Kanata and Barrhaven. Although not serving the same area, a campus in Orleans should also be opened. All of them should be along a rapid transit corridor. That would increase the number of ER's in Ottawa by 3, and bring those in the suburbs much closer to health care services.

*Redevelop the area north of Carling as suggested.

[waterloowarrior]

Heres a relatively recent management plan done for the farm. one of the potential options/identities they considered was a public park (at least an increased role as a park), but they went with a research focus for the lands

http://www4.agr.gc.ca/AAFC-AAC/displ...86778&lang=eng

here's what they came up with (probably better to read the text, the images are quite small.. one thing was the redevelopment of the Sir John Carling building )

[DubberDom]

Originally Posted by DEVPLAN

The land is worth much more than 200K/acre. Serviced commercially zoned land in Orleans is going for $650,000/acre.

I know it may be worth more, just throwing a figure. The $650k an acre is the premium rate for commercial property along an existing artery (ie. Innes road as an example). This is farm land with no services except for the properties facing Merivale, Baseline and Carling, so $200k/acre, or thereabouts is likely a pretty accurate wag for everything else inside

[lrt's friend]

The Central Experimental Farm is part of what makes Ottawa unique. The citizens of Ottawa will have major objections if we make major changes to this public facility. Let's just remember the hoopla that happened when a small underutilized portion was to be converted into a Botanical Gardens.

[YOWflier]

1) Unique does not always mean great. In this case it means absurd.
2) This space is anything but public.
3) A loud minority will make some noise as is usually the case, but the silent majority won't care.

Contrary to how this council operates, you can't run a city by being afraid of, and always succumbing to, the pressure of a few loud people who aren't happy unless they're miserable about something.

A farm at the center of the city is absurd. Time for it to go.

[harls]

Is there really that much pressure to develop the CEP? Sorry - I figured the city wasn't at that tipping point yet to make it viable.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

1) Unique does not always mean great. In this case it means absurd.
2) This space is anything but public.
3) A loud minority will make some noise as is usually the case, but the silent majority won't care.

Contrary to how this council operates, you can't run a city by being afraid of, and always succumbing to, the pressure of a few loud people who aren't happy unless they're miserable about something.

A farm at the center of the city is absurd. Time for it to go.

I think you underestimate the interest that a great many people have in preserving the CEF. Opposition to Lansdowne Live will be a whimper in comparison to what can be expected for a plan to develop the CEF.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by harls

Is there really that much pressure to develop the CEP? Sorry - I figured the city wasn't at that tipping point yet to make it viable.

Exactly. There are huge swaths of greenspace within the Greenbelt that can be developed. The land set aside for ring parkways that never happened (Alta Vista, Colonnade and areas west, Hunt Club woods, etc) alone equal the size of the farm, and are perfect for transit oriented development. There's also the railyard lands north of Greenboro. As I mentioned in another thread, population is likely to peak mid-century, with Ottawa's population probably set at 1.5 million. With smart use of available land and intensified redevelopment, there is likely more than enough property available without touching green legacies such as the Greenbelt or the Farm.

Global population is set to shrink towards the end of the century. The logistic of this is simple: the world population is aging, therefore the fertility rate will drop dramatically. As conditions improve in other parts of the world, there will also be less immigrants coming into Canada.

Fifty years or more from now, priorities for land might just change away from needing more housing. Who knows, maybe it will swing back towards growing food closer to home, as energy for transport becomes exorbitant. Maybe the farm will become a place of vertical greenhouses, and develop crops that are well suited for this kind of thing.

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The Central Experimental Farm is part of what makes Ottawa unique. The citizens of Ottawa will have major objections if we make major changes to this public facility. Let's just remember the hoopla that happened when a small underutilized portion was to be converted into a Botanical Gardens.

I'm a daily newspaper reader and I don't recall any hoopla.

I think public reaction would be dependent on what is proposed. I just can't believe that people would rather see farm fields instead of an engaging city park, expanded arboretum, and expanded museum.

I had another tweak too. I'm reminded of the Golden Gate Park in SF, which has a great collection of museums (art, science), botanical gardens, zoo, aquarium, etc. Check out the list here.

Oh yah, Golden Gate park is 1017 acres.

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

With smart use of available land and intensified redevelopment, there is likely more than enough property available without touching green legacies such as the Greenbelt or the Farm.

I agree, the first priority should be the intensified use of the lands you identified, but projections show that isn't sufficient. Farmland will need to be developed. Calling the industrial farm sections of the Greenbelt a 'green legacy' seem like BS to me. They're industrial food factories. They're about as green as the ethanol gasoline you get from the green-handled gas pump. They have a negative environmental impact, not positive.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the museums idea came about from a conversation I was having about the need for a location for a new Sci-Tech museum.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The Central Experimental Farm is part of what makes Ottawa unique. The citizens of Ottawa will have major objections if we make major changes to this public facility. Let's just remember the hoopla that happened when a small underutilized portion was to be converted into a Botanical Gardens.

There is an excellent area that could be converted into the Experimental Farm down in Barrhaven on the current Agriculture Canada lands. It is more than 4x the size of the Central Experimental Farm, and well-connected by rapid transit as well (the visitors centre could be near Fallowfield Station, for instance).

A botanical garden would be a great use for a portion of the current Central Experimental Farm, and the rest could be converted into a large urban park.