What could have been — old visions and plans for Ottawa

[Ryersonian]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Think of the 401 running across Toronto placed in downtown Ottawa.

That report certainly reflects the era, when road expansion was considered the only solution to traffic congestion. Fortunately, even by the 70s, the folly of this approach was already being understood with increasing resistance from the public. The perfect example was the public uproar that killed the Spadina expressway in Toronto.

Enter Jane Jacobs!

[Ryersonian]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

Hey Warrior, I'm really glad you found your way to the Holt Plan. I own a copy of it (found it in a used bookstore years ago and jumped at it even for $80 bucks).

The grand Railway Plaza at the mouth of Elgin Street is probably the most majestic rendition of Beaux Arts planning this city will ever have known. As for the subway plans, did you see the alignments? Elgin was going to have a line. And did you also see the drawing showing the extension of Laurier westward past Bronson, through a bridge dug right into the cliff?

The big map of "Future Ottawa" in the Holt Plan (he was looking ahead to about 1950) is probably the most fascinating. He completely grids everything that turned out to be roughly our "Inside the Greenbelt" area. If we had actually implemented that grid and the lot pattern it supposes, I'm sure we could've fit today's entire population inside the Greenbelt with no need for the Kanatas and Orleans we have now...

You have the Holt Plan!! Any chance of getting a digital copy...I would be willing to contribute to the cost. Anybody else?

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by Ryersonian

You have the Holt Plan!! Any chance of getting a digital copy...I would be willing to contribute to the cost. Anybody else?

It's about 200 pages including the plans and drawings. It is a beautiful volume and also quite old. My copy isn't too fragile so as long as it's handled with extreme care I don't have a problem lending it. I'd want to be there for the scans. We'd need a large enough scanner to digitize the big plates.

[adam-machiavelli]

I have an original, mint condition copy of the book with maps and images associated with the Greber Plan. I also have links to their digitized versions c/o my thesis advisor.

[Ryersonian]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

I have an original, mint condition copy of the book with maps and images associated with the Greber Plan. I also have links to their digitized versions c/o my thesis advisor.

You guys got me all excited! Can we see the digitized versions too? Could you download and burn a copy!?

[Ryersonian]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

It's about 200 pages including the plans and drawings. It is a beautiful volume and also quite old. My copy isn't too fragile so as long as it's handled with extreme care I don't have a problem lending it. I'd want to be there for the scans. We'd need a large enough scanner to digitize the big plates.

We've got some great stuff here at work, but even better my neighbour works for Archives...I'll have a chat with her and see if she can help us out!

[Mille Sabords]

I'm all for giving more visibility and exposure to the Holt Plan. In fact I want to start a "bring back Holt" campaign aimed at the NCC!

[Ryersonian]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

I'm all for giving more visibility and exposure to the Holt Plan. In fact I want to start a "bring back Holt" campaign aimed at the NCC!

I'm with you brother!

[adam-machiavelli]

Ahem....
https://qshare.queensu.ca/Users01/go...ital/index.htm

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

Hey Warrior, I'm really glad you found your way to the Holt Plan. I own a copy of it (found it in a used bookstore years ago and jumped at it even for $80 bucks).

The grand Railway Plaza at the mouth of Elgin Street is probably the most majestic rendition of Beaux Arts planning this city will ever have known. As for the subway plans, did you see the alignments? Elgin was going to have a line. And did you also see the drawing showing the extension of Laurier westward past Bronson, through a bridge dug right into the cliff?

The big map of "Future Ottawa" in the Holt Plan (he was looking ahead to about 1950) is probably the most fascinating. He completely grids everything that turned out to be roughly our "Inside the Greenbelt" area. If we had actually implemented that grid and the lot pattern it supposes, I'm sure we could've fit today's entire population inside the Greenbelt with no need for the Kanatas and Orleans we have now...

yeah you can really see how strongly some of the old plans were influenced by the big planning movements like city beautiful, garden city, modernism etc. It's also neat to see how different parts/ideas were implemented or partially implemented across Ottawa and Gatineau. I was reading that the Holt Plan had problems getting implemented because of the war (no money left to build a subway )

Here are the two drawings you mentioned.

Downtown Subway Alignment (Click to enlarge).



Laurier Extension



I think this is from the 1969 Ottawa Central Area Study. So much for King Edward.





I think the Holt Report also showed a large chunk of the experimental farm area as developed. edit: Thanks for posting the link adam! Here's a direct link to the map of the extended grid system (Holt) https://qshare.queensu.ca/Users01/go...awing%2021.jpg

[Deez]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

Ahem....
https://qshare.queensu.ca/Users01/go...ital/index.htm

amazing. thanks for this.

[drawarc]

Found this historic article browsing Google's news archive search feature(digital copies of newspapers available online):

Place de Ville second phase(or stage two as it was called) as proposed by developer Robert Campeau in 1968, originally 450 feet tall twin towers but rejected by NCC and OMB.

Link to article, includes photo rendering:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...de+ville&hl=en

[c_speed3108]

Yep there was a host of lobbying by Campeau all through the different phases:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_de_Ville


The world never actually changes; we just pretend it does.

[Ottawan]

What an amazing thread! Don't know how I missed it. I've really enjoyed what I've seen so far, and some of the links will provide hours of fun

[p_xavier]

We had a family gathering in Chelsea on Friday. So my dad dropped me off Saturday at the train station. He said, wasn't the train station downtown? Last time I took the train it was.

Yeah, that was a while ago!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Ryersonian

I'm with you brother!

And count me in!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

Personally, I think there is already plenty of (maybe even too much) open space around the Parliament Buildings and the front lawn is there exactly to provide a grand view. That was the design idea in 1859.

Actually, it wasn't: in the second half of the 19th century and well into the 20th, that "grand view" was obscured, delightfully so, by a canopy of tall elms along Wellington. If you wanted a view of the Parliament buildings, you'd have to duck under the trees and go onto the lawn itself.

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Actually, it wasn't: in the second half of the 19th century and well into the 20th, that "grand view" was obscured, delightfully so, by a canopy of tall elms along Wellington. If you wanted a view of the Parliament buildings, you'd have to duck under the trees and go onto the lawn itself.

So, when you got past the canopy of elms, there was the grand view. My point here is that the Parliament buildings were deliberately set apart from the city's urban fabric, unlike other parliament buildings of that era including London's and Budapest's.

[ajldub]

The parliament buildings have a lawn in front of them, but many government buildings around the world are associated with some type of mall, plaza or garden. Comparisons to London's and Budapest's buildings can be countered by comparisons to many other cities like Washington and Berlin. Personally I think it's a shame the British Parliament is just another building on the corner of a block. The only memorable view of it is from the other side of the river. Ours, on the other hand, stick out quite beautifully from any angle they are viewed.

I actually think that when you compare architectural style, location, and layout, our buildings are in contention for the most beautiful parliament buildings in the world. I wouldn't change them at all. Except maybe build the Bank Street Building.

[Ryersonian]

Originally Posted by Ryersonian

We've got some great stuff here at work, but even better my neighbour works for Archives...I'll have a chat with her and see if she can help us out!

So we're back on this...Sweet...We have a large scanner at work so perhaps (If I can clear it with a director) we can do it here. I never asked my neighbour about this, but I will now that I am reminded. It would be incredible to get this digitized and distributed...It's the only way to get this out there.