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Old Posted Oct 17, 2009, 10:06 PM
Phalanx Phalanx is offline
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Porkbarrel Politics

Since this kind of came up a few weeks back in the Nova Centre thread, I thought this article in today's Herald may be interesting. Political pork is nothing new, but it should never be condoned, and this seems excessive.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1147994.html

Quote:
Ottawa is sending me into a black rage

STEPHEN MAHER LETTER FROM OTTAWA
Sat. Oct 17 - 4:46 AM

DURING THE LAST election campaign, I interviewed a young woman in a New Glasgow pub who told me she was voting for Peter MacKay because she hoped he would create some jobs, so she and her friends wouldn’t have to move away.

Mr. MacKay has done that. A recent Chronicle Herald analysis has found that he has steered $101.7 million in federal stimulus money to Central Nova.

I imagine that young woman is happy with Mr. MacKay and there are likely grandmothers across Central Nova who are saying prayers for him nightly because all that money for roads and rinks and sewers means some Pictou County boys, who would be breathing the dusty, oily air of Fort Mac, are able to stay at home with their families, inhaling the clean breezes off the Northumberland Strait.

Mr. MacKay, like his father Elmer before him, is doing his best for his people and they have every reason to be happy with that.

People in Dartmouth may have a different view because the programs that dumped $101.7 million into Central Nova put only $5.2 million into Liberal Dartmouth. If I lived there, I might wonder why I am good enough to pay taxes but not good enough to get any of the stimulus spending. I might damn the whole thing as a grotesque game of bobbing for pork, the kind of shabby vote-buying that we have mostly purged from provincial politics but still recurs federally, although not often on this scale.

We haven’t seen it like this since 1997 when voters turfed Liberal kingpin David Dingwall, the guy who paved backwoods Cape Breton with money diverted from the Truro-Amherst highway, which is why we still have to pay a damned toll to get in or out of the province.

Along that highway, voters’ reaction to the stimulus spending may be more complicated than in either Dartmouth or Pictou County.

The riding of Cumberland-Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley got $24.7 million in stimulus cash, which is almost its fair share. But voters in Truro might wonder why their recreation centre has yet to get federal cash when the one in Mr. MacKay’s riding got $12 million, even though the municipalities there aren’t sure they want to pay their share.

Is it because people in Truro voted for Independent Bill Casey federally and NDPer Lenore Zann provincially?

Will that kind of calculation make them more or less likely to vote Conservative? We’ll see on Nov. 9, when there’s a byelection there.

As a journalist, it’s not my job to tell those people what to think or how to vote.

It is my job, though, to tell them how their government is spending their money, and I can report that the federal government is making it so difficult to do that, that it’s sending me into a black rage.

In order to create a database of federal stimulus spending in Nova Scotia, it was necessary to look at all kinds of different federal websites, all with scraps of information, and then find out from other levels of government how much money was spent on each project and figure out where the shovels were hitting the ground.

In the United States, on the recovery.gov website, you can, in seconds, download exhaustively detailed databases showing where and how stimulus is being spent, who is getting the contracts, for how much, when, and how many jobs are created.

In Canada, on the actionplan.gc.ca site, there’s a map with icons showing where projects are located, but if you click on the icons, you get a popup with a charming picture of what’s his name, our prime minister, but no dollar amount.

There is a link to a video of the same guy singing a Beatles song, but there’s no database of projects available for download.

Last month in Oakville, when asked about the allegation — made by a Tory candidate — that one project was killed because the riding was Liberal, the prime minister said don’t worry: "We can give you a list of announcements made across the country."

Three weeks later, after repeated requests for that list, his office told me this week to stop bothering them. Turns out the prime minister was joking, or lying. They are not going to cough up a list. Instead, they directed me to the useless actionplan.gc.ca site, and suggested I click on 6,000 individual links and draw up my own list.

FAIL.

These people are either cynically withholding information that would allow voters to see where their tax dollars are beings spent, or they are idiots, or maybe both.

They think they are smart to hide this information — perhaps because it could be politically damaging if they are shown to be shovelling pork into Tory ridings nationwide — but they are not smart.

Canadians want their government to be accountable, and the Tories ought to know that.

If I had a dollar for every time our prime minister promised "accountability" during election campaigns I’d be able to stimulate the economy of the south of France this winter and forget about clicking on stupid websites.

That promise is what got the prime minister elected, and he is now declining to provide the most basic kind of accountability. He won’t let the people who pay his bills — such as me — see how he is spending our money.

It’s disgraceful and deserves to be denounced as such.

( smaher@herald.ca)
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  #2  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2009, 10:20 PM
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Dmajackson Dmajackson is offline
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^Interesting article ...

I'm surprised he didn't use the Bedford rinks as an example.

A $42 million four pad arena = no money (HRM to pay)
A cheap one pad arena = $1 million (Rocky Lake Development Association is filled with former Conservative representives)

hmmm ... good luck to a Conservative supporter with explaining that.
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  #3  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2009, 2:23 AM
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Okay how do we address this issue of partisan government spending? Could this not be considered unconstitutional? (does that even have the shadow of a threat in this country anymore?) Really, this is one more example of why we have not had responsible government since Joe Howe.
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  #4  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2009, 1:21 PM
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The solution is simple. Nova Scotians need to realize they cannot constantly be thumbing their nose at the federal govt by electing people to sit on the other side and criticize the party in power. If we were to get with the program there would be no issue. Instead we take the typical NS attitude of bitching and electing the Bill Caseys of the world to make some kind of point, then complain when it doesn't result in handouts.
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Old Posted Oct 18, 2009, 3:53 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Ah keith, I love your attitude towards politics. We should only have one political party across the country, and the only purpose behind going to vote would be to continually trick ourselves into believing we actually live in some sort of democracy.

I'm curious to know if you shared the same feelings when we were under a Liberal government?
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  #6  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2009, 3:54 PM
Nilan8888 Nilan8888 is offline
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Yeeeahhh... that sounds like just sort of picking the likely winner. I don't know about just electing complainers, that I'd agree with, but Nova Scotians can elect whatever party they want.

Parties diverting money to loyal districts is nothing new. The Liberals have done the same. It's to be expected and shouldn't change anything significant.

Complicating the matter, of course, is that the Conservative Party today is still a western-based party (And has been since the days of Reform and the collapse of the PCs) whose power base is, essentially, in Calgary. Which is supposedly a big reason as to why Belinda Stronach left thier ranks. Even the provincial parties in Atlantic Canada still refer to themseves as the old PC party last time I checked.
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  #7  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2009, 4:01 PM
Phalanx Phalanx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
The solution is simple. Nova Scotians need to realize they cannot constantly be thumbing their nose at the federal govt by electing people to sit on the other side and criticize the party in power. If we were to get with the program there would be no issue. Instead we take the typical NS attitude of bitching and electing the Bill Caseys of the world to make some kind of point, then complain when it doesn't result in handouts.
Wow... So buying votes is acceptable? What happened to voting for the party platform? What happened to voting for good management? I'm not going to vote for a party just because I hope to get a handout from them. If that's how it works, we may as well just give up on voting, no?

I mean, that's really what you're suggesting, isn't it? Money isn't supposed to be given on the basis of merit, need or to benefit the majority, it's supposed to be given for those who kowtow?
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  #8  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2009, 6:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
Wow... So buying votes is acceptable? What happened to voting for the party platform? What happened to voting for good management? I'm not going to vote for a party just because I hope to get a handout from them. If that's how it works, we may as well just give up on voting, no?

I mean, that's really what you're suggesting, isn't it? Money isn't supposed to be given on the basis of merit, need or to benefit the majority, it's supposed to be given for those who kowtow?
Look, you can stand on principle all you want, but you cannot ignore reality forever. There are all sorts of good projects to choose from and it's only natural that the bulk of the money will go to those who have a seat at the table where decisions get made. What chance does the federal NDP have of ever having any sort of power in Ottawa? None in the foreseeable future. So voters in the federal riding of Halifax elect the useless Alexa McDonough for years and years and then finally when she goes away they replace her with another NDPer, Megan Leslie. She may be a great lady but if your objective is to get federal money then she is the wrong choice. It's not hard. If you want to have the satisfaction of knowing you elected the person who represents your interests, fine, vote for whomever you want. But if you want govt handouts, get on side with the govt, or otherwise, stop complaining.
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  #9  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2009, 10:51 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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And you actually think this is a good thing, and the way government should work?
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  #10  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2009, 1:34 AM
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reddog794 reddog794 is offline
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Stop complaining?

So what you're saying, is that because we have a more socially minded electorate, that we deserve less federal funding, that we pay into through tax, than say Alberta?

Please Keith take no offence to this, as I enjoy reading your posts as they are always the other hand, but what you just described sounds like it was taken from Stephen Harper's diary.

If we want to change this, we don't just bitch, we get LOUD. These figures need to be in more than just the CH, but put up on the stage nationally. Imagine what Montreal, or Toronto voters would think if they saw the difference in per capita spending they get, in comparison to central Nova.

This is not a Nova Scotia issue, it's an example of a system that had been broken almost from day 1, because I can imagine that this is not the only "finger on the scale", type of federal spending.

So in response to your answer Keith, I recommend More complaining, because if people didn't complain, where would Nelson Mandela be? Or for that matter Joe Howe? Sir William Alexander? Amour de Cosmos?
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Old Posted Apr 4, 2012, 9:36 PM
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I hope no one votes NDP next election. Dexter promised not to raise taxes if elected and once elected he raised the HST 2% pts to 15%. Realizing what a gullible public he is dealing with he now promises to reduce the HST by 2% pts over two years after he is elected again...

Here's a newsflash....if he is elected again he will no doubt repeat history and raise the HST by 2 more percentage pts. NDP = 17% HST
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Old Posted Apr 4, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Empire View Post
I hope no one votes NDP next election. Dexter promised not to raise taxes if elected and once elected he raised the HST 2% pts to 15%. Realizing what a gullible public he is dealing with he now promises to reduce the HST by 2% pts over two years after he is elected again...

Here's a newsflash....if he is elected again he will no doubt repeat history and raise the HST by 2 more percentage pts. NDP = 17% HST
They wouldn't have had to put up the tax rate if the previous governments weren't so irresponsible. I am fine with paying an extra 2% if it will help improve the dire situation in our province.

The NDP seem to actually be trying to do something right in NS, and yes I know they have made blunders during their three years in power but I think the good things have out-weighed the bad. I will be most certainly pissed if we kick them out for the the Liberals (or worse the PCs) because they're the ones who have helped keep us economically depressed for the last bajillion years.
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Old Posted Apr 4, 2012, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mcmcclassic View Post
They wouldn't have had to put up the tax rate if the previous governments weren't so irresponsible. I am fine with paying an extra 2% if it will help improve the dire situation in our province.
Really?

You're fine with having the highest sales tax in the country, making us the least attractive province to spend your money in?

You're fine with the extra grand you've spent since the HST hike came into effect?

Our dire situation, is whatever the current government makes it out to be. They can manipulate the numbers all they want to make you think we need to pay an extra tax.

When is the sales tax too high 20%? 25%?
Maybe we should just pay a 50% sales tax and take ourselves out of debt immediately.

Quote:
The NDP seem to actually be trying to do something right in NS, and yes I know they have made blunders during their three years in power but I think the good things have out-weighed the bad. I will be most certainly pissed if we kick them out for the the Liberals (or worse the PCs) because they're the ones who have helped keep us economically depressed for the last bajillion years.
What exactly have they done right that hasn't involved the federal conservatives?

The NDP promised to be different, and all they have proved so far is that they are just like all other politicians, and will lie through their teeth to get re-elected. They have also shown us that the only way they know how to balance the books is to raise taxes. How about cutting some wasteful services, MLA perks?

Go ahead vote for the NDP and see if they keep their promise...
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Old Posted Apr 4, 2012, 11:48 PM
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You seem to be overlooking yesterday's bolt-from-the-blue announcement of a new $15 million high school for Eastern Passage by the Premier - a school the school board was neither aware of nor asked for, and which seemed to appear as if by magic. However, the Passage is solidly NDP, with Bulldog Becky Kent and union organizer Jackie Barkhouse dealing out the political pork for the Dippers, so this was eminently predictable. Don't try to characterize this sort of thing as being the exclusive province of the federal Conservatives. The NDP have shown they are quite adept at handing out goodies to their friends.
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Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 4:13 AM
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I am fine with paying an extra 2% if it will help improve the dire situation in our province.
Me too. It was 15% before Harper cut it back and the world didn't end then. 2% isn't a big variance from the rest of the country (the income tax spread is worse). The increased HST undoubtedly does some damage, but I think it's a touch overstated. I know I tend to buy things when I happen to be out of province now, but I also don't go out of my way to make special shopping trips to NB just to save 2%. This isn't a manipulating numbers exercise either. There is always some of that nonsense, like what the Tories and NDP pulled with university funding, but you can't hide from the basic fact that 1 of every 9 dollars collected in revenue in NS goes right back out the door to pay for interest on our $13 billion debt. It's our 4th largest expenditure and is close to edging out Community Services for 3rd and that's at the current rock bottom interest rates! It's not just taxes that hurts our ability to compete, being so indebted hurts us too because it ties up funds that could be used to do other things (stadium? ferries?). Just look at what debt did to Greece and the other weaker Euro countries. The NDP hasn't been perfect, but they've actually made an effort on the debt front and have been much better at managing things than almost all of the rest. Over the last several decades, the only other one I can think to give any kudos to is Hamn and maybe Savage (both their successors went right back to screwing things up). I actually fault the NDP for knuckling under to political pressure and promising to lower the HST. We should keep it at 15% and use the revenue to actually reduce our debt load. The savings in interest could be passed on through yearly reductions to the provincial income tax rate, creating a virtuous circle instead of the mess we're in now.

Last edited by spaustin; Apr 5, 2012 at 4:27 AM.
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Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire View Post
I hope no one votes NDP next election. Dexter promised not to raise taxes if elected and once elected he raised the HST 2% pts to 15%. Realizing what a gullible public he is dealing with he now promises to reduce the HST by 2% pts over two years after he is elected again...

Here's a newsflash....if he is elected again he will no doubt repeat history and raise the HST by 2 more percentage pts. NDP = 17% HST
We complain about lack of services, we complain about high taxes, I dont know why anyone gets in to politics. With people like you its a no win situation. What do you want? Less services?? If you were in office how would you deal with the ns debt? Just wondering. Im tired of people that complain one way or the other. Politicians are going to make what they make no matter how high the taxes are. We are a small province with a fairly large population considering our small area. Therefore we have little to draw from in the way of natural resources. Run for office on your low taxes but high services platform. You wouldn't be getting my vote. Im in the low income bracket and Id still rather pay the extra 2% to keep our debt down.
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Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Wouldn't be in a deficit if the government didn't shell out over 300 mil to Irving.
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  #18  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 12:24 PM
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Wouldn't be in a deficit if the government didn't shell out over 300 mil to Irving.
Actually we would. That sum is spread over several years and the current year sum is under $30 mil IIRC.
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Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 12:26 PM
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They lied. They lost any integrity they had.
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Old Posted Apr 5, 2012, 2:34 PM
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Wouldn't be in a deficit if the government didn't shell out over 300 mil to Irving.
The current structural deficit has little to do with the 268M (or whatever the number was) in forgivable loans. Our issues are far more than that and stretch back decades and decades across the lines of all 3 political parties.

As has been noted on here, wrong-headed regional development investments, a desire to placate everyone rather than focusing on strengths, and general pork barrelling have a long and storied history in this province, with the Tories and Liberals having perfected the stupidity long before the NDP came in and continued it (see moving ministries to rural areas as a prime current example).

In terms purely of the HST, I personally would rather see income taxes lowered long before the HST is lowered. I am far more comfortable with a consumption tax than an income tax, and in particular in the current economy I think it is a far smarter choice in terms of overall economic management from the perspective of the taxpayer. Consumption rather than income taxes allow for choice. You have money in your pocket and you can choose to either save it and/or pay down personal debt, or choose to spend it on say a new car and pay a consumption tax, or choose to spend it on a cheaper and/or used car and pay less consumption tax. High income taxes are far more regressive than high consumption taxes, hence why many economists recommended against Harper decreasing the GST.

Dexter doing the stereotypical thing of saying "Elect us and all will be well... Oops no wait it turns out the previous government left us in a worse situation than we knew about and now we have to break our promise" does piss me off. Again, all 3 parties have a long history of doing that, and in particular increasing taxes after saying you wouldn't is not exclusive to the left wing (e.g. Read My Lips, No New Taxes).
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