New Study Says Young People Want Apartments, Not Houses; iPhones, Not Cars

[mhays]

There are always workarounds. You can take a walk with those visitors and taxi back. Also, visitors can use transit too. (Edit...like Steely said!)

Millions of Americans live completely without our own cars. Many (such as me) do it purely by choice, being able to afford one easily. Presumably, most of us organize our lives to make it easy, via where we live, often not having kids, etc. But we do it. Personally I find my life extremely easy, without rentals and with maybe a dozen taxis per year.

[M II A II R II K]

There's also going to on vacation to a Florida resort for instance where the only thing that's walkable in some of those cities is just the beach. Taking a taxi there would end up costing more than the plane ticket.

However the hotels do have escort services, and escorts specifically for the tourist thing you want to see that's incorporated into the price of the ticket whether it be a boat or city tour or something.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

when fflint and his partner visited chicago, i took them on a 40 mile, 10 hour tour through chicago via walking, bus and train. i don't want to put words in fflint's mouth, but i think it's safe to say that he enjoyed the urban tour much more than if we had driven around in a car all afternoon and evening.

Absofuckinglutely. That was hands-down the best tour of any city, ever--so much more informative as to what the city is really like than any car trip could ever be. I feel confident in saying I could live in Chicago after walking around its core and its neighborhoods, sampling the local fare, riding the El and buses with locals, and all the little surprises tucked away from drivers' view. Thanks again!

[M II A II R II K]

Yes that's the best way to go, particularly for the more urban enthusiastic. A drive around can cover extra ground to see things and the history behind them, particularly if time is limited, in addition to the car free tour of course.

Things like seeing the U of C, and driving through those underground streets, but of cause that relied on people who happened to have cars already.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by mhays

There are always workarounds. You can take a walk with those visitors and taxi back. Also, visitors can use transit too. (Edit...like Steely said!)

Millions of Americans live completely without our own cars. Many (such as me) do it purely by choice, being able to afford one easily. Presumably, most of us organize our lives to make it easy, via where we live, often not having kids, etc. But we do it. Personally I find my life extremely easy, without rentals and with maybe a dozen taxis per year.

While it is possible to live without a car. I do feel having kids makes it a bit more difficult. Not that it can't be done. Its just easier without kids and not having a vehicle.

Just so you know I don't have any kids and don't have a vehicle.

The biggest thing I've noticed with not having a car is I shop less. It takes a lot more to get myself out the door and so I tend to spend less on frivolous things.

[mhays]

I was about six when my family got its first car. My dad had gotten hired as a backcountry ranger for the National Park Service, and had to commute 70 miles every couple weeks. We lived in a dense neighborhood a mile from Downtown Seattle. I was bratty on long walks but it worked. To this day my mom doesn't drive, though she makes very good money. She takes two buses to get to work. But I agree it's easier without kids, particularly if the kids mean you organize your life around a distant school, going to games, etc.

[llamaorama]

Something I've been thinking about lately is how eventually the car-sharing business/concept could mature and go mainstream.

Especially when electric vehicles first come. Initially they may not be cheap and will be limited in range and or size. People might not necessarily go out and buy these little city cars in droves. But on the flip side, it lends itself perfectly to urban car sharing, for people who just need a vehicle to shop or do a special errand that's off the beaten path of transit.

[plinko]

I have a curiosity question for those of you who frequent the car sharing and rentals over owning:

On a holiday or heavy travel weekend, have you ever found yourself stuck without access to one when you really need it?

I'm not expressing a preference of owning over the alternative, it's just a question. It would be extremely irritating to want to get out of the city and be unable to due to unavailable means of transportation.

For the record, yes I own a vehicle as does my wife. We could get by with just 1, but we don't.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by plinko

I have a curiosity question for those of you who frequent the car sharing and rentals over owning:

On a holiday or heavy travel weekend, have you ever found yourself stuck without access to one when you really need it?

nope. i use cars so rarely that getting one when i have needed one has never been a problem.

also, 90% of the time that i use a car-share car it's for business purposes to get to job sites out in the burbs where transit or biking would simply just eat up too much time.

[Rizzo]

From a business standpoint of the car sharing company, I think car-sharing on holidays would be the worst day. No one is really using the service since they are staying home with friends and family. Cars sit unused.

I've never had any issues getting a vehicle. Supply well exceeds demand. If someone has reserved a car next door to my building, there's another available two blocks away, and two blocks away from that, and two blocks away from that.......

If you know you need the car for sure on a certain day, just reserve well in advance. If you end up not needing it, you can just cancel your reservation.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by plinko

I have a curiosity question for those of you who frequent the car sharing and rentals over owning:

On a holiday or heavy travel weekend, have you ever found yourself stuck without access to one when you really need it?

No, that's never been a problem--but I book ahead for holidays and heavy travel weekends. I could see a possible problem for a last-minute renter on Thanksgiving day or something.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by fflint

No, that's never been a problem--but I book ahead for holidays and heavy travel weekends. I could see a possible problem for a last-minute renter on Thanksgiving day or something.

Its like the old saying "You snooze you loose"

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by cabotp

While it is possible to live without a car. I do feel having kids makes it a bit more difficult. Not that it can't be done. Its just easier without kids and not having a vehicle.

I would like to slightly dissagree with that comment.
The only reason it is so hard to live without a car when one has kids, is because we have made it that way in the way we build our communities.

Second I think we have made it preception that it is hard to not drive with kids.
To me it seems easier to just hop on a bus or train with a stroller, than having to fold the stroller, put the kid into a car seat in the car, than take them out on the other side, open the stroller, etc.
With transit, you just roll on and off the bus or train.

Bikes can also have baby seats, etc.

So I think it really comes down to what your lifestyle and if you really do want to knock the addicition to the car, etc.

It is the same issue with kids walking to school. Most kids can walk to school. They don't because parents have all of a sudden decided that walking to school is too much and they need to drive their kids.
When I went to school, all the kids used to walk. Now if you pass my old grade school during rush hour, you can't move in your car or on the bus, with all the cars stopping to pick up kids. The people live in the same homes they did when I was going to school. But now the kids get driven.

But really I do find think transit is easier for people with strollers, etc.
Actually to be honest, I made a purchase which came in a large box. I actually went to the store with a little foldable dolly. Put the box on that, and carted it on the bus to my house. It actually was easier than trying to fit it in the car trunk, etc.

[llamaorama]

I would think being able to use a vehicle to do heavier grocery shopping would be more necessary for a family than a single person or adult couple. But then again, in the future car sharing services are useful for that one unavoidable Wal-Mart trip(my Transport Planning professor does this, he's got two little kids and they live in the city).

I'm not a parent, but I suspect the real issue is that people with kids would be commonly making more trips not just from point A to point B(like work to home), but also a lot of A-B-C-D trips(school, sports, doctors office, friend), at a lot more times of day and on weekends.

In a place like New York where any trip you can possibly think of at any time a day is possible by transit, then it would be doable in theory(and in practice, generations of children have grown up in NYC). But other places like Atlanta or Seattle, even when maybe there is some nascent urbanity and enough transit that some singles or childless couples may decide to go car-free, its not going to happen unless the family is just poor and can't afford a vehicle.

Of course, maybe its just because I'm a guy, but I hope if I ever have kids I won't fall too much into the lifestyle they use as the context in marketing minivans. Seriously, do you really need a 7-seat vehicle with video displays in the seats and stow space so that when Mrs. Suburban Wife is transporting the entire kids soccer team on the way to yoga class(and she's oh so stressed out, BTW), the kids can be silenced by Harry Potter(you know, kids just have watch a movie for the exactly 6 and a half minutes they are in the car) and there is enough junk in the cargo space to entertain an entire village of African orphans.

[miketoronto]

But a lot of those trips can be made in one spot with proper transit and urban planning policies. Supermarkets can be near transit stations, etc.

Also at a certain age, kids can take transit to hockey games themselves. I see this in my suburb often, with kids going to the rec centre with their hockey bags on the bus.

But your key comment was about needing to travel outside peak hours. Transit must rise to the challenge, and provide a network that provides travel to anywhere seven days a week.

[llamaorama]

We're in agreement

I just wanted to reinforce how much of a different paradigm that that is from the status quo.

[Okstate]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I
Second I think we have made it preception that it is hard to not drive with kids.
To me it seems easier to just hop on a bus or train with a stroller, than having to fold the stroller, put the kid into a car seat in the car, than take them out on the other side, open the stroller, etc.
With transit, you just roll on and off the bus or train.

In Portland you are "supposed" to fold up your stroller on the light rail so that point is void for us anyway.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

I would think being able to use a vehicle to do heavier grocery shopping would be more necessary for a family than a single person or adult couple. But then again, in the future car sharing services are useful for that one unavoidable Wal-Mart trip(my Transport Planning professor does this, he's got two little kids and they live in the city).

I'm not a parent, but I suspect the real issue is that people with kids would be commonly making more trips not just from point A to point B(like work to home), but also a lot of A-B-C-D trips(school, sports, doctors office, friend), at a lot more times of day and on weekends.

In a place like New York where any trip you can possibly think of at any time a day is possible by transit, then it would be doable in theory(and in practice, generations of children have grown up in NYC). But other places like Atlanta or Seattle, even when maybe there is some nascent urbanity and enough transit that some singles or childless couples may decide to go car-free, its not going to happen unless the family is just poor and can't afford a vehicle.

Of course, maybe its just because I'm a guy, but I hope if I ever have kids I won't fall too much into the lifestyle they use as the context in marketing minivans. Seriously, do you really need a 7-seat vehicle with video displays in the seats and stow space so that when Mrs. Suburban Wife is transporting the entire kids soccer team on the way to yoga class(and she's oh so stressed out, BTW), the kids can be silenced by Harry Potter(you know, kids just have watch a movie for the exactly 6 and a half minutes they are in the car) and there is enough junk in the cargo space to entertain an entire village of African orphans.

Exactly while not having a vehicle with kids is possible and can be done. It does make it easier when you have kids. The going from point A-B-C-D is a big factor in that.

I've always found it funny how kids today supposedly need movies in a car. Since I never had that when I grew up. All I ever did was fight with my brother in the back seat

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

But a lot of those trips can be made in one spot with proper transit and urban planning policies. Supermarkets can be near transit stations, etc.

Also at a certain age, kids can take transit to hockey games themselves. I see this in my suburb often, with kids going to the rec centre with their hockey bags on the bus.

But your key comment was about needing to travel outside peak hours. Transit must rise to the challenge, and provide a network that provides travel to anywhere seven days a week.

Yes, Mike. And don't forget about money growing on trees, flowers being made of gumdrops, and dirt actually being cookie crumbs! People also really DO skip joyfully around, whistling show-tunes without a care in the world, always are polite, friendly, and outgoing as well! And when people get sick, they just take a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down, too!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[jcchii]

my family of four switched to one car several years ago when we moved to Oak Park just outside Chicago. I take the L

couldn't wait to dump car 2. It died in the garage due to lack of use