Manitoba Highways

[bomberjet]

Seriously doubt it. The rainy day fund is being spent right now.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Not sure if this is the best time to ask this.
Highway projects after the pandemic, anyone?
I mean, does anyone think we will see a few mega ones after the pandemic is over?
Same old ones on my mind: PTH 100 (complete grade separation), PTH 190, TCH (traffic light removals and twinning), PTH 75 (complete grade separation and Morris bypass).
PS: Interestingly, PTH 32 twinning is happening even right now.

Impossible to say until we get a clearer idea of the full impact of the coronavirus situation. On one hand you could look at it and say that there will be a major need for stimulus/make-work spending that could bode well for infrastructure projects. On the other hand, it's possible that the deficit could be so high that there may not be much left in the cupboard to finance any of this stuff.

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

PS: Interestingly, PTH 32 twinning is happening even right now.

This really isn't a "highway" project. It is all well-within the City of Winkler.

https://www.winklertimes.com/news/lo...hrough-winkler

[esquire]

^ Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. I had to look it up. It's basically a short segment of an urban street, but I suppose it's something.

[plrh]

They are filling in a lot of ditches and making it a more "urban" road. Traffic gets pretty crazy in this area. All those grain trucks stopping and starting.

[YWG-RO]

Canada and the provinces will see deficit budgets never before imagined. I predict MB will be $1 billion and Canada $100 billion this year. It could be double this.

With oil under $30, we can only pray for a V bound to the economy. Even so, governments will be printing money like crazy. Eventually we will almost certainly see stagflation like the 70s.

In a way, inflation may help govt to lower the pain of all that debt; but I don’t see salaries keeping pace. That might be one way we will eventually see more capital highway projects. I think the cost of such projects could come down relative to everything else. The problem is that it will take 5-10 years.

Doubt much will happen anytime soon unfortunately. The money’s already spent and the tap has been turned off.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://imgur.com/FhXUz8k
Edit: New link - https://imgur.com/a/fiPkEF4
I'm trying to map out the route for a 4-lane divided TCH in Northwestern Ontario. Seen here is my proposal for the segment between Kenora and Willard Lake (still quite a distance from even Vermillion Bay). I know this is no longer Manitoba, but I'm simply wondering whether anyone here is familiar with the geology in NWO to guide me. Thanks.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://imgur.com/a/9yWiHor

Edit: Imgur messed up the order of the images.

Around Falcon Lake:
https://imgur.com/9yxyITV

From Falcon Lake to Whiteshell:
https://imgur.com/tr0B6H0

Around Whiteshell:
https://imgur.com/fJeP4eJ

While I was at it, I decided to take a look at how TCH should be twinned from Falcon Lake to the weight scale at Whiteshell as well. Let me know your thoughts!

PS:
Legends -
White colour = new freeway lanes
Black colour = other roads
Red colour = roads to be closed

[Biff]

We are at Falcon and it seems like you are using the existing roadway to the south of the highway as the other divided lanes. This would not work. It is a very popular scenic route between Falcon and West Hawk lake. The majority of all the cottage subdivisions on the north shore use that roadway for access to their cottages (All the red "x's" you have as closures).

I believe what they will have to do as the space is pretty tight through there, is they would likely use either a Jersey Barrier of a cable type divider like they use in Europe.



Here is the site for the Ministry of Transportation in Ontario for their exact routes. https://4lanehighway17kenora.ca/

[Dengler Avenue]

There’s nothing on MB-1 though, and so far M.I.T. isn’t serious about getting it done. That’s why I’m taking it into my own hands. But dang it, no cheapening out... As for barriers, I actually used to think the same too, but now I’d rather reserve it for places with very very tight space (like Lake Superior Shore). I’ll find the quote in a bit.
Edit: Here it is - https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...234240&page=10 #194
Then again, as I half-jokingly told GlassCity, if we can’t even trust M.I.T. with building roads on a flat terrain (cuing Perimeter Highway ), how much less with rugged ones like Canadian Shield? Now that I think about it, I won’t even be surprised if M.I.T. just ends up proceeding with a 4 lane undivided roadway for that stretch of TCH (much like how 4-laning is done in most of Interior B.C.). Ah a super-4...

As for 17, that’s for west of Kenora though. What about between K Town and T Bay? Anyone here familiar with that stretch? I asked Andy6 and he told me he hasn’t been to K Town for a long time. I was gonna ask VANRIDERFAN but I used the wrong word to describe the Armed Forces...... Then I have yet to chat up with Dave from St. Vital.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Recent news on this:

https://www.kenoraminerandnews.com/n...ay-17-twinning

Northern Highways Program:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/hig...-2017-2021.pdf

[bomberjet]

Thanks for the info. I think we went through those same links recently. Shovels in the ground spring 2020, which is now. Anyone seen shovels in the ground?

That MTO program mentioned this would happen already too.

[Dengler Avenue]

except it's not ready to go, as Rickford said a month ago...

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Thanks for the info. I think we went through those same links recently. Shovels in the ground spring 2020, which is now. Anyone seen shovels in the ground?

That MTO program mentioned this would happen already too.

The Southern and Northern Highways Plans 2017-2021 were released by the former Liberal government. They are explicitly still online only for "archival and research purposes":

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/hig...programs.shtml

i.e. Forget everything you read in those documents.

The current government is slowly releasing regional transportation plans. Northern one still not out yet.

As Dengler noted, Northern Development Minister Greg Rickford said that while twinning 17 is a priority, it is not "ready to go" yet:

https://www.kenoraonline.com/local/t...ority-rickford

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

What about between K Town and T Bay? Anyone here familiar with that stretch? I asked Andy6 and he told me he hasn’t been to K Town for a long time. I was gonna ask VANRIDERFAN but I used the wrong word to describe the Armed Forces...... Then I have yet to chat up with Dave from St. Vital.

Not sure if I have much to add. Last time through was five years ago. Whiteshell Provincial Park through Vermilion Bay is Winnipeg's Muskoka with similar terrain and difficulties. The stretch from Kenora to Vermilion Bay was genuinely scary back in the day. Narrow lanes, narrow shoulders, weird curves with protruding rock cuts, you name it. Numerous fatalities due to poor design over the years. Finally, they flew Al Palladini (Minister of Transportation under Mike Harris and as per his car dealership "Any Palladini is a pal of mine") up to Kenora, stuck him in an OPP cruiser and drove him back and forth through that stretch. Appropriately scared out of his mind he ordered a number of fixes. You can see from the satellite view where weird corners were taken out. Scariest for me was a railway underpass. Check out the Streetview in 2009 at this point to compare the current overpass with the tiny former underpass:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.80842...2!8i6656?hl=en

One time I was behind a truck heading for that underpass and saw an oncoming truck. I made sure to slow down!

The next area around Dryden is rolling arable land where highway construction is fairly easy. The last time I was through many of the farms were abandoned and the land was returning to a natural state.

The next looooong stretch is unremarkable bush. Some hills but not a huge issue. One issue is stretches up against railway tracks. Highlights, such as they are, as you get closer to Thunder Bay are the Arctic/Atlantic Watershed sign and the Central/Eastern Time Zone sign.

Once you get to Shabaqua Corners and the high hills around Thunder Bay the issue becomes how to approach Thunder Bay. Vid is likely your man for that.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

As for 17, that’s for west of Kenora though. What about between K Town and T Bay? Anyone here familiar with that stretch? I asked Andy6 and he told me he hasn’t been to K Town for a long time. I was gonna ask VANRIDERFAN but I used the wrong word to describe the Armed Forces...... Then I have yet to chat up with Dave from St. Vital.

Geez, I'm not a fire breathing dragon! I do have a sense of humour unlike TN00!

Between Kenora and Thunder Bay it alternates between fairly level terrain (actual farmland in some spots) and Canadian Shield mofo terrain. I'd say 65/35 Shield. I could be wrong though.

[Dengler Avenue]

Wow thanks for everyone’s input. The description was very thorough.
Don’t worry, I got the part between Kenora and Vermillion Bay preliminarily mapped out in #327. I hope it works. (The emergency detour route will suck though.)
From Shabaqua to T Bay, M.T.O. did propose a freeway a decade ago. However, the link for the project has long expired, so I wonder whether anyone happens to still have the design.
As for asking vid, lol... I don’t think highway is his thing...

[jmt18325]

https://news.gov.mb.ca/news/?archive=&item=48556

Lots of work as part of the restart program.

[esquire]

^ Good stuff, but it's routine maintenance...

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Good stuff, but it's routine maintenance...

Mostly, although some of the roads will be widened to modern standards.