WINNIPEG | Portage Place Redevelopment

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by ReeceZ

No, just some left-leaning lunatic screaming at everyone that all white people in Manitoba are racist, that no other race of human beings are racist except whites and that racism only exists in Manitoba.

Stay tuned.............

Please explain to me how I am a left leaning lunatic... nothing says you are of sound mind like gaslighting and labeling someone to beef up your argument. Did it make you feel better about yourself?? Racism exists on many fronts. I didn’t say ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST. Even though that’s what you took away from my comment. Grow up.

[BAKGUY]

[QUOTE=BAKGUY;8841932] Firstly there are plenty of people who are not racist and many who are not intentionally so. There is much reverse discrimination from all visible minorities and especially the very ones complaining 24/7 of racism . Many things that are not racist are called so to draw attention to when someone or group doesn't like a certain response or action going their way so some like to play the race card... However, Yes, there is racism out there as anywhere and it is disgusting..some just hide behind that term for reasons that are not truly that but looking for 15 minutes of fame so to speak. But yes, reverse discrimination is a real thing

[ReeceZ]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Please explain to me how I am a left leaning lunatic... nothing says you are of sound mind like gaslighting and labeling someone to beef up your argument. Did it make you feel better about yourself?? Racism exists on many fronts. I didn’t say ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST. Even though that’s what you took away from my comment. Grow up.

Your online hysterical theatrics state otherwise.

I browse each provincial subforum from time to time as I post mainly on the Canadian forum. I've seen blatant racist statements, both through direct statements and also indirectly through thinly veiled commentary. You are part of the latter group. I get that you may have experienced racism in life, but your attacks on white people, particulary Manitobans in this case, does not help your cause and also displays your own racism, hatred and stereorypical judgement towards whites.

I have no dog in your race. I just made a comment towards your online statements and behaviour. Now, I presume you will despise what I just stated and go ballistic because I called you out on your own crap, and then proceed to deny it all and insult me personally (which is par for the course in online discussions these days unfortunately). Makes no difference to me. I'm just pointing out what many are thinking but may not feel comfortable saying to you.

FYI, have you ever been to Alberta? I spent much of my life in Edmonton and also working in rural Alberta. Full of bigots, whites and natives alike. So this isn't just a Manitoba problem, as you seemingly enjoy portraying.

[Tyler19944]

When will the deal with the new buyers be finalized?

[DirtWednesday]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Who are they spending time with? I look Caucasian though I'm definitely of mixed heritage, including Naskapi Inuit and I virtually never hear that kind of thing (except of course in comments online but that shit's so bad now that I never read it). I call out blatant racism in a second if I see it.

I mean, we should probably be talking about Portage Place, or whatever it'll be called. I still think it's weird how often race is brought up in an engineering forum, but I guess social issues have to be brought up when discussing urban changing projects.

There are a few examples of "white" presenting people out there, but I'll stick to my own family. A couple decades ago my step dad worked as a maintenance man/carpenter for a big power providing company here in the province. He's Icelandic/Cree and presents heavily as a viking. In many locations where this company exists also exists majority native populations, except for the company of course. So lunch break wasn't fun. He let them know one day what the other half of his genes are. Crickets sound better anyway.

My wife's mother's side is a long time metis family like mine while the other half is Polish. She presents Polish with extra slavic/ojibwa cheeks. She will get it from both sides, but moreso when she was younger and people in her line of work didn't know her background. I don't want to say where she works, she's still there, but like I said, either they don't know she's metis and let the ignorant comments fly (particularly in politically intense times like now), or she's not native enough for certain roles! Which reminds me of when she told me she didn't get the job at NCI, before we met, as an administrative assistant because as she would face the public, she wasn't native enough. Yes this shit flies both ways.

I have a branch of the close family tree peoples that have treaty cards, blonde hair, blue eyes. Guess how much flack they get from all sides... Poor bastards.

Those who don't see what's going on either have the sweet privilege where they don't have to see it or feel it upon themselves, or they've been consciously or ignorantly ignoring it. This is Canada, it's hard to see, easy to miss, because 9 out 10 times it's passive aggressive comments or actions. "Victims" (too big a word?... oh well, let's continue) of passive aggressive racism feel it like death from a 1000 cuts. One passive aggressive comment or action might just push someone over the edge.

Look, I have to have a sense of humour about this. It's ridiculous, I have to laugh at the absurdity of judging ones' character, their value as a human being(!) based on some skin pigment! But I feel so bad for the younger generations that have absolutely no coping mechanisms, so when they hear "your native, natives make up most of Manitoba's criminals." That's like, Gee mister, I'll take that vote of confidence right into my 8x12, FML. Thanks!

I don't know what the answer is to this stupid human condition, but how about we start with having a little f'n respect and compassion for our fellow humans, regardless of where they came from or what they look like!?!

[cheswick]

I question how much of the "discrimination" seen at portage place has to do with skin pigmentation and how much of it is to do with economic well being. I have a family member who is status indian, looks aboriginal. He's a senior excutive with a financial services firm, makes good money, and wears high end suits to work. I would hazard a guess that he would be "discriminated" against far less than a caucasion homeless guy loitering, sipping a coffee in the PP food court.

Also think far too often people throw out the race card for any little thing. Went to a Jets game with an aboriginal friend, she was told you;re not supposed to lean. She says to me, "they assume I never go to Jets games cause I'm Indian". Riiiiight, or maybe they just don't want you leaning.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by cheswick

I question how much of the "discrimination" seen at portage place has to do with skin pigmentation and how much of it is to do with economic well being. I have a family member who is status indian, looks aboriginal. He's a senior excutive with a financial services firm, makes good money, and wears high end suits to work. I would hazard a guess that he would be "discriminated" against far less than a caucasion homeless guy loitering, sipping a coffee in the PP food court.

I have long thought the same thing. Winnipeg is not South Africa ca. 1962. In Johannesburg you could have been the nicest, most successful family and people still wouldn't have wanted you as their neighbour if you weren't the right colour.

Contrast that with Winnipeg... I don't think anyone would complain about having your relative as their neighbour. He's probably a get up and go to work early kind of guy, he has money to keep his house looking nice and neat with a nice car in the driveway, in other words the kind of neighbour every suburbanite wants.

It's funny that no one ever mentions the class angle in all of this.

[Authentic_City]

There is some research from Toronto that suggests upper income Black Canadians are more likely to be subject to police stops than lower income Black folks. This is the so-called DWB (driving while Black) effect. If a police officer see a Black man driving a nice car, they are more likely to make some assumptions and racially profile. This was published as part of the Toronto Star series on racial profiling in Toronto in the early 2000s.
I could see this being the case for upper income Indigenous people in a place like Winnipeg. True, this is not South Africa c.1960, but folks do make assumptions about other people all the time.

All of this discussion does circle back to PP in a way. I'm old enough to remember when this project was built, and it was the centrepiece of a social engineering initiative to not only change downtown, but also reinvigorate the communities already existing downtown around Central Park. The mall was envisaged as a gathering spot for the local communities, and because they closed off Kennedy and Edmonton Streets, the idea was to keep it open so community folks could walk through and not become isolated on the north side of downtown. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some consideration of the local community given the huge public investment that went into the project in the first place, as well as the effect the project had in cutting off Central Park from the rest of Downtown.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Tyler19944

When will the deal with the new buyers be finalized?

Deadline is Thursday, should hopefully know by then. Slim chance Starlight asks for another extension which would likely be granted at this point if necessary.

[Ando]

It’s amazing how many absolute experts on racism are on this board. I think it’s important to recognize that racism is alive and well in many quarters - one needs only to read comments on this board that happen frequently enough - and we should be vigilant to fight against it.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

There is some research from Toronto that suggests upper income Black Canadians are more likely to be subject to police stops than lower income Black folks. This is the so-called DWB (driving while Black) effect. If a police officer see a Black man driving a nice car, they are more likely to make some assumptions and racially profile. This was published as part of the Toronto Star series on racial profiling in Toronto in the early 2000s.
I could see this being the case for upper income Indigenous people in a place like Winnipeg. True, this is not South Africa c.1960, but folks do make assumptions about other people all the time.

All of this discussion does circle back to PP in a way. I'm old enough to remember when this project was built, and it was the centrepiece of a social engineering initiative to not only change downtown, but also reinvigorate the communities already existing downtown around Central Park. The mall was envisaged as a gathering spot for the local communities, and because they closed off Kennedy and Edmonton Streets, the idea was to keep it open so community folks could walk through and not become isolated on the north side of downtown. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some consideration of the local community given the huge public investment that went into the project in the first place, as well as the effect the project had in cutting off Central Park from the rest of Downtown.

I remember the mall being envisaged as an upscale downtown version of Polo Park, not as a community centre.

[Authentic_City]

^Yes, it was envisaged as a mall first and foremost, but the idea was to keep it open it to the community, especially since they were cutting off neighbourhoods north of Portage. But yeah, it was planned as a mall in the centre of the city, albeit with semi functioning street level entrances (quickly abandoned) and pedestrian traffic flowing through via skywalks and via Edmonton street through the centre court area.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Any news on where this is heading? Start date?

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Looks like this is definitely moving forward. Good news for downtown.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6954403/m...portage-place/

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Looks like this is definitely moving forward. Good news for downtown.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6954403/m...portage-place/

That IS good news! Thanks for posting this.

[trueviking]

Great news. Amazing the Portage Place guys convinced them to give that much. Hopefully the program won’t just be used for mega projects for out of town investors. A good downtown affordable housing program would be good.

[buzzg]

This is great news. Important to note though the sale has still not gone through and Starlight has been given an(other) extension to make a decision – this time until August. This is sounding like it has lots of steam behind it and the TIF announcement certainly helps, but let's not get too amped up just yet haha.

[WinCitySparky]

Originally Posted by buzzg

This is great news. Important to note though the sale has still not gone through and Starlight has been given an(other) extension to make a decision – this time until August. This is sounding like it has lots of steam behind it and the TIF announcement certainly helps, but let's not get too amped up just yet haha.

Agreed! Tempered expectations are always wise. The true economic toll of the plague is yet to be fully understood, and it would be unsurprising if an investment of this magnitude were still being considered with full investor enthusiasm.

[hello]

Hopefully this goes through but i hate seeing the tax payers subsidizing the super rich like True North and Starlight. This project is more deserving of a TIF then True North was imo but i'd rather see the city introduce heavier impact fees on greenfield development to help slow sprawl and shift development to inner city neighbourhoods and downtown

[buzzg]

With the PP food court being closed right now, everyone who normally hangs out there has shifted to Air Canada Park. The scene there right now during the day is mindblowing. As you come close it seems like a nice bustling park, but once you get near your realize it's unfortunately become the closest thing many people have to a home right now.