PHILADELPHIA | 3151 Market Street | Schuylkill Yards | 226 FT | 14 FLOORS

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

I'll gladly eat my hat if some foolish company announces a supertall (1000+ ft) for Philadelphia in the next 50 years. Anything after that and you'll need to exhume me and dance on my coffin (I'm giving you permission).

I can assure youll be eating multiple hats in the next 10 years.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

I've been wrong so many times on so many things, that I'd be happy to be wrong here, but I don't see any company needing a supertall ever again in Philly. And we don't have the residential demand to build thin, supertalls for billionaires.

Again, I'd love to be wrong -- but I don't see it - and I'm fine with it.

Did you even read my post? Again, a company doesn't NEED to fill up all of the office space of a Supertall. All you need is one developer with a vision and one company that needs to fill up a 600 foot office tower. Top the 600 foot tall office tower with a 450 foot hotel or apartment or condo building and you got your next Supertall in Philadelphia.

Next 50 years? HAHAHA! Look how much things can change in one year (COVID). How the hell can you possibly predict 50 years out?

From 1989 to today, there have been 3 buildings over 900 feet tall built in Philadelphia. There has been 1 building over 800 feet tall, 3 buildings over 700 feet tall, and 2 buildings over 600 feet tall. 1 ended up being a Supertall. That's just in 32 years!!!...and through some of Philadelphia's worst and least desirable times to boot. Philadelphia didn't begin it's turnaround until the mid-2000s. Philadelphia is heading for some very positive days - so I can't imagine what the future holds, but I'm willing to bet we see another Supertall in the next 15 years in Philadelphia.

I don't think this is out of the question at all. Any tall tower in Philadelphia moving forward is going to be mixed-use. It's not going to be a 1,000+ foot office tower. Its going to be a 1,000+ foot mixed-use building that has a mix of office and hotel or apartments/condos.

Look at FMC Tower - 700+ ft tall and has office space topped by apartments. Look at the Comcast Tech Center - 1,100+ ft tall and has office space topped by a hotel.

^^This is the future of tall towers in Philadelphia.

[Frontst17]

Well put Summers that sums it up, now can you just copy and paste that in the rest of the Philly threads to end these convos going in circles...?

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'm not sure you understand the passage of time.

lol

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I can assure youll be eating multiple hats in the next 10 years.

Might want to block some time off of work for that.

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Look at FMC Tower - 700+ ft tall and has office space topped by apartments. Look at the Comcast Tech Center - 1,100+ ft tall and has office space topped by a hotel.

^^This is the future of tall towers in Philadelphia.

I fully agree we'll see 500-700 foot mixed-use towers. Never disputed that. And I agree that is the future of Tallinn Philly.

1000+ feet.... I don't see it.

I hope to be ridiculed when one actually goes U/C, not just proposed.

[TonyTone]

Ok thank you for your optimism & good faith.

[City Wide]

how did thread change from talking about a 12 story research building into talking about the next 1000' building that might be built anyplace in Philly? Plus about people eating hats.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by City Wide

how did thread change from talking about a 12 story research building into talking about the next 1000' building that might be built anyplace in Philly? Plus about people eating hats.

I haven't even read any of the above discussion, but I will take your word for it with that hat thing.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

I'll gladly eat my hat if some foolish company announces a supertall (1000+ ft) for Philadelphia in the next 50 years. Anything after that and you'll need to exhume me and dance on my coffin (I'm giving you permission).

This is why the thread is talking about hats ^ & 1000+ buildings

Someone believes an 1000+ building will never be built in Philly again.

[kingtut]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

I'll gladly eat my hat if some foolish company announces a supertall (1000+ ft) for Philadelphia in the next 50 years. Anything after that and you'll need to exhume me and dance on my coffin (I'm giving you permission).

What favor hat would you prefer any small change in current circumstances can have a large impact either + or - such as improving high speed train service on Amtrak lessoning the time between Philly and N.Y.C. , decreasing the time from Manhattan to Philly to less than 45 minutes . As Philly is in the center of the New York ,Washington Corridor very attractive selling point . Can't think of many cities that have the same rail service as Philly has right in it's downtown location . I'm sure that's the central point of Schuylkill Yards .

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Can mods start stepping in against people derailing EVERY topic?

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

I fully agree we'll see 500-700 foot mixed-use towers. Never disputed that. And I agree that is the future of Tallinn Philly.

1000+ feet.... I don't see it.

I hope to be ridiculed when one actually goes U/C, not just proposed.

The Comcast Technology Center is the only 1,000 ft+ tower that the city is "blessed" with. Comcast is "God" in Philadelphia and no other company matters.

Originally Posted by kingtut

What favor hat would you prefer any small change in current circumstances can have a large impact either + or - such as improving high speed train service on Amtrak lessoning the time between Philly and N.Y.C. , decreasing the time from Manhattan to Philly to less than 45 minutes . As Philly is in the center of the New York ,Washington Corridor very attractive selling point . Can't think of many cities that have the same rail service as Philly has right in it's downtown location . I'm sure that's the central point of Schuylkill Yards .

It would be a miracle for a 45 min bullet train from Penn Station to 30th St. The current Acela service does the job, as it takes 90 min. Would I love to see the travel time reduced from 90 min to 45-60 min? Absolutely. However, I heard that Amtrak is scrapping the Acela and bringing in new trains called the Avella Liberty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avelia_Liberty), which will have up to 160 mph top service speed, and can go as fast as 220 mph, so your wish will already be fulfilled this year or the next.

A service that I'd love to see make a comeback is the Philadelphia to Pittsburgh service. The current rail infrastructure can't support the Avella Liberty trains, especially going through the Horseshoe Curve. The state and federal gov't can improve on faster train service by constructing four track tunnels between Harrisburg and State College, and another set of four track tunnels between State College and St Mary's Pa and Altoona, and one more between Altoona (Horseshoe Curve) and Pittsburgh. That would help the state economy greatly and even help outlying regions boom and prosper.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

The Comcast Technology Center is the only 1,000 ft+ tower that the city is "blessed" with. Comcast is "God" in Philadelphia and no other company matters.



It would be a miracle for a 45 min bullet train from Penn Station to 30th St. The current Acela service does the job, as it takes 90 min. Would I love to see the travel time reduced from 90 min to 45-60 min? Absolutely. However, I heard that Amtrak is scrapping the Acela and bringing in new trains called the Avella Liberty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avelia_Liberty), which will have up to 160 mph top service speed, and can go as fast as 220 mph, so your wish will already be fulfilled this year or the next.

A service that I'd love to see make a comeback is the Philadelphia to Pittsburgh service. The current rail infrastructure can't support the Avella Liberty trains, especially going through the Horseshoe Curve. The state and federal gov't can improve on faster train service by constructing four track tunnels between Harrisburg and State College, and another set of four track tunnels between State College and St Mary's Pa and Altoona, and one more between Altoona (Horseshoe Curve) and Pittsburgh. That would help the state economy greatly and even help outlying regions boom and prosper.

This is all mostly correct.

However, there is a chance that in June, the Keystone and Pennsylvanian services will be taken over by SEPTA. There is pending legislation that would give control of the line to the state, rather than Amtrak.

I have also heard whispers that part of Biden's massive infrastructure plan was evaluating a high speed corridor between Chicago and Philadelphia via Harrisburg. Not sure how far that'll get, but at least it's being discussed.

The Avelia Liberty trainsets will be doing 165 out of the box, and following track upgrades in New Jersey, will be doing 185. This will cut travel times between NYP and PHL to about 80 mins. The trainsets are equiped with camber tilting, which must be disabled (and actually removed from the trains entirely) should Amtrak want to be able to achieve 200+ mph in operation. This means that the train would be slower in the curves, but faster in the straights. With the track layout in CT, I don't see them getting rid of the camber anytime soon.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

This is all mostly correct.

However, there is a chance that in June, the Keystone and Pennsylvanian services will be taken over by SEPTA. There is pending legislation that would give control of the line to the state, rather than Amtrak.

I have also heard whispers that part of Biden's massive infrastructure plan was evaluating a high speed corridor between Chicago and Philadelphia via Harrisburg. Not sure how far that'll get, but at least it's being discussed.

The Avelia Liberty trainsets will be doing 165 out of the box, and following track upgrades in New Jersey, will be doing 185. This will cut travel times between NYP and PHL to about 80 mins. The trainsets are equiped with camber tilting, which must be disabled (and actually removed from the trains entirely) should Amtrak want to be able to achieve 200+ mph in operation. This means that the train would be slower in the curves, but faster in the straights. With the track layout in CT, I don't see them getting rid of the camber anytime soon.

As someone who loves Chicago, a high speed train there would be fantastic. Don't think I'll see it in my lifetime though, lol.

Re: transit times to NYC, aren't the biggest issues with the infrastructure getting into Manhattan - specifically, the bridges approaching it and the tunnel under the Hudson? I get that getting there faster by speeding through central NJ still saves a few minutes, but it's a shame it feels like we're still not seeing any real movement on the underlying infrastructure issues when they should have been prioritized 10+ years ago. And while I don't think it would change much in practice, it would be really cool to be able to get from 30th Street to Penn Station in under an hour. Honestly, we all know the Acela (and the northeast corridor in general) is already well received and well liked generally, but if they could advertise PHL-NYC transit times of under an hour, I feel like its popularity would explode even more.

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

This is all mostly correct.

However, there is a chance that in June, the Keystone and Pennsylvanian services will be taken over by SEPTA. There is pending legislation that would give control of the line to the state, rather than Amtrak.

Whoa, seriously? What would that mean for continuing service to NYC? I think it currently backs out of 30th street station, right? Would it just terminate at 30th street now, or would it use the septa station instead of amtrak and continue on through the CC connector tunnel? I always though that Amtrak should operate express service between a few cities (Harrisburg, Lancaster Philly, NY) and Septa operate local service.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Skintreesnail

Whoa, seriously? What would that mean for continuing service to NYC? I think it currently backs out of 30th street station, right? Would it just terminate at 30th street now, or would it use the septa station instead of amtrak and continue on through the CC connector tunnel? I always though that Amtrak should operate express service between a few cities (Harrisburg, Lancaster Philly, NY) and Septa operate local service.

I assume trains would terminate at Suburban, on one of the stub-ends. Amtrak ran trains from Harrisburg into Suburban until the 80s.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Would the Commonwealth assuming ownership necessarily lead to service changes? Might not Amtrak continue doing what it is currently doing under contract? I for one would hate to lose my one seat trip to NYC from Ardmore.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Would the Commonwealth assuming ownership necessarily lead to service changes? Might not Amtrak continue doing what it is currently doing under contract? I for one would hate to lose my one seat trip to NYC from Ardmore.

The whole idea is that the state wants to contract someone other than Amtrak to handle trains.

I imagine that the one seat trip to NYC would attempted to be preserved, but I don't quite see how that'd happen. Maybe this is relying on a resumption of NJT West Trenton Service?

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

This is all mostly correct.

However, there is a chance that in June, the Keystone and Pennsylvanian services will be taken over by SEPTA. There is pending legislation that would give control of the line to the state, rather than Amtrak.

I think Amtrak does a better job in maintaining rail service for the Keystone and the Pennsylvania services than a regional transit agency like SEPTA. I don't see SEPTA going all the way out to Harrisburg and Pittsburgh just to maintain service when SEPTA maintains bus and rail service for the five-county SE PA region.

SEPTA could expand it's regional rail system from the five-county area to Lehigh, Northampton, Berks and Lancaster, as each county maintains it's own bus systems. Amtrak is a federal agency, meaning that it's interstate, and I'd want to see Amtrak maintain rail service between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, however, if there's a way to privatize that line, and make it high speed the way they're doing in Florida with the new Brightline, then I'm all for it. Only problem is that the Brightline is only planned to operate in FL and no other state.

Amtrak needs to consider the possibility of tunneling through our mountainous topography if it wants to make statewide high-speed rail a reality as it's just not feasible to operate high-speed rail with the current rail infrastructure between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. You're going to have to create another high speed rail right-of-way in order to not interfere with local and freight rail service. Once high-speed rail gets complete, then we could see high-speed service between Philadelphia to points west such as Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Indianapolis, St Louis, and Chicago. Amtrak just needs to get the high speed game right.

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I have also heard whispers that part of Biden's massive infrastructure plan was evaluating a high speed corridor between Chicago and Philadelphia via Harrisburg. Not sure how far that'll get, but at least it's being discussed.

Let's hope that this becomes a reality. The high-speed rail system in America needs to be vastly expanded from just offering high-speed service from the Northeast, and nowadays FL. I also hear that TX is developing a high-speed rail system from Houston to San Antonio, Austin, and Dallas, which would help the state and I believe that it's going to be privatized, the same way as FL's Brightline. CA, however has a hard time getting the funding from the federal gov't.

If Biden can get this plan going since we already have the Avella Liberty as the rolling stock to replace the Acela, then it would be one of the few things that I can respect out of the man. everything form the election, to the executive orders, to the controversy to his dementia and his lack of accountability have made me lose confidence in the Democrat party, and I say this as a registered Democrat. Let's see what Biden can do, because I'd love for Philadelphia to be a high-speed rail hub for the Northeast.

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The Avelia Liberty trainsets will be doing 165 out of the box, and following track upgrades in New Jersey, will be doing 185. This will cut travel times between NYP and PHL to about 80 mins. The trainsets are equiped with camber tilting, which must be disabled (and actually removed from the trains entirely) should Amtrak want to be able to achieve 200+ mph in operation. This means that the train would be slower in the curves, but faster in the straights. With the track layout in CT, I don't see them getting rid of the camber anytime soon.

I've stated that there needs to be straight line tunnels between Harrisburg and State College, State College to St Mary's PA, State College to Altoona, and from Horseshoe Curve directly to Pittsburgh rather than the current Main Line which runs from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh. From the 19th center onward, it was a testament to technology, however, because of the ever evolving rapid speed of trains, our rail system needs to adapt.

I still say to keep the Main Line and provide heritage trains from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh while the Amtrak service will shift to the high speed tunnels. Since PA is very mountainous compared to OH, IN, IL, MI, and MO, I'm assuming that this project if going to cost no more than up to a trillion dollars just to bore and construct the rail tunnels statewide and I'm only estimating. I'm hoping that the total cost of the tunnels would be half that cost,