Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Makid]

With all of the news and such, I thought it would be fun to look at the real likelihood of SLC breaking its own developmental history. By this I mean that the City has basically built 1 or 2 300'+ buildings a decade since 1970.

This will be changing with the current list of known 300'+ buildings, which are really 350'+ buildings.

1. Tower 8 (Under Construction)
2. Convention Center Hotel
3. Block 67 phase 2 (2025 tentative start date)
4. Held development (370 Millennium - possibly seeing a height increase)
5. Utah Theater tower

On top of these, there are a few more that have a good to decent chance to be built as well:

6. CCR/PRI (Estimated around 2024 currently but will be based on occupancy of Tower 8 and commercial developments)
7. CCR/PRI (Estimated around 2028)
8. APS Hotel/Mixed Use development

With all of these known at some level and many more that are unknown, it is highly unlikely that there will only be 2, let alone 3, 300' or taller towers built/completed in the 2020's.

[Utah_Dave]

Orlando, if you have the time, can you do a east facing mock up of the potential skyline?

Thanks for what you have posted already too!

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Utah_Dave

Orlando, if you have the time, can you do a east facing mock up of the potential skyline?

Thanks for what you have posted already too!

Here's one from the southwest also:

[Utah_Dave]

Haha, Orlando your awesome!

[wrendog]

Looking good, but man that skyline is screaming for a 500 footer

[Makid]

Speaking of wishing it was taller, I wonder if anyone from the City has reached out to ask why buildings are all hovering at or around the 375' mark.

I would be curious what the reasons are. If there are items that the City could improve upon, such as time to get through the Planning (CBDR) process, Costs, etc..

I would really be interested to see if there is something that is perhaps stopping the developers from going taller that could be easily addressed by the City.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Makid

Speaking of wishing it was taller, I wonder if anyone from the City has reached out to ask why buildings are all hovering at or around the 375' mark.

I would be curious what the reasons are. If there are items that the City could improve upon, such as time to get through the Planning (CBDR) process, Costs, etc..

I would really be interested to see if there is something that is perhaps stopping the developers from going taller that could be easily addressed by the City.

I think the design review process in SLC is too minimal, actually. (Though, I'm sure it's more stringent than Lehi). So, I don't think it's the cause.

I think it has to do with 1) demand and 2)some of their land-use requirements, ie. tower width requirements. I've stated on here before that I think they need to create width requirements. The proposed CCH and Tower 8 are very wide, and that's because of the height requirements outside of the CBD( West Temple to State_, but if there were max. width requirements, the developers could argue that they need to go taller to be practical or it would incentivize developers to build more slimmer towers and taller ones in the CBD. American Stores is super wide and could have been a 500 footer. But, maybe they didn't want to dwarf the One Utah Center tower. But, totally agree that downtown SLC needs a 500 footer, or at least a 450 footer. Our skyline is too squat. Another reason why I think SLC's towers are wide is because the large city blocks allow for that. Portland and Seattle have smaller blocks which require slimmer and taller towers.

Regarding demand, there is the demand. SLC area is one of the highest investment areas for development for its size, yet most of it is currently being siphoned away from downtown by the frenzy of stand-alone office development down in Lehi and south Salt Lake Valley. SLC and the region need to be more persuasive in getting all of those investors and developers to slow down all that rampant development down there, and build up the center of the region, downtown SLC. 'If you build it, they will come' mentality needs to be encouraged to all those national developers who visit Salt Lake wanting to develop in downtown but are discouraged by the local brokers and all the activity happening down in Lehi. Can you imagine the skyline we would be seeing in downtown if half of the development in Lehi was happening in downtown SLC? We would have 3 or 4 highrises under construction right now.

[Utah_Dave]

In my opinion it’s going to take a company or an entity like the church who wants to make a statement to build a 500 ft tower. If we rely on demand alone it will be a while before we get something close to 500 ft. I figure Zions Bank, the church or a high profile tech company are our best bet for a new tallest. Maybe Held Propeties or the APS could be an option too but that’s may be too tall a task for those projects.

[bob rulz]

Isn't 375' the limit at which a CBSDR is triggered in the D1 zone?

I also agree that large blocks and few or no restrictions on building widths lead to fatter buildings naturally.

Originally Posted by Makid

6. CCR/PRI (Estimated around 2024 currently but will be based on occupancy of Tower 8 and commercial developments)
7. CCR/PRI (Estimated around 2028)

Which locations are these two?

[Makid]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Isn't 375' the limit at which a CBSDR is triggered in the D1 zone?

I also agree that large blocks and few or no restrictions on building widths lead to fatter buildings naturally.



Which locations are these two?

Yes, 375' is the CBDR height for the D1 block corners. It is 100' for D1 mid-block.

As for the 2 CCR/PRI buildings, I am unable provide their locations due to not wanting to cause problems for my internal source. Also, they are just tentative dates and can fluctuate based on the market.

I can say that 1 will be guaranteed for Commercial tenants and the other hasn't been finalized. I should note that these are outside of the CCC area and don't include the Cascade and the planned residential building (100' - 350') east of Harmons on 1st South.

[jedikermit]

I know the plans for that tower are entirely speculative, but I love the Pantages Park built on top of the parking garage for some additional open space. A good spot for it, a good solution that hides yet another garage. And I like that it ends up elevated above the level of the Main Street. Could be a very cool space.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Makid

Yes, 375' is the CBDR height for the D1 block corners. It is 100' for D1 mid-block.

As for the 2 CCR/PRI buildings, I am unable provide their locations due to not wanting to cause problems for my internal source. Also, they are just tentative dates and can fluctuate based on the market.

I can say that 1 will be guaranteed for Commercial tenants and the other hasn't been finalized. I should note that these are outside of the CCC area and don't include the Cascade and the planned residential building (100' - 350') east of Harmons on 1st South.

What's the status of Cascade and the planned residential development east of Harmons?

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Orlando

What's the status of Cascade and the planned residential development east of Harmons?

The Cascade, I have heard, is waiting for the Condo market to rebound as they don't want to build it as Apartments first.

The residential development east of Harmons is waiting for Liberty Sky. The final design and height of the project will be based on how well Liberty Sky is absorbed and how quickly it fills up.

My understanding is there is a "Gentleman's Agreement" regarding Boyer and CCR. This is why Tower 8 was built and 151s became Liberty Sky.

The agreement was to allow each project to be completed, 1 commercial and 1 residential, before either group begins looking at another project.

This is also how Cowboy Partners got involved. They have an agreement with CCR as partners on the residential project east of Harmons. CCR offered to delay their residential project so that Boyer could build Liberty Sky with Cowboy Partners involved there so that CCR could focus on Tower 8 as Boyer wasn't able to move forward with 151s due to Goldman adding 111s Main as an office.

Tower 8 was the priority for CCR for a few reasons, 1 being the LDS Church portion of the project. This is because offices are generally empty on Sundays.


This is as much as information that I can provide at this time but hopefully it helps.

[airhero]

KIC started the design review application for "Kensington Tower." This is the apartment building on the Carl's Jr. site. Keep your eyes open for attachments!

https://citizenportal.slcgov.com/Cit...howInspection=

[Orlando]

HKS is the architect apparently. I have't been impressed with their tower proposals for SLC, ie. APS Tower proposal and Air Urban Center. I'm hoping that it will be better than those.


Also, it doesn't look like Kensington has the portfolio for a tower of this kind, and in Utah of all places. http://www.kicboston.com/real-estate/properties/
I did see them do soil borings, though, So, at least they are serious about it, albeit, inexperienced, just like almost all of the developers we see trying to do something ambitious in downtown, with the exception of PRI/CCRI.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Also, it doesn't look like Kensington has the portfolio for a tower of this kind, and in Utah of all places. http://www.kicboston.com/real-estate/properties/
I did see them do soil borings, though, So, at least they are serious about it, albeit, inexperienced, just like almost all of the developers we see trying to do something ambitious in downtown, with the exception of PRI/CCRI.

Looking at the Planning Commission petition type, they are requesting a Design Review.

As the location is a corner lot in the D1, the only time a design review is needed is for a design over 375' or under 100'. With their portfolio, I am really dreading and expecting something between 75' and 90'.

I know that there have been reports of a 23 story residential building here but I don't see how that would require a design review for a corner lot.

I hope I am wrong and they have plans and funding to build over the 375' level that the petition type suggests.

[Orpheum]

Originally Posted by stayinginformed

Here is what was in the transit thread: They also approved a change in contract with Stantec Architecture regarding the new bus servicing building (aka Depot District Clean Fuels Tech Center). UTA had been saying all along that they would be re-purposing the old Rio Grande Locomotive Maintenance building into the new center, but apparently the $10 million price tag changed their mind. They'll be razing all the Rio Grande buildings west of Salt Lake Central (actually they already started towards the end of July) and just build completely new.

#$@&!!!!!!!!

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Makid

Looking at the Planning Commission petition type, they are requesting a Design Review.

As the location is a corner lot in the D1, the only time a design review is needed is for a design over 375' or under 100'. With their portfolio, I am really dreading and expecting something between 75' and 90'.

I know that there have been reports of a 23 story residential building here but I don't see how that would require a design review for a corner lot.

I hope I am wrong and they have plans and funding to build over the 375' level that the petition type suggests.

They should require Design Review for all buildings in downtown. It's crazy that they only require it if it passes a height limit.

I was assuming that this was going to be a tower.

[UrbanFlaneur]

Originally Posted by Makid

Looking at the Planning Commission petition type, they are requesting a Design Review.

As the location is a corner lot in the D1, the only time a design review is needed is for a design over 375' or under 100'. With their portfolio, I am really dreading and expecting something between 75' and 90'.

I know that there have been reports of a 23 story residential building here but I don't see how that would require a design review for a corner lot.

I hope I am wrong and they have plans and funding to build over the 375' level that the petition type suggests.

Take this one with a grain of salt, but for what it's worth, I spoke with someone a few weeks ago - who seems to be in the know about these things - who stated the Kensington Tower is slated to be 38 stories. This is definitely unsubstantiated, but here's hoping.

[gusam26]