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  #101  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 1:40 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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It’s just compounding a density problem
WTF?!! AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!

The DENSITY PROBLEM is that we don't have enough of it you @#$%ing moron.
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  #102  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 2:05 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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Seriously... isn't this the thing that HRMbD was supposed to prevent? It should not be that vocal individuals and a counsellor get to derail a project!!!!!
It should be that if you meet the planning guidelines for height in an area, then that should be all that is required with respect to height. Everyone had the chance to democratically submit their input at HRMbD, so people shouldn't be allowed to revisit the criteria on a case-by-case basis.

Am I missing something?? Does this district fall outside the HRMbD area??
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  #103  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 2:19 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
Seriously... isn't this the thing that HRMbD was supposed to prevent? It should not be that vocal individuals and a counsellor get to derail a project!!!!!
It should be that if you meet the planning guidelines for height in an area, then that should be all that is required with respect to height. Everyone had the chance to democratically submit their input at HRMbD, so people shouldn't be allowed to revisit the criteria on a case-by-case basis.

Am I missing something?? Does this district fall outside the HRMbD area??
It is outside of the HRMbD area - it focused mainly on the downtown core of Halifax.

This is the typical response we get in some of the inner city communities of Calgary as density comes. I wouldn't sweat it - it's typical and it will become a louder voice as Halifax grows. The simple fact of the matter is change is 'ah coming' and you can try to stand in the way of that train, but as Robin Williams once said: "It's like putting gauze in front of a semi and say - come on through" - it's not going to stop it.

They can appeal the eventual decision all they want, but as volunteer groups - if more development keeps coming; they won't be able to keep pace.
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  #104  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 3:36 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
It is outside of the HRMbD area - it focused mainly on the downtown core of Halifax.

This is the typical response we get in some of the inner city communities of Calgary as density comes. I wouldn't sweat it - it's typical and it will become a louder voice as Halifax grows. The simple fact of the matter is change is 'ah coming' and you can try to stand in the way of that train, but as Robin Williams once said: "It's like putting gauze in front of a semi and say - come on through" - it's not going to stop it.

They can appeal the eventual decision all they want, but as volunteer groups - if more development keeps coming; they won't be able to keep pace.
I will refrain from saying what Robin Williams was really describing though (if memory serves). LOL I think my all time favourite of his though was his description of golf. It is f'ing hilarious!
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  #105  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 3:56 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
I will refrain from saying what Robin Williams was really describing though (if memory serves). LOL I think my all time favourite of his though was his description of golf. It is f'ing hilarious!
YOu are on the right track about the first RW comment.

One of the changes which was passed as part of Plan It Calgary was the creation of higher density urban corridors - one of which has been Elbow Drive. It's a nice 4 lane street (no boulevard) that runs (for the most part) near or along the Elbow River. The road goes through some of Calgary's richest communities like Elboya, Britannia, etc.

These are areas where the idea of high density is a 3 storey walk up. Yet these are going to become higher density urban corridors with mixed use. I did a land use in this area for townhousing that could go up to 12m tall and they went nuts over 22 units (which could've been up to 33).

These nimbys don't get it and neither does the councilor. The fact that you start having taller buildings leads to changes of context. A storey leads to a 4 storey. 4 leads to 7. 7 leads to 10; 10 to 15 (etc.). Now the 10 to 15 is a bit of a stretch, might be more like 10 to 12 - but still you get the point.
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  #106  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 7:51 PM
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Remember that the Herald tries to find the craziest person it can whenever it writes an article like that.

It wouldn't be so bad to have a 7 storey building on that site but I also think they'd win whatever appeals are brought forward.

Problem is, there's going to be an empty lot on Gottingen for a few years, but that's what I expected...
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  #107  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 9:00 PM
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I was waiting for this to be posted. It is disappointing but not surprising. You have an idiot of a councillor in Blumentrhal who was against this right from the start. And then you have idiots like McCleave who want the site to be a park -- when you have a playground directly across the street and the park in front of the Hydrostone a stone's throw away. It is beyond ridiculous. I hope Empire comes back with a 14-storey proposal.
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  #108  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 9:08 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Remember that the Herald tries to find the craziest person it can whenever it writes an article like that.

It wouldn't be so bad to have a 7 storey building on that site but I also think they'd win whatever appeals are brought forward.

Problem is, there's going to be an empty lot on Gottingen for a few years, but that's what I expected...
Yet another example of where my comment about HRM staff drawing a line and fighting for things comes into play. I'd be willing to accept 8 to 9 storeys; that's fine. But the fight needs to be had to get something approved. I would say; try to find a balanced approach that seems reasonable. The main focus is to get council to accept it; regardless of the local councillor's idea. If it's reasonable; it should be defendable at URB.

They also need to do an overall plan in the area - tough thing tho, since you will have a lot of people determined for nothing. My approach would be; that's not an option and this is your chance to have input on what could be so that it's reasonable. If you can't get passed the no development is not an option - then you aren't welcome. It's a dialogue to talk about the future and unless you are going to buy all the lots - it's coming.
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  #109  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 9:10 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I was waiting for this to be posted. It is disappointing but not surprising. You have an idiot of a councillor in Blumentrhal who was against this right from the start. And then you have idiots like McCleave who want the site to be a park -- when you have a playground directly across the street and the park in front of the Hydrostone a stone's throw away. It is beyond ridiculous. I hope Empire comes back with a 14-storey proposal.
You know this is a public application with a case number.
If people feel strongly - put it in an email or a letter and copy Jerry Blumenthal. I'd just say keep it respectful and stick to the planning matters.
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  #110  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 11:05 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Apparently the Caribean restaurant nearby is going to be rezoned. As I've suggested on the CBC website forum; this may be the opportunity for HRM staff to look at the area from a comprehensive perspective and dialogue with residents to form a reasonable plan to growth in the area (keeping in mind that the principle of no growth isn't an option).
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  #111  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2010, 11:26 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Apparently the Caribean restaurant nearby is going to be rezoned. As I've suggested on the CBC website forum; this may be the opportunity for HRM staff to look at the area from a comprehensive perspective and dialogue with residents to form a reasonable plan to growth in the area (keeping in mind that the principle of no growth isn't an option).
But its hard to have the conversation with igorant people who will say the same things... this is classic NIMBY. The actual heights are almost a perfect step up except for 2 floors, 5 - 7 - 11.

I can't stand these kind of statements: Why does it have to be built here? It shouldn't be that tall... we should not allow development.

They are saying no growth in the way they say they are anti density... because otherwise you don't get the proper type of growth.

What will be interesting is to see if these people have as much clout as the downtown/southender heritage mafia.
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  #112  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2010, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
You know this is a public application with a case number.
If people feel strongly - put it in an email or a letter and copy Jerry Blumenthal. I'd just say keep it respectful and stick to the planning matters.
His the councilor for my area and I know will not be voting for him next time if I'm still in this district because of his stance on this and the proposed roundabout. He seems to side with whatever the NINBYS want and I think it is pathetic. I have emailed him a few times about these things without much of reponse because he only listens to NINBYS.
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  #113  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2010, 4:44 AM
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His the councilor for my area and I know will not be voting for him next time if I'm still in this district because of his stance on this and the proposed roundabout. He seems to side with whatever the NINBYS want and I think it is pathetic. I have emailed him a few times about these things without much of reponse because he only listens to NINBYS.
That's pretty common with councillors. If you email them information/opinion that goes against what they think is right then they will not respond. Basically I think MOST councillors are stubborn.

I'm just glad most of the time that I live in a community where everybody agrees that comprimises can be effective.
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  #114  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2010, 5:02 AM
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That's pretty common with councillors. If you email them information/opinion that goes against what they think is right then they will not respond. Basically I think MOST councillors are stubborn.
I've seen "everybody was against it" in the paper from councillors before after I'd personally sent them emails in support of a project. Haven't bothered emailing them for 10 years or so.
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  #115  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dmajackson View Post
That's pretty common with councillors. If you email them information/opinion that goes against what they think is right then they will not respond. Basically I think MOST councillors are stubborn.

I'm just glad most of the time that I live in a community where everybody agrees that comprimises can be effective.
If 51 out of a hundred are against most councillors are therefore against. "it's what the people want" translated to I can save my job by going with the masses.
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  #116  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2010, 2:57 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Originally Posted by Empire View Post
If 51 out of a hundred are against most councillors are therefore against. "it's what the people want" translated to I can save my job by going with the masses.
To paraphrase Empire...
"If 10 noisy out of a hundred quiet are against most councilors are therefore against."
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  #117  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2010, 3:20 PM
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To paraphrase Empire...
"If 10 noisy out of a hundred quiet are against most councilors are therefore against."
Yup..they onlt seem to listen to the vocal minority
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  #118  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2010, 3:43 PM
sdm sdm is offline
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Yup..they onlt seem to listen to the vocal minority
yup totally sad as this has yet to even reach a public hearing and the councilor has a predetermined stance.

There is nothing wrong with this development, 10 stories is a low rise at best.
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  #119  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2010, 3:46 PM
sdm sdm is offline
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Remember that the Herald tries to find the craziest person it can whenever it writes an article like that.

It wouldn't be so bad to have a 7 storey building on that site but I also think they'd win whatever appeals are brought forward.

Problem is, there's going to be an empty lot on Gottingen for a few years, but that's what I expected...
Someone should do the economics evaluation on this reduction in size. Loss of construction business, and the loss of tax revenue from a bigger building.

This is what i don't understand, council loves to spend, and spend out of control. Why not allow more larger developments, they would in turn increase the amount they could spend. Is it me or are they not thinking?
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  #120  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2010, 8:31 PM
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Is it me or are they not thinking?
Most of them seem to have little or no clue about the big picture. Another problem is that they each have their pet projects, and when you have 23 of those you end up with a lot of spending. I'm guessing a smaller council would actually help significantly with that - each could periodically have the token project in his or her district and we'd only have to fund 7 or 9 of them.
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