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  #161  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2010, 3:24 PM
twofiftyfive twofiftyfive is offline
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Anyone know what "Investments include upgrading Portland’s Union Station" specifically refers to?
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  #162  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2010, 4:58 PM
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Originally Posted by twofiftyfive View Post
Anyone know what "Investments include upgrading Portland’s Union Station" specifically refers to?
I read it was about a 7 million dollar renovation...so mostly structural upgrades and exterior and interior refinishing.
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  #163  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2010, 5:32 PM
twofiftyfive twofiftyfive is offline
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I found this in a pdf on the ODOT website:

Quote:
Make permanent structural repairs to the station building as part of a general rehabilitation to bring the structure into a good state of repair and in conformity with seismic requirements. Upgrade existing trackage and construct a sixth track to accommodate through freight traffic now routed via Track 5. Track 5 would then be available for use as a support track for increasing service frequency of passenger trains.
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  #164  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2010, 6:14 PM
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In the Oregonian today they mentioned the majority of the funds would go to replace the leaky roof, but the building needs $30-$40M in upgrades.
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  #165  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2010, 6:30 PM
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Taken from the Philopdx link posted on pg. 8.

Quote:
Summary of Corridor Investments
Improvements will be made to the corridor using funds from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) to provide rail passengers in the Pacific Northwest with faster, more reliable and more frequent service.

Seattle - Portland: Two additional daily round trips will be added between Seattle and Portland, for a total six; travel time will be reduced by at least 5 percent; and on-time performance will increase substantially, from 62 to 88 percent. Major construction projects include building bypass tracks to allow for increased train frequency and multiple upgrades to existing track and signal systems. Several safety-related projects will also be funded, including grade separations, positive train control, and seismic retrofits to Seattle’s historic King Street Station.
Correct me if I am wrong but:
Current time= ~3 1/2 hrs or 210 minutes
~5%= 10.5 minutes

So the end product will save at least a whopping 10 minutes?
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  #166  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2010, 4:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Okstate View Post
Taken from the Philopdx link posted on pg. 8.



Correct me if I am wrong but:
Current time= ~3 1/2 hrs or 210 minutes
~5%= 10.5 minutes

So the end product will save at least a whopping 10 minutes?
Every minute counts, that is why people speed. Going 10 over the speed limit doesnt really get you anywhere that much faster...other than shaving off a few minutes of time.

But seriously, I hope these upgrades will be more like the foundation work for highspeed rail between the two cities.
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  #167  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2010, 5:18 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okstate View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but:
Current time= ~3 1/2 hrs or 210 minutes
~5%= 10.5 minutes

So the end product will save at least a whopping 10 minutes?
This blog has a pretty good discussion about the project. Key is the increase of on-time performance from 62% to 88%

We're also getting 2 more round-trips from Seattle to Portland, for a total of 6 a day + the Coast Starlate. New Talgo trains ain't cheap!

http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/0...-in-hsr-funds/


Talgo XXI 160 mph high speed tilting trains:

image courtesy of wikimedia commons
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  #168  
Old Posted May 29, 2010, 6:27 PM
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http://blog.oregonlive.com/lake_oswe...residents.html

Possible high-speed rail line through Lake Oswego worries residents

By Yuxing Zheng, The Oregonian

May 29, 2010, 8:00AM


Randy L. Rasmussen/The Oregonian

Shelley Lorenzen waits for the school bus to pick up her children, Claire and Liam Brown, both 11, at the intersection of North Shore Road and Mulligan Lane on the north side of Lake Oswego. The Oregon Department of Transportation is considering the nearby rail line for a possible high-speed train, which Lorenzen fears could make ungated crossings such as the one by the bus stop unsafe for neighborhood families.LAKE OSWEGO -- Freight trains have rolled through Shelley Lorenzen's quiet residential neighborhood for years, to the point that her family has adjusted to the middle-of-the-night rumblings.

But the state's consideration of a possible high-speed rail line linking Portland and Eugene with 12 daily trips straight through the heart of Lake Oswego and its northside residential neighborhoods worries Lorenzen and a number of neighbors.

"The first thing when people talk to me is, 'Oh, my God, more trains? More congestion? More noise, more safety issues?'" Lorenzen said. "If you have more trains running through your neighborhood, those three reasons also add up to lower property values."


Randy L. Rasmussen/The Oregonian

ODOT has proposed up to 12 daily high-speed train trips connecting Portland and Eugene, possibly on the line running through Lake Oswego. Lorenzen wants to see ODOT consider other route alignments for high-speed rail, including constructing new lines. "All of a sudden, you'll have a lot of whistling and train noise, in exchange for what?" Lorenzen asked. "As a community, Lake Oswego wouldn't have a station here. It'd just be a pass-through. For Lake Oswego, it'd just be a downside."High-speed trains, which would replace Amtrak's current trains, could reach speeds of at least 110 mph, which isn't possible now north of Wilsonville. They would reduce the travel time between Portland and Eugene to two hours, saving about half an hour from today's train-travel time. The state also hopes to increase on-time performance from Amtrak's current 68 percent to at least 95 percent by 2030.

The Oregon Department of Transportation hopes to tap into unprecedented levels of federal funding made available recently to develop the nation's high-speed rail lines, including the stretch connecting Eugene and Portland. ODOT is in the midst of a series of open-house meetings in communities to inform residents about the possibilities.

In Oregon, Amtrak's Cascades route now travels south from Portland's Union Station through Milwaukie and Oregon City on Union Pacific tracks. The other existing railroad is the Oregon Electric alignment, which travels across two of Lake Oswego's busiest main roads: State Street in downtown and Boones Ferry Road on the city's western side.

The trains also would speed through the entire horizontal midsection of the city, through tree-lined neighborhoods filled with single-family homes.

Lorenzen's children, Claire and Liam Brown, both 11, catch their school bus next to the rail crossing by North Shore Road and Mulligan Lane.

"I have small children, and for their safety and the general crossing safety, I'm sure they would have to do something to improve these crossings right now," said Lorenzen, vice chairwoman of the Country Club-North Shore Neighborhood Association. "This crossing we live near has no signal, no gates."

High-speed rail
What: The Oregon Department of Transportation is hosting a series of open houses about the state's goals for high-speed rail between Eugene and Portland. The next open house is in Lake Oswego.
When: 4:30 to 6:30 p.m. Thursday
Where: Council Chambers, Lake Oswego City Hall, 380 A Ave.
Information: Kathy Holmes, ODOT, 503-986-4321, kathy.c.
holmes@odot.state.or.us

ODOT about a week ago applied for a $4 million federal grant to fund a portion of the $10 million, two-year analysis of alternatives, said Betsy Imholt, the department's rail-study director. The state would pick up the remainder of the cost if it receives the federal grant.

The study is a required part of the decision-making process and would evaluate the two existing lines as well as possible alternative alignments that do not exist today. ODOT hopes to begin the study by the end of the year and has hired some contractors for the project, Imholt said.

"Our position now is that everything is on the table," Imholt said. "The service goals will totally inform the alignment options. If folks want to go between Eugene and Portland in an hour and not stop anywhere in between, that's a totally different alignment than what we have today."

Replacing tracks on existing rail beds to suit high-speed rail would cost about $1 million per mile. Building new tracks on a new bed could cost as much as $2.5 million per mile.

Even if the state ultimately wins federal money for the project, the state still would need to pony up about $400 million to see the project become reality.

But now is the time to pursue high-speed rail since federal money has become available, Imholt said.

"Now we have the opportunity to not just do one incremental change after another, but we have the chance to really revision what we want this thing to look like," she said.

For now, Lake Oswego residents just want to ensure their voice is heard as decisions are being made, said Joy Strull, treasurer of the Evergreen Neighborhood Association, whose family lives next to the tracks.

"For the most part, what you will find is that the neighborhood is supportive of the concept," Strull said. "It's the concept of whether this is the right place for it when you're talking about an urban neighborhood that's got this kind of density."

-- Yuxing Zheng


© 2010 OregonLive.com. All rights reserved.
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  #169  
Old Posted May 29, 2010, 6:30 PM
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one thing this article doesn't make clear is that - this is a hunch i have - those trains won't be doing any 110mph through lake oswego; they would get up to that speed between wilsonville and salem and on to eugene. also, wouldn't it be cheaper, in terms of years of lawsuits that LO residents will almost certainly file, to just bite the bullet and use the UP tracks? i know one of the issues with the UP tracks is that it would be difficult to double track it between OC and Canby, but i wouldn't if it still wouldn't be cheaper (and faster to implement) than fighting LO.
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  #170  
Old Posted May 29, 2010, 8:07 PM
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These newspaper articles are worthless.. ungated crossings like the one mentioned would be improved with gates and bells when trains approach if that route was selected. Sure it's a little bit of noise, but motorcycles, trucks and cars make noise too..

I doubt train speeds through Lake Oswego would exceed 50mph, if that. There are too many curves to achieve anything close to 90mph around there..

That all said, I'd prefer a new alignment through the Willamette Valley that can achieve some serious speeds and grade separated crossings, similar to a highway. The current proposal is just half-asked. If the goal is to take cars off I-5, then they need much faster travel times.
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  #171  
Old Posted May 31, 2010, 7:55 PM
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I'm sorry, but what a stupid proposal. High speed rail to Eugene? Why?
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  #172  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2010, 6:50 PM
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^ well, for mobility... Odot has been actively utilyzing rail for more than 30 years, and they don't plan on stopping. At the Portland HSR open house they had a lot to say about Pdx to Eugene as far as the varying benefits. The current study is geared very realistically; increase on-time performance, decrease travel time, provide alternatives to auto trips, increase freight rail capacity, and maintain Oregon's long time focus on reducing sprawl and our environment (both conservatives and liberals here want this). No, our Cascades trains will not match the 125-250 mph main lines in Europe, Japan or China, but an increase to 90-110 mph is a modest and practical goal. The new alignment, whether double tracking the UP or upgrading the single track OE, will have the same performance although the OE is cheaper and desired by UP and ODOT. The new lines will actually be safer and, get this, quieter for Milwaukie and Lake O residents as the upgrades will make them "quiet zones" and the new motion sensor technology allows the gates to be down for less time allowing trains to actually go faster through urban areas (like 60-90 through Milwaukie, meaning gates are down for a mile long freight train for roughly 70-90 secs without having to blow horns!) If you've ever ridden the TGV or ICE you know how safe and quiet they are. Anyway, I for one am sold on the Oregon line at 110 mph, I just hope that PDX to SEA will eventually be grade and freight separated to 150 or 200 mph (don't be fooled by world record speeds, look at operational speeds for foriegn HSR and note that very few actually run faster than 200).
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  #173  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2010, 7:22 PM
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If we ever want true high speed rail we need to build the right infrastructure the first time. That would be a new alignment along I5.
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  #174  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2010, 11:13 PM
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^ I used to think that way, but after doing some research at PSU and attending the ODOT HSR open house I no longer feel that is necessary or possible at this time. The ridership, population centers and culture are not here... yet (if ever)... a 100 mile FRA class 9 standard (up to 200 mph) new ROW would cost roughly $10-20 billion, whereas a 100 mile class 5 or 6 (90 or 110 mph respectively) railway would cost $1-2 billion. Oregon is a poor state, and is expecting major cuts for the next few years.

Anyway, my 2 cents...

Last edited by NJD; Jun 1, 2010 at 11:30 PM.
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  #175  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2010, 11:34 PM
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Europe and parts of Asia are ideal for high-speed rail because of their high population densities. Rail infrastructure is expensive, so a strong tax base and user base is necessary. We have neither to support a line to Eugene. Seattle maybe, but not Eugene.

Consider places where high-speed rail is common: France is twice the size of Oregon, but home to 60 million people. Germany is slightly smaller, but home to 80 million people The entire nation of Japan is the size of California--our most populous state--but home to nearly 130 million.

A high speed rail line linking Portland (metro population 2,241,841) and Seattle (metro population 3,424,361) would make more sense. But to spend such a tremendous amount of money linking Portland to Eugene-- a third-tier city with little economic infrastructure--is just silly. I'm all for train travel, but it needs to make economic sense.

Besides, who would ever be in a hurry to get to Eugene unless there were a football game.
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  #176  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2010, 12:40 AM
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What's more the destination city has to one you can get around in without using a car or you've defeated the purpose of using the train in the first place, especially when we're talking 90 miles to Eugene.
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  #177  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2010, 3:05 PM
PDX City-State PDX City-State is offline
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I really think we should sock more money into the creation and retention of business in Portland. There are more talented, underemployed people here than anywhere I've ever lived. It's really sad.
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  #178  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDX City-State View Post
Consider places where high-speed rail is common: France is twice the size of Oregon, but home to 60 million people. Germany is slightly smaller, but home to 80 million people The entire nation of Japan is the size of California--our most populous state--but home to nearly 130 million.
This would be a stronger point if anyone was proposing a TGV style network radiating out of Portland with branches to Baker City, Bend, Medford, Astoria and Coos Bay. But they're not. ODOT are talking about upgrading 100 miles of line that runs through the Willamette Valley, which is home to most of Oregon's population.

I actually think the NIMBY in the news articles above has a point when she says "As a community, Lake Oswego wouldn't have a station here". What would be really smart is if they can achieve both high(er) speed trains to Salem and Eugene, while also building a commuter network to downtown Portland, serving Wilsonville, Tualatin, Lake Oswego and possibly Vancouver, WA.
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  #179  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 4:42 PM
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^ Good point Macc, I fear WES will leave a bad taste in Trimet's mouth for decades, so I hope ODOT can bridge the commuter rail-intercity rail divide for Lake O and also Oregon City (if they move the south metro Amtrak Cascades station to Tualitan...)

^^ I know, I know... sounds good in a market like today PDX CityState , but Portland has a horrid track record getting involved in the job/business market, usually doing more harm than good, and as a previous Portland business owner and a Business School graduate I can safely say that the city is not all-that anti-business as people say it is. This city is all about livability not hand-outs to business, which is why so many creatives are here in the first place, and regardless they would be out of work anywhere USA right now... again, just my opinion.
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  #180  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 5:00 PM
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High Speed Rail

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDX City-State View Post
I'm sorry, but what a stupid proposal. High speed rail to Eugene? Why?
You're posts make it obvious that you don't like Eugene. But you're pretty short-sighted if you don't think Eugene has the population to support a high-speed rail. For one thing, this is the first time in decades that the federal government is offering money to improve our railways. The state of Oregon should take advantage of their offer. As another poster said, the majority of Oregon's population is in the Willamette Valley. The population in the valley is going to continue to grow & there will be a need to expand transportation options. I would prefer seeing people travelling the valley by rail rather than adding more miles of freeways to accommodate them. I travel by train whenever I can. I would love to be able to get to Eugene or Albany (Corvallis) in less time than it now takes on Amtrak. I have family in Seattle, Portland & Corvallis & the thought of taking a high-speed rail to visit everybody is very appealing to me.
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