HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #2521  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 5:12 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
I recall hearing that the display of this collection was being held up due to a tax benefit issue between the donating party and the CRA. Has that been resolved?
The federal rules were recently changed and appear to allow the donation to be completed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2522  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 6:23 PM
Phalanx Phalanx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Halifax
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
The proposed site for this (Battle of the Atlantic Place) is out over what is currently water beyond Sackville Landing. Not sure how likely it is to be built.
Pretty sure this is dead in the water (no pun intended). Having trouble finding the fundraising site, and even when I could it hadn't been updated in a very long time. No new articles in over a year anywhere else. I liked this proposal, and I think Halifax needs more cultural institutions like this.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2523  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 7:05 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
Pretty sure this is dead in the water (no pun intended). Having trouble finding the fundraising site, and even when I could it hadn't been updated in a very long time. No new articles in over a year anywhere else. I liked this proposal, and I think Halifax needs more cultural institutions like this.
It was a very expensive proposal for a relatively specific exhibit. I think they were looking for significantly more money than the current art gallery budget ($200M?). The reality in Halifax is that it would be very hard to attract millions of visitors to a new museum. A wildly successful museum might get in the single digit millions per year in total admissions dollars.

The Museum of Civilization in Ottawa cost about $600M in today's dollars to build (1989).

I wonder if there's a scaled-back "permanent indoor drydock" type exhibit they could do. Maybe just attached to the Maritime Museum.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2524  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 7:18 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
It was a very expensive proposal for a relatively specific exhibit. I think they were looking for significantly more money than the current art gallery budget ($200M?). The reality in Halifax is that it would be very hard to attract millions of visitors to a new museum. A wildly successful museum might get in the single digit millions per year in total admissions dollars.

The Museum of Civilization in Ottawa cost about $600M in today's dollars to build (1989).

I wonder if there's a scaled-back "permanent indoor drydock" type exhibit they could do. Maybe just attached to the Maritime Museum.
I mostly agree. The ask was way too high and certainly circa the $200 mn you mention.
Haul the ship and the CSS Acadia out of the water and display them on the Dartmouth waterfront. The water is shallow at Ferry Terminal Park and extending the park southwest into the harbour would be quite cheap and provide more park space as well as an area of dry land to display the 2 vessels.
Less than 20 feet of water for about 200 feet out into the harbour.
I use use link on a frequent basis :
http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts...6252/-63.56880
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2525  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 7:46 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I wonder if there's a scaled-back "permanent indoor drydock" type exhibit they could do. Maybe just attached to the Maritime Museum.
This would be my hope actually.

The previous proposal seemed like the 'gold-plated super-deluxe model', but in reality I think a controlled-environment location to minimize degradation of the ship while allowing visitors access to it, would be sufficient.

It is the last of its kind and at the very least needs to be preserved.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2526  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 7:47 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
The federal rules were recently changed and appear to allow the donation to be completed.
Well that's good news. Thanks Colin.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2527  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 8:02 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
The federal rules were recently changed and appear to allow the donation to be completed.
They were, but not retroactively, causing this case to remain unresolved.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2528  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 8:04 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,487
" Yesterday, Budget 2019 offered a simple, if unexpected, solution to the impasse: a change to the act, and related taxation law, that means the “national importance” criteria no longer apply when it comes to obtaining specialized tax credits for artwork donations.

“Budget 2019 proposes to amend the Income Tax Act and the Cultural Property Export and Import Act to remove the requirement that property be of ‘national importance’ in order to qualify for the enhanced tax incentives for donations of cultural property,” says the budget document.

The new measure is considered effective as of Budget Day: March 19, 2019.

“Our reaction is a very positive one,” says Moira McCaffrey, executive director of the Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization (CAMDO-ODMAC). “The change is going to make possible, once again, significant donations of important cultural property to museums.”
https://canadianart.ca/news/budget-2...laws-and-more/
The Leibowitz photos did not qualify as 'of national importance'.
Pehaps a few of my photos from around the world will qualify !!
Want a photo of fog in Saint John,NB ?
A photo of my boys inside the old ferry terminal in Dartmouth ?
The family in a steel shack on a dirt road in El Salvador ?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2529  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 8:34 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
They were, but not retroactively, causing this case to remain unresolved.
Oh crap.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2530  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 8:37 PM
Keith P.'s Avatar
Keith P. Keith P. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,017
Getting back to the Art Gallery, I find this announcement baffling.

Clearly it is being driven by the Fed wanting to roll out some pre-election pork, but it is difficult to see much difference between this and the stadium proposal. Both are badly out of step with what ought to be the priorities of government right now, which is all hands on deck to deal with healthcare. I know there is only so much one can do at a time, and I know that both sports and art are important to many. But this seems as tone-deaf as HRP's police tank vehicle only on a much larger scale. Money wasted on non-priority things is dangerous prior to an election if spun artfully. Devoting so much to what is seen by much of the public as an elitist group has the potential to backfire even more than the stadium.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2531  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 9:11 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Getting back to the Art Gallery, I find this announcement baffling.

Clearly it is being driven by the Fed wanting to roll out some pre-election pork, but it is difficult to see much difference between this and the stadium proposal. Both are badly out of step with what ought to be the priorities of government right now, which is all hands on deck to deal with healthcare. I know there is only so much one can do at a time, and I know that both sports and art are important to many. But this seems as tone-deaf as HRP's police tank vehicle only on a much larger scale. Money wasted on non-priority things is dangerous prior to an election if spun artfully. Devoting so much to what is seen by much of the public as an elitist group has the potential to backfire even more than the stadium.
I may be off-base here, but I see the medical system being more of an organizational/systemic issue, rather than one that you fix by throwing money at it. The current system is very messed up and inefficient, not prioritizing the right things and currently has many patchwork systems or unintended consequences that are driving costs through the roof.

Staff shortages and the resultant required overtime caused huge costs in time and a half pay and paying for leave when staff finally burns out. Shortages of GPs cause people to resort to emergency depts for things that aren't emergencies, which plugs up that system and drives costs up. Then there's the domino effects, such as paramedics having to wait until overburdened emergency depts deal with patients before being released (which I believe is being fixed).

I'm sure there is much more broken than a layman such as myself can point out, but it's easy to see how messed up it is now and how that inefficiency has driven up costs.

So, I'm not sure it's accurate to say that money for things like galleries and stadiums should be thrown at the medical system. Of course there will have to be money spent to manage the crisis situation that we are in, but a system overhaul is needed more than barrels of money thrown at it, and it won't be fixed until that happens.

Of course I'll leave it to the medical professionals to chime in if they wish as my impressions may not be completely accurate.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2532  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 9:35 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
" Yesterday, Budget 2019 offered a simple, if unexpected, solution to the impasse: a change to the act, and related taxation law, that means the “national importance” criteria no longer apply when it comes to obtaining specialized tax credits for artwork donations.

“Budget 2019 proposes to amend the Income Tax Act and the Cultural Property Export and Import Act to remove the requirement that property be of ‘national importance’ in order to qualify for the enhanced tax incentives for donations of cultural property,” says the budget document.

The new measure is considered effective as of Budget Day: March 19, 2019.

“Our reaction is a very positive one,” says Moira McCaffrey, executive director of the Canadian Art Museum Directors Organization (CAMDO-ODMAC). “The change is going to make possible, once again, significant donations of important cultural property to museums.”
https://canadianart.ca/news/budget-2...laws-and-more/
The Leibowitz photos did not qualify as 'of national importance'.
Pehaps a few of my photos from around the world will qualify !!
Want a photo of fog in Saint John,NB ?
A photo of my boys inside the old ferry terminal in Dartmouth ?
The family in a steel shack on a dirt road in El Salvador ?
Colin, is your take that this can be applied to the Leibowitz collection? I was under the impression that the change only applied to new donations as of budget day, and excluded works previously donated.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2533  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 9:40 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
So, I'm not sure it's accurate to say that money for things like galleries and stadiums should be thrown at the medical system.
I agree completely with this. Here's a summary of what the health budget looks like for NS:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...2020-1.5071888

Ballooning from $4.4B to $4.6B this year. Up to 42% of total spending. Yet still a crisis limited by funding that needs to be diverted from other areas? What's the magic number? $6B? $8B?

The provincial dollars earmarked for the new art gallery work out to 1.5% of the total health care spending for a single year, and only about 1/3 of the annual growth of the health department's budget.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2534  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 11:51 PM
Keith P.'s Avatar
Keith P. Keith P. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,017
Well, I think that's a disingenuous argument.

While $80mil is indeed a small percentage of the overall health care budget, we are not talking about this fixing the entire system. But $80mil is $80mil, and would buy a lot of MRI machines, OR suites, long-term care beds... the list of shortcomings is endless. Tell the person suffering in pain with no mobility waiting years for a knee replacement, or someone on dialysis awaiting a kidney transplant, or a family trying to take care of someone at risk at home because there is a multi-year wait for a long-term care bed. It would address a lot of pain points and hot spots. It is very hard to equate the value of doing that with this project.

Last edited by Keith P.; Apr 19, 2019 at 2:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2535  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2019, 11:51 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
Colin, is your take that this can be applied to the Leibowitz collection? I was under the impression that the change only applied to new donations as of budget day, and excluded works previously donated.
You are correct. I thought there had been some sort of 'work-around' following discussions between the province and the federal government. I'll see if I can find the applicable legislation.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2536  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2019, 12:13 AM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Palm Beach Gardens FL
Posts: 1,059
We can always find a crisis to put money to and they will never be resolved such that more money cannot help. However we must spend some money on other things other than the daily crises or we would NEVER get anything nice, like a library, stadium, museum, etc
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2537  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2019, 3:25 AM
Dartguard Dartguard is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
I may be off-base here, but I see the medical system being more of an organizational/systemic issue, rather than one that you fix by throwing money at it. The current system is very messed up and inefficient, not prioritizing the right things and currently has many patchwork systems or unintended consequences that are driving costs through the roof.

Staff shortages and the resultant required overtime caused huge costs in time and a half pay and paying for leave when staff finally burns out. Shortages of GPs cause people to resort to emergency depts for things that aren't emergencies, which plugs up that system and drives costs up. Then there's the domino effects, such as paramedics having to wait until overburdened emergency depts deal with patients before being released (which I believe is being fixed).

I'm sure there is much more broken than a layman such as myself can point out, but it's easy to see how messed up it is now and how that inefficiency has driven up costs.

So, I'm not sure it's accurate to say that money for things like galleries and stadiums should be thrown at the medical system. Of course there will have to be money spent to manage the crisis situation that we are in, but a system overhaul is needed more than barrels of money thrown at it, and it won't be fixed until that happens.

Of course I'll leave it to the medical professionals to chime in if they wish as my impressions may not be completely accurate.
Well as the brother of a N.S. Doctor I can tell you it most certainly is about money. N.S. pays their very well trained Doctors shit compared to other Canadian jurisdictions . That is the main reason we have a doctor shortage. My brother is part of the Halifax ICU team and he does about 12 weeks in Saskatoon every year because they literally pay their people twice what N.S. does for the same services. I could go in to the fascinating toughness of Prairie Indigenous people but that's for another time.

All the ICU Doctors staff had their salary's cut by $80,000 a couple of years ago but you did not hear about that because they are PRO'S. Period. Halifax has the only level one Trauma center East of Montreal and it's a no fail mission. The greatest frustration is the Rural FUCKS sending far from sick patients to Halifax because the poor dears in a Truro Cape Breton or New Glasgow want to Golf or drive to Halifax for Neptune or Costco. Don't be sick in Truro BTW, keep driving. Kentville, good to go.


The dirty secret in N.S. is that there are three Provinces here, Metro Halifax, Rural mainland N.S. and C.B.. C.B. BTW pays its Doctors at least 20 % MORE than the rest of the Province to try to keep Professionals there. They don't want to stay unless they have Family reasons. I visit there for business and I understand why Folks don't stay.


The pathetic thing in our system is the Province is recruiting International Doctors when the real Pro's want to stay but be respected with the Canadian Average wage. My brother flew to Saskatoon earlier today for ten days and yes he was right in the middle of the Humboldt carnage last year. He was the only Medical professional that did NOT personally know any of the boys.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2538  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2019, 4:03 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,476
Thanks for the info from your brother's situation. There's no question that doctors in NS should be paid on par with other provinces.

My earlier point, though, was the broken system that creates situations like you mention. You can funnel millions of dollars into a broken system where the extra money goes towards making up for the dysfunctional aspects within the system, instead of going towards paying the professionals for their services.

I think what you are describing is a symptom of a greater problem, and I suspect that if we decided to not build any stadiums, libraries, art galleries, arenas, parks, etc. it still would not make a dent in the system to the point where the money would go to where it's really needed.

Of course I understand that it's much more complex than that...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2539  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2019, 11:22 AM
Keith P.'s Avatar
Keith P. Keith P. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax View Post
We can always find a crisis to put money to and they will never be resolved such that more money cannot help. However we must spend some money on other things other than the daily crises or we would NEVER get anything nice, like a library, stadium, museum, etc
When you are starving and do not have money to buy food, the first thing you buy when some cash comes your way is not a new Easter bonnet.

Until we get our core services at a level of basic functionality we do not need to waste money on palatial libraries, stadia or galleries built with public funds.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2540  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2019, 1:38 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 34,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Of course I'll leave it to the medical professionals to chime in if they wish as my impressions may not be completely accurate.
Well, I am a physician, and there are so many flaws in the health care "system", I don't even know where to begin.

My biggest pet peeve is the increasing centralization and bureaucratization that has occurred in health care over the last 25 years. I'm sure the situation is the same in NS as it is in NB. In NS, except for the IWK, every other hospital in the province is controlled by a single health care authority based in Halifax. In NB, there are francophone and anglophone authorities based in (of all places) Bathurst and Miramichi.

The net result of this centralization is a fossilization of the decision making process and paralysing bureaucratic inertia. This infects all aspects of health care, but I will use the equipment procurement process as an example.

In my department, first we determine what the requirements are for new or replacement medical equipment. We then prioritize our list (sometimes we make compromises between what we think we might be able to get, and what we really need or want). This list is then sent to our LMAC (local medical advisory committee) for review and prioritization with the needs and wants from other departments in our institution. This is fine, and this process is usually fair (beyond the usual pettiness and jealousy that you find in any organization). The new list is then submitted to the RHA MAC to enter into a competition with all other hospitals in the province for further prioritization. This is where the process falls apart. While you can usually have a conversation with your local colleagues about what the priorities should be for your own hospital, once you start negotiating with other facilities, then things become much more complicated. Some institutions are stronger than others, and may be able to form strategic regional alliances with other nearby institutions at the expense of other institutions with more worthwhile projects elsewhere in the province. This process is decidedly not fair. Who's to say if a new CT scanner in one hospital is more important than ICU upgrades in another? A smaller hospital might have a greater need, but is frozen out by a larger and more influential institution. This happens all the time.

Finally the (flawed) procurement list is presented to the RHA management committee (and board) for final review. Usually the amount of money they have to spend on procurement is only a small fraction of what is necessary, and more politics ensues. Senior managers and board members are not medical people and often don't fully understand the arguments. This process is further complicated by the fact that the majority of the RHA board members are politically appointed rather than elected. As such, the final decision usually ends up with significant political interference, and being more what the provincial government wants rather than what the hospital actually needs. Depending on the government of the day, one hospital (or region) may be favoured over another. There are powerful lobby groups out there who can influence the process, especially based on regional, cultural or linguistic needs.

Net result is that we as a department have become extremely cynical over the entire process. We hardly ever get what we want (although we are getting better at working the system). Instead, we tend to wait until our equipment irrevocably breaks down, at which point it becomes an emergency purchase, and this bypasses the routine procurement process.

Is this how the system should work?????

In the old days (before regionalization), when I was chief of the department, and my hospital was a publicly funded but independent health care facility, if we (as a department) decided there was a piece of equipment that we needed (or wanted), all I would have to do is wander down the corridor to the admin wing and talk to the VP in charge of our department. He would take charge of the procurement process and he was invariably tremendously helpful. Now, we really don't know who to talk to (the administration is in the Miramichi and we have very little contact with them), and the whole system is now designed to be obstructive to change and/or innovation. As a result, physicians end up feeling powerless, and instead of being proactive and taking the lead in changing the system, more often than not, we just start treating medicine as simply a "job", rather than a calling, and simply put our time in at work, keep our head down and try to stay out of trouble.

Why bother trying to change the system when it is so resistant to change in the first place??????
__________________
Go 'Cats Go

Last edited by MonctonRad; Apr 19, 2019 at 7:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:42 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.