NEW YORK | 175 Park Avenue (Grand Hyatt) | 1,575 FT | 86 FLOORS

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by nyc_alex

Last I saw the Hotel Penn was selling rooms for $50/night. Hopefully that one goes too.

Yeah, they were all slashing prices because nobody is coming. At the Grand Hyatt, there was an agreement in place with the hotel workers union about a closing. I’m not sure how much that will weigh on a reopening. As for the Hotel Penn, Vornado was content to leave the hotel open until they finish work on 1 and 2 Penn Plaza (using proceeds from 220 CPS). It will be interesting to see how any extended closing weighs on that as well.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by nyc_alex

Last I saw the Hotel Penn was selling rooms for $50/night. Hopefully that one goes too.

I’m less sanguine about that. That area still needs a lot of improvement before a Class A tower can rise there.

As far as the Park Lane goes, by the time that that fetid piece of excrement is dismantled and a new tower risers, there will be massive demand for super luxury condos.

[viewguysf]

Do you guys really think there will be a demand for new premium office towers and condos when we emerge from the oncoming severe recession (or even depression)? I’m honestly seeking opinions, wondering how things will be affected here too. In addition to much wealth disappearing, won’t many businesses become even more accustomed to employees working from home?

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by viewguysf

Do you guys really think there will be a demand for new premium office towers and condos when we emerge from the oncoming severe recession (or even depression)? I’m honestly seeking opinions, wondering how things will be affected here too. In addition to much wealth disappearing, won’t many businesses become even more accustomed to employees working from home?

good question, but that is for another thread, not this one. lets stick to the building proposal itself here.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by viewguysf

Do you guys really think there will be a demand for new premium office towers and condos when we emerge from the oncoming severe recession (or even depression)? I’m honestly seeking opinions, wondering how things will be affected here too. In addition to much wealth disappearing, won’t many businesses become even more accustomed to employees working from home?

Yes. Economies are cyclical. No downturn is permanent.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Yes. Economies are cyclical. No downturn is permanent.

Nobody's saying that the economy won't rebound... but will there be structural changes that reduce the demand for core-city office space and take some of the pressure off the East Midtown market? I do think a greater number of workers will work from home, and some employers may choose to re-suburbanize to office parks.

Remember, this is also happening at the same time that millennials are starting families and (if they can swing it) looking to buy homes. They don't necessarily want homes in the suburbs specifically, but urban real estate is out of reach for a great many people, especially if they want access to good public schools or if they need to budget for private schools. So they get pushed into suburban markets, especially older suburbs from the 1950s and 60s with more starter homes. And prime suburban office sites (near malls, major interchanges, etc) can be scooped up by businesses for a steal.

This is not pre-determined, but it's something that city leaders in every major city should be prepared to fight.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Nobody's saying that the economy won't rebound... but will there be structural changes that reduce the demand for core-city office space and take some of the pressure off the East Midtown market? I do think a greater number of workers will work from home, and some employers may choose to re-suburbanize to office parks.

Remember, this is also happening at the same time that millennials are starting families and (if they can swing it) looking to buy homes. They don't necessarily want homes in the suburbs specifically, but urban real estate is out of reach for a great many people, especially if they want access to good public schools or if they need to budget for private schools. So they get pushed into suburban markets, especially older suburbs from the 1950s and 60s with more starter homes. And prime suburban office sites (near malls, major interchanges, etc) can be scooped up by businesses for a steal.

This is not pre-determined, but it's something that city leaders in every major city should be prepared to fight.

I don't see that happening. People will always want to be in the core of global cities like NY, London, Tokyo, etc. Your hypothesis may affect cities like Atlanta or Dallas, but not NY.

[Crawford]

I think it's waaaay to early to speculate the timing/extent of economic rebound and the impact on future locational decisions. I am more worried about the former than the latter; there is no obvious reason to think that a segment young people aren't gonna prefer cities because there was a virus. You aren't safer from a virus in suburbia (or anywhere, really), unless you completely forego restaurants, social gatherings, public parks, concerts, sports, etc. Most people aren't gonna be willing to permanently forego human interaction because of a one-time event.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by viewguysf

Do you guys really think there will be a demand for new premium office towers and condos when we emerge from the oncoming severe recession (or even depression)?

Originally Posted by ardecila

Nobody's saying that the economy won't rebound... but will there be structural changes that reduce the demand for core-city office space and take some of the pressure off the East Midtown market? I do think a greater number of workers will work from home, and some employers may choose to re-suburbanize to office parks.

This discussion always comes up everytime something happens, certainly after 9/11. But the most important thing to remember is the new office construction in NY is driven more by lease expirations. There are times when it will slow down, which is why you are seeing so much of it being built now. Another of the biggest factors you are seeing drive construction is the age of NY office stock - most of it is old. There are a lot of buildings here, sure, but they are very old. Manhattan's CBDs will never empty out. Could or should more people work from home? Maybe. But it would be a drop in the bucket. New York will still need to house it's companies. Leases will run out. And due to the nature of construction, which can take years, the planning always has to begin years ahead of time. And this tower in particular won't just be run-of-the-mill new office space. It will be the rare new premium space sought after in east Midtown, where there really isn't much. For all of it's size, 270 Park Avenue won't be leasing any space to outside tenants. Tower Fifth and 350 Park are years away from happening (just like this one). The demand will be there.

[NYguy]

https://www.bisnow.com/new-york/news...l-sheet-103445

March 17, 2020

TF Cornerstone and RXR Realty dropped $31.5M on an interest in air rights over Grand Central Terminal, PincusCo reports. The seller was MSD Capital, an investment firm that manages Michael Dell’s family office. The three parties announced in February 2019 that they are joining together with a plan to pull down the Grand Hyatt New York next to Grand Central Terminal and build a 2M SF mixed-use tower in its place. This transaction is for 28.8% of the air rights parcel attached to 89 East 42nd St., per the website, suggesting the entire air rights parcel is valued at $109M.

https://www.pincusco.com/tf-cornerst...al-air-rights/

TF Cornerstone and RXR Realty pay $32M to MSD Capital for stake in Grand Central air rights

[JMKeynes]

I really hope that they expedite the closure and demo of this hotel!

[faridnyc]

Originally Posted by NYguy

https://www.bisnow.com/new-york/news...l-sheet-103445

March 17, 2020







https://www.pincusco.com/tf-cornerst...al-air-rights/

TF Cornerstone and RXR Realty pay $32M to MSD Capital for stake in Grand Central air rights

so we are waitting for something huge there . we hope that we will see first megatall structure !!!

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by faridnyc

so we are waitting for something huge there . we hope that we will see first megatall structure !!!

That won't happen. New Yorkers would fiercely oppose a mega-tall.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

That won't happen. New Yorkers would fiercely oppose a mega-tall.

NIMBYs have no say on a height of a skyscraper here. The only say they would have is in whatever public space or transit improvements are generated, and that really is up to the City and the MTA. The Midtown east rezoning is already in place. The approvals process is more of a formality to hatch out just what those contributions are. But height is not in question for that process. Of course, they'll get to comment on it as the process allows. But look back on the approvals of One Vanderbilt or 270 Park as an example.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by NYguy

NIMBYs have no say on a height of a skyscraper here. The only say they would have is in whatever public space or transit improvements are generated, and that really is up to the City and the MTA. The Midtown east rezoning is already in place. The approvals process is more of a formality to hatch out just what those contributions are. But height is not in question for that process. Of course, they'll get to comment on it as the process allows. But look back on the approvals of One Vanderbilt or 270 Park as an example.

That's good news. I wonder why JP Morgan opted for the shorter tower then? Then should have decided to go with a 1,650' version of the current plan.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

That won't happen. New Yorkers would fiercely oppose a mega-tall.

I don't think people are going to get too crazy about a 1500+ foot tower in an overwhelmingly commercial area, especially when there has been little to no opposition to the 1425 foot tall tower planned...

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Submariner

I don't think people are going to get too crazy about a 1500+ foot tower in an overwhelmingly commercial area, especially when there has been little to no opposition to the 1425 foot tall tower planned...

Let's hope. How tall is mega-tall? I thought that it was over 1,600'.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

That's good news. I wonder why JP Morgan opted for the shorter tower then? Then should have decided to go with a 1,650' version of the current plan.

JP Morgan took advantage of its footprint to create the large floors on the lower levels. That's something that is extremely hard to come by in Midtown East, which is why the Hudson Yards was created. They could have built a 2,000 ft skyscraper, but that wouldn't have fit their needs.

[Submariner]

I think mega tall is 1650 feet?

In any event, isn't the height pretty set in stone?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Submariner

I think mega tall is 1650 feet?

In any event, isn't the height pretty set in stone?

The height is not an issue here. There are no height limits. What's being approved would be the bonus elements (transit improvements, public space, etc.).