Historic census data

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Architype

Good question, but to say that almost all our (English) ancestors came from Bristol is incorrect. The origins were much more widespread.

However, considering that the percentage of NL Catholics roughly corresponds to the percentage of Irish descendants should provide the answer to your question.



http://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/s...st-country.php

Oh, sorry - I knew it was the southwest, and all those travel articles by English writers mention that the English people here sound like they're from Devon. I just assumed Bristol was the main city in that region, not a separate one. It's a bit like how on the Irish side they say we're all from Waterford, which is more or less true, but also nearby Wexford. About half the distance as Devon to Bristol.

Ugh, I've said that Bristol mistake so many times in so many places. Damn it.

[Docere]

Sydney, 1931:

Birthplaces:

Born in Newfoundland 2,166 9.4%
Born in continental Europe 1,198 5.3%
Born in British Isles 622 2.7%
Born in West Indies 273 1.2%

Selected ethnic origins:

Ukrainian 585 2.5%
Polish 541 2.3%
Black 523 2.3%
Jewish 425 1.8%
Italian 417 1.8%
Other Asiatic 277 1.2%

With their children included, Newfoundlanders are easily more than 10% of Sydney's population.

Quite an interesting mix overall - the most "Newfoundlander", "Syrian" and "West Indian" city in the country at the time.

[SignalHillHiker]

We had a few thousand Newfoundland-born residents in cities such as Montreal back then as well, when that was a noticeable percentage of the population. Nothing approaching our influence in Cape Breton, though.

The West Coast of Newfoundland is similar in reverse. Most English-speaking settlers there (it was the French shore for centuries; one of the concerns Canada had about accepting Newfoundland into Confederation in the 1800s, had we not refused, was that we didn't have full sovereignty over our territory - with France controlling the west and northwest coasts). Anyhow, a lot of people - primarily Scots - moved from the Maritimes to our West Coast.

[Docere]

Born in Newfoundland, 1931:

Toronto 2,784 0.4%
Halifax 2,598 4.4%
Montreal 2,278 0.3%
Sydney 2,166 9.4%
Glace Bay 1,721 8.3%

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

Quite an interesting mix overall - the most "Newfoundlander", "Syrian" and "West Indian" city in the country at the time.

What was the distribution of West Indians in Canada at the time? I'm guessing they're both in the Maritimes and Ontario at this time. There's a sizeable population of West Indians around in NYC at this time too.

[Docere]

Born in West Indies:

Toronto 1,242
Montreal 969

Not all were Black though - a lot were probably of British origin (as they were still colonies then). The Black population was probably undercounted too and data on them is very limited since they often get lumped in with "others."

[Docere]

Toronto's Black population increased from 472 in 1911 to 1,236 in 1921 and 1,344 in 1931, presumably due to modest West Indian immigration.

Also of note: Toronto's Black population surpassed that of Windsor in the 1910s.

[Docere]

The best evidence I think that suggests the Black population was undercounted for a long time - the Black population of Canada virtually doubled between 1951 and 1961 (from 18,000 to 32,000), even though the Black immigration was tiny during that time and major Caribbean immigration didn't take off until the 1960s and 1970s.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

The best evidence I think that suggests the Black population was undercounted for a long time - the Black population of Canada virtually doubled between 1951 and 1961 (from 18,000 to 32,000), even though the Black immigration was tiny during that time and major Caribbean immigration didn't take off until the 1960s and 1970s.

What happened between 1951 and 1961 that would increase the response rate of Black Canadians back then?

Did more people feel more comfortable revealing their race/ethnicity info after the 60s compared to earlier?

[Docere]

Yes, by the early 1960s the civil rights movement was underway and more people were willing to reveal Black origins which they may have hidden in the past.

[SignalHillHiker]

Docere, by the way, an in-depth look at relations between Canada and Newfoundland during that period, if you're interested. It covers the two main things we learned about in school: Canada scuttled our attempt at a sort of free trade deal with the United States. They convinced Britain not to give Royal Assent to the bill passed by our government, which was as much a rubber stamp then as it is now. We never forgave them for it. And also one good one, even after we gave up our independence, Canada opened what would today be a full foreign embassy in St. John's. It's something that would never be done for any political jurisdiction other than a sovereign country, but they did it for us even when we were ruled by Commission (kind of a dictatorship - a council of Newfoundlanders and Brits appointed by London).

• Video Link

[Docere]

Interesting. So it looks like the Newfoundland wave began in the 1890s.

According to this source, about 7500 Newfoundlanders lived in Cape Breton by 1921.

https://journals.lib.unb.ca/index.ph...ad/12240/13084

[Docere]

German MT, 1931:

Saskatchewan 138,499 15%
Ontario 82,089 2.4%
Alberta 63,410 8.7%
Manitoba 57,312 8.2%

German origin, 1931

Ontario 174,006 5.1%
Saskatchewan 129,232 14%
Alberta 74,450 10.2%
Manitoba 38,078 5.4%

German origin + all other German speakers, 1931:

Ontario 183,007 5.3%
Saskatchewan 169,011 18.3%
Alberta 89,266 12.2%
Manitoba 66,160 9.4%

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Docere

German MT, 1931:

Saskatchewan 138,499 15%
Ontario 82,089 2.4%
Alberta 63,410 8.7%
Manitoba 57,312 8.2%

German origin, 1931

Ontario 174,006 5.1%
Saskatchewan 129,232 14%
Alberta 74,450 10.2%
Manitoba 38,078 5.4%

German origin + all other German speakers, 1931:

Ontario 183,007 5.3%
Saskatchewan 169,011 18.3%
Alberta 89,266 12.2%
Manitoba 66,160 9.4%

German MT vs. German origin nicely shows that the German-speakers in Manitoba were heavily Mennonite, unlike Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Andy6

German MT vs. German origin nicely shows that the German-speakers in Manitoba were heavily Mennonite, unlike Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan.

Yup. Most "Dutch" in Manitoba in the 1931 census were in fact Mennonites. Most "Russians" in the Prairie provinces were Germans from Russia, not ethnic Russians.

Dutch origin, German MT:

Manitoba 16,142
Saskatchewan 7,118
Alberta 1,677

Russian origin, German MT:

Saskatchewan 15,501
Alberta 7,242
Manitoba 6,170

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

I didn't know that names like Joseph or Hart are associated with Lebanese or Jewish immigrants. In the past, a lot of family names were changed when people immigrated to Canada.

In Quebec at least the name "Hart" has long been associated with Jews. I believe the first Jewish person elected to any office in Canada was Ézékiel Hart in Trois-Rivières - this was ages ago.

Also the Quebec-based discount department store chain Hart was founded by Jews of that name as well in the 50s or 60s.

Some of the Hart family ended up intermarrying with the Catholic French Canadians though.

A boxer from my region is called Gaétan Hart and he AFAIK is not Jewish. (Hart was involved in a fight that led to the death of opponent Cleveland Denny in the 80s.)

[Docere]

The switching away from German to Dutch and Russian is quite evident if you compare the 1911 and 1921 censuses (i.e. WWI).

Manitoba:

German 34,530; 19,444
Dutch 2,853; 20,728
Russian 8,841; 14,009

Saskatchewan:

German 68,628; 68,202
Russian 18,413; 45,343
Dutch 2,684; 16,639

Alberta:

German 36,862; 35,337
Russian 9,412; 21,212
Dutch 2,951; 9,490

[Docere]

Many of German origin switched to Dutch in Nova Scotia and Ontario as well after WWI. For 1911, 1921 and 1931.

Nova Scotia:

German 38,844; 27,046; 27,098
Dutch 4,179; 11,506; 13,412

Ontario:

German 192,320; 130,545; 174,006
Dutch 35,012; 50,512; 60,241

It's clear that the vast majority of "Dutch" in Nova Scotia were of German origin, and many were in Ontario as well.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

Yup. Most "Dutch" in Manitoba in the 1931 census were in fact Mennonites.

Originally Posted by Docere

The switching away from German to Dutch and Russian is quite evident if you compare the 1911 and 1921 censuses (i.e. WWI).

Originally Posted by Docere

It's clear that the vast majority of "Dutch" in Nova Scotia were of German origin, and many were in Ontario as well.

Is the usage of "Dutch" meaning "German" in Canada similar to the reasoning behind "Pennsylvanian Dutch" in the US, where it's referring to the name "Deutsch"?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Is the usage of "Dutch" meaning "German" in Canada similar to the reasoning behind "Pennsylvanian Dutch" in the US, where it's referring to the name "Deutsch"?

More likely just a way to avoid post-war anti-German sentiment.