[Moncton] Centre Avenir Centre | 26.65m |~6 Fl | Completed

[Nashe]

I really don't think parking lots should be the city's business. Someone with a bit of entrepreneurial spirit is needed here.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

I really don't think parking lots should be the city's business. Someone with a bit of entrepreneurial spirit is needed here.

The City's business should be balancing parking needs versus proper transit and densification needs. In other words, they should be making sure that the parking lots that are allowed are neat, tidy, as public as necessary to serve the overall city needs and so forth.

They should be doing what they can to prevent developers from basically buying old buildings, knocking them down and leaving a gravel "parking lot" behind and charging for that parking.

Basically the longer term goal for any city IMO is that downtown parking should be for VISITORS only. (and maybe for DT residents)

People who work 9-5 M-F downtown should be encouraged to take transit in and out of the core, and not be bringing their vehicles in. (By making long term parking options comparable or more expensive than monthly passes for example). This should reduce traffic in the core and make more short term parking available for visitors, making the core more inviting for people to come in.

In any case, that's a bit of a derail I guess.

Parking garages would help in that respect too for that matter. Whether it is the city that builds it, or the city tightens the rules on surface parking enough to make a garage feasible is another matter entirely.

[MonctonRad]

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

I really don't think parking lots should be the city's business. Someone with a bit of entrepreneurial spirit is needed here.

Private parking garages aren't goint to be of much use to the general public and, as repeated, parking garages aren't going to be making a profit - so why should private interests take them on?

Everything Taeolas said is spot on. There's going to be some growing pains with a densifying downtown - this parking issue is the first of what will be many.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

The City's business should be balancing parking needs versus proper transit and densification needs. In other words, they should be making sure that the parking lots that are allowed are neat, tidy, as public as necessary to serve the overall city needs and so forth.

They should be doing what they can to prevent developers from basically buying old buildings, knocking them down and leaving a gravel "parking lot" behind and charging for that parking.

I especially like the first two paragraphs of Taeolas' response.

Downtown parking should be AS PUBLIC AS NECESSARY TO SERVE THE CITY'S NEEDS. This is most definitely not the situation in Moncton. The downtown core is awash in ugly surface parking, but the vast majority of this is privately leased parking and is inaccessible to casual users. This fact is a major disincentive to people coming to the downtown area and supporting downtown businesses. This disincentive is compounded by fear of the almighty Booter - a person capable of being judge, jury and executioner, only too happy to charge you $180 for illegally immobilizing (and possibly damaging) your vehicle.

The second paragraph is equally as true. The city should discourage in the strongest terms demolition of old buildings only to be replaced with weed infested gravel lots used only for daytime leased parking. This practice is the quickest way to kill a downtown. If you ask me, low intensity usage of downtown land such as this should be subject to double or even triple taxation. This would serve as an incentive to developers to do something more with their land, such as commercial or residential redevelopment or even putting up an actual parking structure with space useable by the general public.

The current parking situation in the downtown is completely untenable and major changes are needed now or in very short order.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

The City's business should be balancing parking needs versus proper transit and densification needs. In other words, they should be making sure that the parking lots that are allowed are neat, tidy, as public as necessary to serve the overall city needs and so forth.

They should be doing what they can to prevent developers from basically buying old buildings, knocking them down and leaving a gravel "parking lot" behind and charging for that parking.

Basically the longer term goal for any city IMO is that downtown parking should be for VISITORS only. (and maybe for DT residents)

People who work 9-5 M-F downtown should be encouraged to take transit in and out of the core, and not be bringing their vehicles in. (By making long term parking options comparable or more expensive than monthly passes for example). This should reduce traffic in the core and make more short term parking available for visitors, making the core more inviting for people to come in.

I agree with all of that. However that still has nothing to do with the city building parking garages... I imagine it has enough on it's plate what with managing all of the on-street parking (which is increasing in recent years).

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

I agree with all of that. However that still has nothing to do with the city building parking garages... I imagine it has enough on it's plate what with managing all of the on-street parking (which is increasing in recent years).

Building parking garages would eliviate on street parking allowing the city to use that space for new cycling lanes instead of planing to widen roads to add the lanes in as it the plan being push forth for a more green city. As people seem to be trying to work towards.

Also pushing people to take public transportation, when bus service is so unreliable would be a major fail on the city's part. some of the routes are on the hour, and a lot of the routes barelly run evenings, and weekend.

[MonctonRad]

A couple more excellent points.

I wonder if anyone at city hall (aside from Vorkuta) is paying attention to this discussion.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Scarface

Building parking garages would eliviate on street parking allowing the city to use that space for new cycling lanes instead of planing to widen roads to add the lanes in as it the plan being push forth for a more green city. As people seem to be trying to work towards.

Also pushing people to take public transportation, when bus service is so unreliable would be a major fail on the city's part. some of the routes are on the hour, and a lot of the routes barelly run evenings, and weekend.

Sure it would, but it would also cost 20-25M at a time when many are very vocal about the amount already spent on the DTC itself, which the city really had no choice on, given the state of the Coliseum.
What I hear everyone saying (and agree with) is that there is a critical need for reliable parking downtown in places where there is no worry of being booted (or otherwise prosecuted). What I don't hear is what anyone (other than the city) plans to do about it.

[Feneant]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

What I don't hear is what anyone (other than the city) plans to do about it.

The only group which should be responsible for doing anything about it is the city.

Look at Horizon Place in Dieppe, how would people react if the builder had said 'we're not including any parking, there's plenty of parking in the area'? People wouldn't accept that and would show it by not renting there, and that is what we will be doing to the city with the event center.

[Taeolas]

The proper solution will be a garage, or more likely multiple garages that will have some amount of public parking available in them. But that construction should have started when the mall was torn down.

For the short term, the city should probably be ready to make some hard choices that may not be liked but will be needed.

From the sounds of it, I would suggest the following:
* Significantly raising the taxes on long term parking lots (lots that do not allow public short term parking). The increase in taxation would be earmarked for a Public Parking Garage and/or Transit improvements and be designed to DIScourage long term (all day) parking options in the city.
* Give lower taxes for lots that have significant short term (3 or 4 hour) public parking. While it wouldn't provide many revenues for funding a garage, it would at least open up parking spots for the Events Center and defang the booters.

This would need to be done to take effect in the Summer most likely, so people can get used to it, tourists will be able to take advantage of it, and it will be in place when the Centre opens next fall.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Feneant

People wouldn't accept that and would show it by not renting there, and that is what we will be doing to the city with the event center.

Time will tell THAT story. I really don't see masses of people avoiding the area. I'm just not sure what can really be done in the situation... tacking 25m on would be impossible.

[Sunnybrae]

I never realized the importance parking structures served until I read these latest comments. I'm surprised that Dawn Arnold would not be in this same mindset. Maybe for the politics of it all, it's too much of a political hot potato now. I don't know if doing the right thing would be political suicide for her career. Saying "Oh, we need another 20, 40 or 60 million to fix this." would be a hard pill to swallow.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

Time will tell THAT story. I really don't see masses of people avoiding the area. I'm just not sure what can really be done in the situation... tacking 25m on would be impossible.

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

I never realized the importance parking structures served until I read these latest comments. I'm surprised that Dawn Arnold would not be in this same mindset. Maybe for the politics of it all, it's too much of a political hot potato now. I don't know if doing the right thing would be political suicide for her career. Saying "Oh, we need another 20, 40 or 60 million to fix this." would be a hard pill to swallow.

I understand the situation, and it's lack of a positive outcome. It's the exact Damned if you do, damned if you don't senario.

People want bike lanes, better transit, and parking but if the city puts up the money to do it people will get upset, and could be political suicide not only for the Mayor but most city hall employees that might be close to this even by the "10 foot pole standard"

I'd put a 20 Million dollar price tag to the project because the closest estimates to what a parking structure, on what can be considered flat land has been guestimated at 17 million. We can not forget the land cost if the city does not already have land, and the fact we would probably need more then one parking structure to cover downtown parking.

Public Transportation the city still has busses that should probably be replaced in the next few years, and that aswell would cost money as well and the only people who are probably not on the verge of complaining are the current public transit users. Non users I'm not sure would understand how in bad shape some of the busses curently are.

Bike lanes also you need money it's not just taking out the curent lines on roads, and painting in new ones the situation would need to be assest to minimise impact on current traffic, safety concerns, and also without minimising the efficientcy of use of bike lanes. Then you cant forget about the time it takes city employees to remove any lines curently in the area of the new bike lane, and painting the lanes in.


all this work could pay off in the end but does the cost, and need warent it being done in such a way.


It needs to be done but I do agree with the way people think, and sometimes act it might just be political suicide for Mayor Dawn Arnold, and Maybe city hall staff encluding councilors as well.

[L'homard]

I've been to rinks in Boston, Montreal, Toronto Sarajevo NY and Halifax.
None has public parking included on the property to any degree.
Miraculously, those cities' rinks haven't gone out of business for lack of customers,
In time, visitors to our events centre will adapt as well.
For the love of God, for $2.50 I can get chauffered to the events centre on a city bus in less than one hour with wifi included. A taxi home afterwards costs 15 bucks.
My God, how will I ever survive?

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by L'homard

I've been to rinks in Boston, Montreal, Toronto Sarajevo NY and Halifax.
None has public parking included on the property to any degree.
Miraculously, those cities' rinks haven't gone out of business for lack of customers,
In time, visitors to our events centre will adapt as well.
For the love of God, for $2.50 I can get chauffered to the events centre on a city bus in less than one hour with wifi included. A taxi home afterwards costs 15 bucks.
My God, how will I ever survive?

Problem with what you've said there is for people like myself a taxi from the Centre to home is 30$ not 15 , and also Bus trip is not 1 hour, or less, and that is if the busses are runing on time. Some people will also either have to take a shuttle to the nearest stop, or get a drive. Most people it's a bus to get to the bus to get to your destination, and it's over an hour in some cases 2 hour trip. Also with the schedules being all out of wack you have to leave quite early in a lot of cases Making transit the less convenient choice.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by L'homard

For the love of God, for $2.50 I can get chauffered to the events centre on a city bus in less than one hour with wifi included. A taxi home afterwards costs 15 bucks.
My God, how will I ever survive?

Codiac Transit in my neighbourhood is infrequent, inconvenient, and requires transfers to get downtown. If I miss the bus, I would likely miss the concert. A taxi ride home isn't too much of a hardship once in a while, but it could be a major expense for a Wildcats season ticket holder, especially if they live on a fixed income. Also, for a major concert, there could be 10,000 people exiting the events centre all at once. How many taxis are there in the city???

I certainly didn't expect (or want) an attached parking garage on the back end of the events centre. The new Hyatt Hotel across the street from the events centre is certainly a better use of land too. There is however a lot of vacant land across the CN tracks to the south of the events centre. This is where a parking facility should have been built.

Moncton is a low density, sprawling municipality. While I certainly hope for increased densification and intensification in the core, this will take some time to accomplish and the needs of the 80% of events centre customers who live beyond reasonable walking distance from the facility have to be taken into consideration. All we are asking for is parking at a reasonable price, within a reasonable distance of the events centre in a certified boot-free parking lot.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by L'homard

I've been to rinks in Boston, Montreal, Toronto Sarajevo NY and Halifax.
None has public parking included on the property to any degree.
Miraculously, those cities' rinks haven't gone out of business for lack of customers,

There's a difference between parking provided by the arena on property and public parking offered nearby. Moncton is doing neither effectively.

My snarky comment to anyone complaining about parking or transit trip length is to live somewhere in or near Downtown but I realize that it isn't possible given current options. In 10-15 year it'll be more convenient, i'd imagine.

[PEI highway guy]

it appears that the glass around the ice surface is being installed

[Manny2727]

Originally Posted by L'homard

I've been to rinks in Boston, Montreal, Toronto Sarajevo NY and Halifax.
None has public parking included on the property to any degree.
Miraculously, those cities' rinks haven't gone out of business for lack of customers,
In time, visitors to our events centre will adapt as well.
For the love of God, for $2.50 I can get chauffered to the events centre on a city bus in less than one hour with wifi included. A taxi home afterwards costs 15 bucks.
My God, how will I ever survive?

Boston, Montreal and Toronto all have very efficient subway services that drop you off on the front step of these facilities.
Halifax can be a struggle to find parking but at least when you do, there's pedways that you can walk in to get you to the arena so you don't need to walk in -20 weather .

hard to compare moncton with these bigger cities when it comes to parking