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  #1  
Old Posted May 18, 2019, 12:45 PM
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[Halifax] The Abraham (2180 Robie) | 30 m | 8 fl | U/C

This one is coming to Council on Tuesday and looks like it could be approved. Another craptacular design by Fares Group. Although that block could use some help, I'm not much of a fan of this one.

https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default...90521rc123.pdf

Robie St side rendering:




Existing street view on Robie:

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  #2  
Old Posted May 18, 2019, 4:59 PM
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its a bit short it would be at least 14 floors or more
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Bulid,Bulid,Bulid that's what I say!

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  #3  
Old Posted May 18, 2019, 5:02 PM
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According to the much-ballyhooed Centre Plan this one is already too tall.

If you want a chuckle, read the section of the report I linked with the minutes of the community consultation. Everybody had problems with it.
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  #4  
Old Posted May 21, 2019, 9:04 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Very uninspired architecture for a very visible intersection in the city. It adds density to the area, but that's about it.

I hope they deep-six it and hold out for a better proposal.
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  #5  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 1:51 AM
Colin May Colin May is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Very uninspired architecture for a very visible intersection in the city. It adds density to the area, but that's about it.

I hope they deep-six it and hold out for a better proposal.
Passed with 2 Nays.
Savage,Adams and Streatch were not there.....I suppose the hockey game was more important, free tickets etc
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  #6  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
Passed with 2 Nays.
Savage,Adams and Streatch were not there.....I suppose the hockey game was more important, free tickets etc
They would be in some company's skybox (maybe HRM/Events Halifax has one too) so free food and drink as well, very important for Mayor Mike who never saw a free buffet he didn't like.

As to the development, while it passed, the CBC article contains this nugget. "No-Waye" Mason chimed in with the "It's TOO TALL!" mantra:

"Local councillor Lindell Smith tried to amend the design, so the building would start off at four storeys along Robie and three along Cunard. Coun. Waye Mason agreed with the idea.

"Four and five [storeys] on this corner is too high," said Mason. "Look at The Keep on Quinpool, it doesn't work."

But Smith's motion was defeated in a 7 to 7 tie vote. The overall project was then approved 12 to 2, with only Smith and Coun. Tim Outhit voting against it."


Speaks against it, but votes in favor. Slippery fellow. I had not heard that particular criticism of The Keep previously. Maybe some of the more devout anti-height HRM planning staff are whispering in his ear.
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  #7  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
"Four and five [storeys] on this corner is too high," said Mason. "Look at The Keep on Quinpool, it doesn't work."
There is a 9-storey building kitty-corner from this development. It wouldn't even be the tallest building on that stretch of Robie along the Commons.

At this point, we need all the housing we can get. If it's displacing some affordable housing, maybe use that as pushback to get some affordable units in there, but we need to build housing where people want to live, and people want to live on the peninsula.
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  #8  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 1:42 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
They would be in some company's skybox (maybe HRM/Events Halifax has one too) so free food and drink as well, very important for Mayor Mike who never saw a free buffet he didn't like.

As to the development, while it passed, the CBC article contains this nugget. "No-Waye" Mason chimed in with the "It's TOO TALL!" mantra:

"Local councillor Lindell Smith tried to amend the design, so the building would start off at four storeys along Robie and three along Cunard. Coun. Waye Mason agreed with the idea.

"Four and five [storeys] on this corner is too high," said Mason. "Look at The Keep on Quinpool, it doesn't work."

But Smith's motion was defeated in a 7 to 7 tie vote. The overall project was then approved 12 to 2, with only Smith and Coun. Tim Outhit voting against it."


Speaks against it, but votes in favor. Slippery fellow. I had not heard that particular criticism of The Keep previously. Maybe some of the more devout anti-height HRM planning staff are whispering in his ear.
Keith, thanks for the chuckle!

You certainly have a talent for pointing out the folly of council... keep 'em on their toes!
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  #9  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 1:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
"No-Waye" Mason chimed in with the "It's TOO TALL!" mantra
excellent.

I actually (as usual) think this one is too short if anything. IMO these developments bring the opportunity to enhance the urban park feel of the Commons; to encompass and define the area with a bit of a Central Park character, for which this lot could be a cornerstone. Anyway, I do agree that it's an improvement!
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  #10  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 3:55 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Very uninspired architecture for a very visible intersection in the city. It adds density to the area, but that's about it.

I hope they deep-six it and hold out for a better proposal.
It's generic but not terrible and nothing much is being lost.

Just expanding the housing supply in the right parts of the city is very important. The city's apartment vacancy rate is low. It is worth approving these proposals while pushing for a bit more architectural merit in the long run.
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  #11  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 1:31 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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It's generic but not terrible and nothing much is being lost.

Just expanding the housing supply in the right parts of the city is very important. The city's apartment vacancy rate is low. It is worth approving these proposals while pushing for a bit more architectural merit in the long run.
It's slightly ironic that I was thinking about a previous post of yours when I was typing my above comment - your post stating that one of the reasons that people feel a loss when heritage properties are torn down is that they are not replaced with good architecture had hit home with me - and I was thinking "yeah, why can't we have better architecture here".

So here we have poorly-maintained Victorians that are being torn down to be replaced with poor (IMHO), or at least mediocre, architecture. As Keith will point out, they have been neglected for years and probably there are not many original elements left on the inside, and I would not argue against that, as this is the usual path that is followed (neglect to the point that nobody minds when they are torn down).

OK, I have resigned myself to the idea that these Victorians are probably dumps now (though likely still have good bones), but still think that a prominent corner next to the Commons should be held to a higher standard architecturally. If this was being built in Clayton Park West, I would think it's fine, for example.

But it still resonates with me how we all seem to think it's great, as long as it's better than the long-neglected buildings that it's replacing (that should not have been allowed by the city to be neglected, as mentioned in a recent thread).

Maybe if it were allowed to be taller it wouldn't look so bad, but I'm sorry to say this one just doesn't do much for me. I wish 'the city' had some will to improve standards in our more prominent/interesting areas.



https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2019...een-light.html
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  #12  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 2:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
It's slightly ironic that I was thinking about a previous post of yours when I was typing my above comment - your post stating that one of the reasons that people feel a loss when heritage properties are torn down is that they are not replaced with good architecture had hit home with me - and I was thinking "yeah, why can't we have better architecture here".

So here we have poorly-maintained Victorians that are being torn down to be replaced with poor (IMHO), or at least mediocre, architecture. As Keith will point out, they have been neglected for years and probably there are not many original elements left on the inside, and I would not argue against that, as this is the usual path that is followed (neglect to the point that nobody minds when they are torn down).

OK, I have resigned myself to the idea that these Victorians are probably dumps now (though likely still have good bones), but still think that a prominent corner next to the Commons should be held to a higher standard architecturally. If this was being built in Clayton Park West, I would think it's fine, for example.

But it still resonates with me how we all seem to think it's great, as long as it's better than the long-neglected buildings that it's replacing (that should not have been allowed by the city to be neglected, as mentioned in a recent thread).

Maybe if it were allowed to be taller it wouldn't look so bad, but I'm sorry to say this one just doesn't do much for me. I wish 'the city' had some will to improve standards in our more prominent/interesting areas.

You may be surprised by this but I agree with you here for the most part.

I already gave my opinion of the architecture of this proposal in my original post so I won't repeat that. And I would not argue that the store on the corner or the structures immediately adjacent to it should be saved.

However, I am dismayed that this building is going to disappear:




Now, I have no idea what it is like inside nor what its use is. Being an older building I have little doubt it needs some work. However it always struck me as being reasonably well maintained and somewhat handsome in design, unlike its neighbors. To me this is an unfortunate loss for the area. It's a shame it could not somehow be incorporated into the development as was done with the less attractive building (to me at least) adjacent to the ordinary-looking Lotus Point development on Ochterloney in Dartmouth
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  #13  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 2:31 PM
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For some reason, I hadn't realized this building will take up the entire block. I agree that is very disappointing, especially considering the Robie/Compton house.

At the risk of both over-simplifying the issue and sounding like a broken record: I have long believed that if developers were allowed to build taller, they would not build as wide, requiring the demolition of entire blocks of heritage buildings to make an investment worthwhile (enter the BMO building on SGR). Moreover, the resultant one-building-per-block approach to development (again, see the Doyle) is far less desirable for a variety of reasons, so we end up losing on both ends.
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  #14  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 2:48 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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For some reason, I hadn't realized this building will take up the entire block. I agree that is very disappointing, especially considering the Robie/Compton house.

At the risk of both over-simplifying the issue and sounding like a broken record: I have long believed that if developers were allowed to build taller, they would not build as wide, requiring the demolition of entire blocks of heritage buildings to make an investment worthwhile (enter the BMO building on SGR). Moreover, the resultant one-building-per-block approach to development (again, see the Doyle) is far less desirable for a variety of reasons, so we end up losing on both ends.
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  #15  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 2:51 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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I might be in the minority, but I am totally okay with most buildings being average when it comes to architecture. There are only so many ways to skin a cat, and when buildings try to stand out or be unique it just kinda gets overwhelming. I basically want my buildings to be:

(a) Cohesive
(b) Non-offensive
(c) Honest (i.e. not trying to "ape" other designs or architectural features--such as unnecessary columns or fake little peaked dormers)
(d) Quality materials

Beyond that I couldn't really give a crap, except in some high-profile locations. Great cities come from the people, the businesses, and the spaces inbetween.
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  #16  
Old Posted May 22, 2019, 4:18 PM
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I might be in the minority, but I am totally okay with most buildings being average when it comes to architecture. There are only so many ways to skin a cat, and when buildings try to stand out or be unique it just kinda gets overwhelming. I basically want my buildings to be:

(a) Cohesive
(b) Non-offensive
(c) Honest (i.e. not trying to "ape" other designs or architectural features--such as unnecessary columns or fake little peaked dormers)
(d) Quality materials

Beyond that I couldn't really give a crap, except in some high-profile locations. Great cities come from the people, the businesses, and the spaces inbetween.
I agree with (a)-(d) although I'd say that satisfying those requirements makes a building above average in Halifax. The municipality should encourage the construction of good quality buildings. What new buildings don't all need to be is unique architectural standouts. Most of the highly valued heritage buildings in Halifax were built using the standard stylistic idioms of the time, with good quality materials, proportions, etc.

My main problem with the existing buildings along that block on Robie is that they are fairly small/plain and have gaps. The little bay window house at the southern end is nice but it's hard to adapt a building like that to a midrise commercial area. Houses like this are character defining for the city but it also might not make sense to keep them along major streets in central areas.
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  #17  
Old Posted May 23, 2019, 11:06 PM
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The recent public hearing for the deveopment of a portion of Lancaster Ridge owned by First Baptist Church drew a mixed broup including a couple of bigots who were horiffied at the prospect of an apartment development being built in an area of owner occupied homes. The bigoted couple comprised a husband and wife who were much more polite than they were at the PIM but used coded words. The lady is a person of colour but she seemed quite at ease explaining why renters are unsuitable She was one of the last speakers. I went to the meeting with one purpose - to speak in favour of mixed neighbourhoods and I explained how many times we rented and owned a home. I also spoke of the mix of residents in our area.
The changes taking place in central HRM will over time turn many neighbourhoods into middle class ghettoes, much like Bedford. I don't see any real effort in the centre plan to encourage mixed neighbourhoods, lower income voices have not been heard and the trend is not positive.
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  #18  
Old Posted May 23, 2019, 11:42 PM
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The recent public hearing for the deveopment of a portion of Lancaster Ridge owned by First Baptist Church drew a mixed broup including a couple of bigots who were horiffied at the prospect of an apartment development being built in an area of owner occupied homes. The bigoted couple comprised a husband and wife who were much more polite than they were at the PIM but used coded words. The lady is a person of colour but she seemed quite at ease explaining why renters are unsuitable She was one of the last speakers. I went to the meeting with one purpose - to speak in favour of mixed neighbourhoods and I explained how many times we rented and owned a home. I also spoke of the mix of residents in our area.
The changes taking place in central HRM will over time turn many neighbourhoods into middle class ghettoes, much like Bedford. I don't see any real effort in the centre plan to encourage mixed neighbourhoods, lower income voices have not been heard and the trend is not positive.
HRM needs that sweet tax revenue from skyrocketing property values in the core, so don't look for them to try anything that would cause that to moderate. That's the only way the tax-and-spend Council can feed their addiction.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2020, 7:42 PM
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Fence is up and these houses are coming down:


Source
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  #20  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2020, 10:58 PM
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Fence is up and these houses are coming down:


Source
Three months later ... The fencing is still up but the demolition permits were just issued last week for this block so they should be coming down very quickly.
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