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  #7121  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2020, 6:31 AM
cganuelas1995 cganuelas1995 is offline
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a grid would work much better if we had more mixed-use zoning instead of a cluster of residential here, some commercial and industrial here, yadda yadda yadda.
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  #7122  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2020, 7:50 AM
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Originally Posted by cganuelas1995 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a grid would work much better if we had more mixed-use zoning instead of a cluster of residential here, some commercial and industrial here, yadda yadda yadda.
You would be correct. Thing is, Surrey Council probably won't pass a zoning plan until the SkyTrain's almost ready, and the developers won't start until they have both.
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  #7123  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2020, 6:07 PM
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I think the grid would work much better if a huge chunk of Surrey was not in the ALR
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  #7124  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2020, 8:07 PM
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I'm sorry, but there's a grid in Vancouver?

Almost every bus route funnels either through downtown or has their terminus at a major bus loop at a Skytrain station (or UBC). And don't even get me started on Burnaby.

Transit is successful in the region because people want to get to and from Skytrain. Skytrain covers long distances in an acceptable amount of time. So people want to get to it, and as quickly as possible. 2 buses to get to Skytrain is out of the question. You may as well drive.

Most bus only trips will be those who are on the West Side and can ride a single bus from their doorstep straight into downtown.

Surrey will need to better reorganize the bus routes (from what I've seen) so that people can get from their home to the closest station as quickly as possible. If you look at Surrey's most popular routes, they are the ones that travel direct to a station. The routes South of 72nd are ghost buses for the simple fact that you have to transfer at Newton or Scottsdale to get to Skytrain.
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  #7125  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2020, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
I'm sorry, but there's a grid in Vancouver?

Almost every bus route funnels either through downtown or has their terminus at a major bus loop at a Skytrain station (or UBC).
Of course they funnel downtown because that's where most people go. But if you look at the east/west streets in Vancouver the major ones all have routes that go from one end to the other.

N/S routes along Dunbar, Arbutus, Granville, Oak, Cambie (although mostly replaced by the Canada Line), Main, Fraser, Victoria, Renfrew

E/W routes along 49th, 41st, 33rd, 25th, Broadway, and Hastings.

The upshot is that most of Vancouver is covered by transit that lets you walk to the nearest major street (often only 3-4 blocks at most), take a bus along one axis of the grid, make one transfer to go along the other axis, get off and walk just a few blocks to your destination.

The diagonal Skytrain line intercepts many of these N/S and E/W routes for a convenient transfer to downtown or back.
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  #7126  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 12:04 AM
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Right, the bus routes may be anchored by downtown or SkyTrain, but they go all the way down their assigned streets. 9 = Broadway. 16 = Arbutus. 49 = 49th. No twists, no turns, no loops, no detours to random strip malls.

On another note, looking at the plan again, what's the point of the 335 after the Fleetwood extension? 319 can cover the Newton half, 320 can cover the Guildford half.
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  #7127  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Right, the bus routes may be anchored by downtown or SkyTrain, but they go all the way down their assigned streets. 9 = Broadway. 16 = Arbutus. 49 = 49th. No twists, no turns, no loops, no detours to random strip malls.

On another note, looking at the plan again, what's the point of the 335 after the Fleetwood extension? 319 can cover the Newton half, 320 can cover the Guildford half.
How is that different that most routes in Surrey. At the north end they are anchored by Skytrain station then filter out to their primary corridor.

You're going to have to explain to me why Vancouver is on a Grid, and Surrey isn't when routes like the 312, 316, 319, 323, 324, 321, 325, 341, 375, 345, 388, 364 all follow primary N/S or E/W corridors with diversions at the terminus ends to meet Skytrain or a bus exchange?

How are the 4, 14, 25, 7, 2, 16, 17, 33, 19, 8 , 25, 22, 20, 16, 27, 28 on a grid, while Surrey's aren't? The 388 and 264 are on more of a grid (to their detriment actually) than the 25 or 33.
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  #7128  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 1:36 AM
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For one, the 323 and 324 could go all the way down their streets to 56th and then back up, not have everyone terminate at Newton Exchange. Popular demand may require that right now, but in the future, that'll be like all N-S lines ending at the old Oak Depot.
Likewise, the 316 could go to Guildford and cover the length of 100th, instead of detouring to end at Surrey Centre.

The 341 is actually a perfect example of what I mean - it zigzags all over the place; I'm going to assume that the weird detour to Fleetwood is a glitch. Ditto the 314, 322, 342, 320/395 and various other roundabout routes that exist just to extend coverage or feed people into Whalley, when all the while neither 96th nor 104th nor 168th have through service. EDIT: 84th could also use a through route, if it's completed like 105th was.

All of that needs to change when Surrey starts to urbanize. They've got part of a grid, but not the whole thing - not yet at least. The 341 and a straighter 342 could unify and skip Newton altogether.

The 25 and 33 are constrained by geography - King Ed effectively ends at Dunbar, and 33rd at Cambie. Granted, the 335 and 341 are much the same.

Last edited by Migrant_Coconut; Oct 1, 2020 at 1:49 AM.
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  #7129  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 2:03 AM
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108th, 104th and 96th should ideally have a routes running from Scott road station to Guildford exchange (or the new 152nd SkyTrain station for the 96th route).

Obviously they wouldn't be able to run the full W-E length of the roads but it's a huge improvement to what service they have right now in mostly sticking to one main arterial rather than deviating to other roads along their route.
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  #7130  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 2:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
All of that needs to change when Surrey starts to urbanize. They've got part of a grid, but not the whole thing - not yet at least. The 341 and a straighter 342 could unify and skip Newton altogether.
Have you ever taken any of the routes before? Or you are just merely judging by looking at a map? If you haven't, take them first, and it may change your opinion...

By the way, the map you linked is wrong. #341 go straight up 148th, and the branch on 84th is just a school special. So it's a grid route for 144th and 148th for the obvious reason that neither of the road run all the way from 104th and 72nd. How is this different from #33?

I see no issue with this. This is as grid as it can be given the limitation.

http://infomaps.translink.ca/Route_D...s/171/r341.pdf

Last edited by nname; Oct 1, 2020 at 2:32 AM.
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  #7131  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 2:41 AM
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Okay, that kind of 341 is MUCH more sensible. Still don't understand the other routes mentioned, though - those are going to be less and less useful as Surrey grows.

I take it that 342 is less dense and therefore less frequent? Doesn't necessarily mean it should be separate, or spaghettified.
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  #7132  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 5:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
All of that needs to change when Surrey starts to urbanize. They've got part of a grid, but not the whole thing - not yet at least. The 341 and a straighter 342 could unify and skip Newton altogether.
The reason they split the 341 into two routes (the other part being the 342) is because it had terrible reliability. One part of their transit planning is to not have routes that are too long (like the 341 used to be) because a delay in one part of the route ripples through the rest of the route. It's worth skimming through their Managing The Transit Network.
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  #7133  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 6:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
By the way, the map you linked is wrong. #341 go straight up 148th, and the branch on 84th is just a school special. So it's a grid route for 144th and 148th for the obvious reason that neither of the road run all the way from 104th and 72nd. How is this different from #33?
I believe TransitDB is accounting for a temporary routing change that's been in place due to the road closure for sewer construction. Under normal circumstances it does go straight up 148th to Guildford.

And that Fleetwood branch does roughly follow the path of a school special that's set up for Holy Cross Secondary students. I've actually taken this before.
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  #7134  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 9:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
The reason they split the 341 into two routes (the other part being the 342) is because it had terrible reliability. One part of their transit planning is to not have routes that are too long (like the 341 used to be) because a delay in one part of the route ripples through the rest of the route. It's worth skimming through their Managing The Transit Network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
I believe TransitDB is accounting for a temporary routing change that's been in place due to the road closure for sewer construction. Under normal circumstances it does go straight up 148th to Guildford.

And that Fleetwood branch does roughly follow the path of a school special that's set up for Holy Cross Secondary students. I've actually taken this before.
Thanks for the reality check. What I'm trying to get at with that comment is how N-S connectivity (and by extent, Panorama Ridge and Cloverdale) is somewhat neglected in favour of Newton Centre.
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  #7135  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Thanks for the reality check. What I'm trying to get at with that comment is how N-S connectivity (and by extent, Panorama Ridge and Cloverdale) is somewhat neglected in favour of Newton Centre.
For a lot of SoF the problem is that there still are a lot of N-S routes feeding into the Skytrain so people can travel to downtown Van - meanwhile there are very few E-W routes to make it into a basic grid.

Yes there are less connections with the main bulk of Surrey and areas like Cloverdale. The stops on Phase two of the Fraser Hwy Skytrain will massively benefit Cloverdale, even more than it will Langley.
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  #7136  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2020, 4:47 AM
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moved this from the general transit thread:

As of this week, Fraser Highway between 140th and 148th now has transit priority infrastructure. Work was periodically being done in August, and the priority lights at 96th have now begun operation. This includes the "red lanes" at WB 148th and EB 140th, as well as transit priority signals and lanes in both directions at 96th Avenue.
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  #7137  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 12:50 AM
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Last edited by Reecemartin; Oct 19, 2020 at 6:41 PM.
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  #7138  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 6:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Reecemartin View Post

Indeed, the diagonal nature of the SkyTrain means most routes on a grid could end or at least interact with a station, lines which are not could job along Fraser highway to the nearest one.
That has more to do with the historical railway it replaced between Vancouver and New West. If you look at the interurban map or a topographical map you also see why. In Surrey, the Interurban and the Skytrain don't follow the same path, and likewise only goes through industrial areas. (Hence why any argument to resurrect it is pointless, as it would just destroy more industrial space.)
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  #7139  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2020, 5:47 PM
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  #7140  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2020, 6:16 PM
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