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  #1821  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2020, 1:55 PM
StNorberter StNorberter is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
And Wab and the speNDP are upset that the 2020 provincial budget doesn't include more spending and this without knowing what the final tally for the COVID-19 pandemic will cost the province. Now that suggestion is completely irresponsible and why Wab nor the speNDP should ever be allowed to govern or have access to anyone's tax dollars!

You seem to revealing yourself as a simpleton!
Don't actually respond to my post, but rather pull a straw man and name calling. That only happens when you have no retort. thanks for playing!
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  #1822  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2020, 4:13 PM
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Listening to Pallister and he's talking about Centra gas, does he not know MB Hydro is the natural gas supplier in this province!
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  #1823  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2020, 7:33 PM
cllew cllew is offline
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
Listening to Pallister and he's talking about Centra gas, does he not know MB Hydro is the natural gas supplier in this province!
In this case he is correct using the Centra Gas name according to the MB Public Utility Board web site:

About Centra Gas
Centra Gas is wholly-owned subsidiary of Manitoba Hydro, and is the principal distributor of natural gas in the Province of Manitoba. Centra's mandate is to acquire, manage, and distribute supplies of natural gas to meet Manitoba market requirements in a safe, cost-effective, reliable and environmentally appropriate manner.

Most people (including me) think of the Manitoba Hydro brand as that's whats on the gas division service vehicles and my gas usage is included on my hydro bill.
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  #1824  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2020, 1:13 AM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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So the province has asked the universities to plan a budget scenario that would see costs decreased by 10%, 20%, or 30%.

Are there proposed cuts for universities in other provinces? I haven't heard of anything happening elsewhere? Anybody?
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  #1825  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2020, 12:59 PM
Winnipegger Winnipegger is online now
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
So the province has asked the universities to plan a budget scenario that would see costs decreased by 10%, 20%, or 30%.

Are there proposed cuts for universities in other provinces? I haven't heard of anything happening elsewhere? Anybody?
He has asked the same for the Crown corps too. Pallister is literally the only one who has been proposing government cuts in a time of economic hardship. Even the other far-right nutters like Ford and Kenny are boosting or at the least maintaining spending during the economic downturn because they realize it's important to stabilize the economy where possible.

But Brian "Brain Dead" scissor hands won't let a good crisis go to waste and instead is going to use this as an opportunity to continue the partisan disassembly of public services to appease the religious rural voter base.

I know people who work at the local universities and they are busier than ever, even if working from home. People think that just because "the economy is shut down", people aren't working. Nothing could be further from the truth. Students are still enrolling, course materials still need to be prepared, and engagement with prospective high school students still needs to happen. In fact, the data shows that during recessions people tend to enroll in post-secondary in even greater numbers, which would increase the demand on our post-secondary systems.

But yeah, don't let facts and data get in the way of your decision making, Mr. Pallister. Go ahead and gut everything while every other province in this country re-invests in public services during a time of decline. Then we will see where people and businesses want to move once COVID is over. (Hint: it won't be Manitoba).
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  #1826  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2020, 1:16 PM
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^ It is weird, Pallister is the only premier who seems to be guided by spite as one of his key principles. I guess now that the worst part of the threat has passed, he has to move quickly because it's going to look extra dumb to still be cutting everything when the economy is starting to roll again.

I've never voted NDP in my life but Pallister is certainly pushing me in that direction.
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  #1827  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2020, 1:34 PM
GreyGarden GreyGarden is offline
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Sad to see. Investing in universities and post-secondary institutions is such a good way to attract people and would improve the competitiveness of Manitoba.

It's especially worrying and will be especially impactful if other jurisdictions aren't cutting the funding for their universities too.
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  #1828  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2020, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ It is weird, Pallister is the only premier who seems to be guided by spite as one of his key principles. I guess now that the worst part of the threat has passed, he has to move quickly because it's going to look extra dumb to still be cutting everything when the economy is starting to roll again.

I've never voted NDP in my life but Pallister is certainly pushing me in that direction.
My biggest issue is the lack of transparency. That should be a real concern to anyone voting PC in Manitoba. He has secret meetings and all the meeting names are shrouded in acronyms that even internal government employees don't understand. Pallister hasn't been transparent with the COVID-19 response and if anyone watches the daily media scrums, he actually comes off quite arrogant and condescending. And when the media challenges him- look out!
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  #1829  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2020, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
So the province has asked the universities to plan a budget scenario that would see costs decreased by 10%, 20%, or 30%.

Are there proposed cuts for universities in other provinces? I haven't heard of anything happening elsewhere? Anybody?
Alberta is cutting university funding by 20% over 3 years. Announced prior to the major outbreak, but remained in budget presented after presence of covid was known.
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  #1830  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2020, 10:51 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger View Post
He has asked the same for the Crown corps too. Pallister is literally the only one who has been proposing government cuts in a time of economic hardship. Even the other far-right nutters like Ford and Kenny are boosting or at the least maintaining spending during the economic downturn because they realize it's important to stabilize the economy where possible.

But Brian "Brain Dead" scissor hands won't let a good crisis go to waste and instead is going to use this as an opportunity to continue the partisan disassembly of public services to appease the religious rural voter base.

I know people who work at the local universities and they are busier than ever, even if working from home. People think that just because "the economy is shut down", people aren't working. Nothing could be further from the truth. Students are still enrolling, course materials still need to be prepared, and engagement with prospective high school students still needs to happen. In fact, the data shows that during recessions people tend to enroll in post-secondary in even greater numbers, which would increase the demand on our post-secondary systems.

But yeah, don't let facts and data get in the way of your decision making, Mr. Pallister. Go ahead and gut everything while every other province in this country re-invests in public services during a time of decline. Then we will see where people and businesses want to move once COVID is over. (Hint: it won't be Manitoba).
Yes, I had a brief look around the interwebz and I did not come across any other articles regarding cuts to universities in other provinces. I wanted to check with some of the folks just to verify this.

What he is doing is most certainly counter-intuitive. This is the time to maintain spending if not increase it as we are heading into a major recession for an extended period.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...rity-1.5534427

The COVID-19 pandemic has been a tumultuous time for both the health and wealth of all Manitobans.

However, Premier Brian Pallister's and Mayor Brian Bowman's dangerous plans to reduce non-essential government spending during this pandemic — such as laying off workers or reducing government pay to just two days a week — will badly damage our economy.

The 2008 financial crisis showed that a better plan is to increase spending during this pandemic.

People often falsely use the analogy of a province or country being akin to a family — if a family has less income, then it should cut back on its expenses. However, a province is not a family — every dollar that the province saves is a dollar (or more) that someone else in the province will not earn.

In economics, this is called the paradox of thrift. If everyone in the Manitoban economy cuts back spending, then everyone's income will fall — and as everyone's incomes fall, spending will once again fall, triggering a vicious cycle. Paul Krugman, 2008 Nobel laureate in economics, noted these exact same problems with austerity following the financial crisis.

Austerity was tried in Europe following the financial crisis of 2008. There, countries desperately cut government spending to balance budgets. The International Monetary Fund found that austerity worsened the financial crisis rather than easing it, as this graph shows.

Every $1 reduction in deficit reduced the gross domestic product (GDP) of their country by up to $1.70!

If Manitoba were to cut personnel expenditures by 60 per cent for four months, the government would save approximately $118 million — but this could cost the economy up to $201 million.

The best path forward
It's clear that fiscal tightening or austerity will be damaging to our province, but that leads to the natural question — what is the best path forward?

In this time of fear and uncertainty, we need the government of Manitoba to spend more money. Governments can break the vicious cycle of reduced spending and income by leaning into the wind and spending more in times of crisis.

For example, in Ontario, the government has issued greater support for low-income seniors, helped families with children with direct payments, provided funding to Indigenous communities and emergency funding to municipalities, reduced payroll taxes, and many other items. In Quebec, the government has provided emergency support to small and medium businesses, the tourism industry, and workers.

The province of Manitoba should enact similar measures that focus on individuals who are less able to handle the economic shock, such as the homeless, youth, single-parent families, etc.

The province's existing programs could be enhanced temporarily to expand employment and income assistance, the Manitoba child benefit, rent assist, and 55 Plus, etc., to a larger group of individuals.

Further, the province could replicate some of the better programs from other provinces, such as emergency loans to small businesses or reducing payroll taxes. These temporary enhancements would help Manitoba weather this crisis and avoid a long-lasting recession or even a depression.

Can we afford it?
Can Manitoba afford short-term emergency measures like this? The answer is, resoundingly, yes.

Manitoba's 2018-2019 debt was 34.4 per cent of GDP, which was lower than Ontario's and Quebec's debt levels, both of which are suffering more heavily at the hands of COVID-19. Yet both of those provinces have enacted large spending programs during the pandemic.

We are lucky that we both have more fiscal room to act and less damage from the virus and should act more.

Back to the lessons learned from 2008.

There were European countries that increased their government spending: Belgium, Finland, the Netherlands and Slovakia were all able to tolerate large increases in government debt.

For example, Finland had a debt equal to 32.7 per cent of GDP before the crisis, which rose to a high of 63.4 per cent in 2015. Belgium had an 87 per cent debt level pre-crisis and that rose to a whopping 107.5 per cent in 2014.

All of these countries were able to increase spending and survive the increase in debt, and continue to thrive today.

These countries' debt-to-GDP levels typically peaked between six and seven years after the crisis, and then started to decline through a combination of increased GDP growth and controlled government spending. Thus, Manitoba could increase its debt during this pandemic and then control spending over the next six or seven years, to reduce debt to more manageable levels.

This is less damaging than cutting during the pandemic as the economy is less sensitive to government spending in economic boom times.

Manitobans have a proud history of protecting their communities. We should continue this tradition by avoiding the dangerous short-term path of austerity and cutbacks, as this will only lead to greater economic problems.

Instead, we should spend more to help our most vulnerable during this pandemic: the sick, the elderly, the poor and our brave essential workers.

We can't afford not to help those around us.
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  #1831  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2020, 10:52 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Alberta is cutting university funding by 20% over 3 years. Announced prior to the major outbreak, but remained in budget presented after presence of covid was known.
A rather short-sighted and silly move on their part. But of course they will invest billions of dollars on a pipeline that has no guarantee of being completed on the us side of the border.
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  #1832  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2020, 10:54 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ It is weird, Pallister is the only premier who seems to be guided by spite as one of his key principles. I guess now that the worst part of the threat has passed, he has to move quickly because it's going to look extra dumb to still be cutting everything when the economy is starting to roll again.

I've never voted NDP in my life but Pallister is certainly pushing me in that direction.
I'm concerned that some of these temporary cuts to universities and crown corporations will become permanent after the crisis is over.
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  #1833  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2020, 11:18 PM
ReeceZ ReeceZ is offline
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger View Post
Even the other far-right nutters like Ford and Kenny are boosting or at the least maintaining spending during the economic downturn because they realize it's important to stabilize the economy where possible.

But Brian "Brain Dead" scissor hands won't let a good crisis go to waste and instead is going to use this as an opportunity to continue the partisan disassembly of public services to appease the religious rural voter base.

I know people who work at the local universities and they are busier than ever, even if working from home. People think that just because "the economy is shut down", people aren't working. Nothing could be further from the truth. Students are still enrolling, course materials still need to be prepared, and engagement with prospective high school students still needs to happen. In fact, the data shows that during recessions people tend to enroll in post-secondary in even greater numbers, which would increase the demand on our post-secondary systems.

But yeah, don't let facts and data get in the way of your decision making, Mr. Pallister. Go ahead and gut everything while every other province in this country re-invests in public services during a time of decline. Then we will see where people and businesses want to move once COVID is over. (Hint: it won't be Manitoba).
Not true at all. Here in the magical kingdom, Kenney is slashing and bashing most public sectors; health, education, transportation, you name it. And I'm not talking small cuts either. Also, he in his infinate wisdom has decided to suspend all mandatory following of environment regulations, meaning companies can pollute to their hearts content and not be penalized.

Just when you think you have it the worst, eh!
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  #1834  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2020, 1:20 AM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
I'm concerned that some of these temporary cuts to universities and crown corporations will become permanent after the crisis is over.
I wonder if Pallister is going to try to legislate his way out of severance pay for civil service layoffs. He's hinted at "using legislation." The amount of severance pay they would have to pay out for actual layoffs rather than some kind of agreement with unions for unpaid days off would be astronomical and make no sense in a context of a "revenue" or cash-flow crisis he is claiming.

The "we need to find money for health-care" stuff is so disingenuous too. Our health costs are way down in the time of social distancing. The Province is barely being billed for any services taking place outside of hospitals. The amount they can save from this alone would fund much of the pandemic response when we see numbers and outbreaks in line with what is happening currently in Southern Ontario, Quebec and Alberta. What Pallister is going to do at the end of this fiscal year is go...wow we ended up not spending $600 million while the economy is absolutely tanked with no recovery in sight, and probably cut the PST again so we can all have $10 per month.

Legislating around collective bargaining and to rewrite existing collective bargaining agreements will likely keep the Provincial Government and unions in court beyond Pallister's retirement as premier. This alone will cost millions upon millions of dollars regardless of the result.

If anyone in that PC party has integrity and is a real "conservative" they'll start going against this agenda of gutting public assets at all costs, including millions of unnecessary costs incurred and a massive hit to our overall economy.
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  #1835  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2020, 1:23 AM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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Originally Posted by ReeceZ View Post
Not true at all. Here in the magical kingdom, Kenney is slashing and bashing most public sectors; health, education, transportation, you name it. And I'm not talking small cuts either. Also, he in his infinate wisdom has decided to suspend all mandatory following of environment regulations, meaning companies can pollute to their hearts content and not be penalized.

Just when you think you have it the worst, eh!
Austerity just ensures the reduced demand from the economic recession becomes permanent. Anyone who can do basic math understands that. Has nothing to do with left or right. Unfortunately our province and Alberta have elected ideologues who can't call an audible and are going to stick to their playbook even if it will depress their economies. These guys want to do that to reduce the "size of government" at all costs. They don't care about the people and families who elected them.
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  #1836  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2020, 12:55 PM
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wardlow wardlow is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ It is weird, Pallister is the only premier who seems to be guided by spite as one of his key principles. I guess now that the worst part of the threat has passed, he has to move quickly because it's going to look extra dumb to still be cutting everything when the economy is starting to roll again.
You're absolutely right. Bull-headed spite and Nixonian levels of petty disdain for a growing list of political enemies seems to be the guiding force of the Manitoba government right now.

Meanwhile, enrolments for Spring and Fall terms at Manitoba's universities are way up.

As an example shared on Twitter: "We offered POLS 1502 (Introduction to Politics) last Summer, enrolment: 19. Same course about to start this Summer, enrolment: 121. Things at MB universities are picking up in response to COVID-19, not slowing down."

When there is a tidal wave of unemployment across multiple sectors is the exact opposite time to threaten massive cuts to universities.
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  #1837  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2020, 8:13 PM
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Can't really get upset at Bowman for cutting spending right now – Pallister made it illegal for the city to run any sort of deficit, and we're already borrowing a ton.
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  #1838  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2020, 9:02 PM
headhorse headhorse is offline
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he could raise more revenue? he's a terrible mayor
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  #1839  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2020, 11:28 PM
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Can't really get upset at Bowman for cutting spending right now – Pallister made it illegal for the city to run any sort of deficit, and we're already borrowing a ton.
Winnipeg hasn't been able to run operating deficits forever as far as I know, as is the case for almost any city in Canada.
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  #1840  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2020, 4:31 PM
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Winnipeg hasn't been able to run operating deficits forever as far as I know, as is the case for almost any city in Canada.
Yes, this has been the case long before Pallister came along. I'm not sure but I think the city not being able to take on debt is written into the City of Winnipeg Charter Act.
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