NB "Big Mall" Status - Page 2

Taeolas · #21 Posted **Feb 26, 2017, 10:49 PM**

Good news for the malls?

30 locations apparently won't be saved, so we don't know which 70 they are yet, and how many are in the Maritimes, but that should bode well for the malls here.

michael_d40 · #22 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 2:13 PM**

Was just going through some old posts. Amazing how much can change in just 1 year.

Taeolas · #23 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 2:27 PM**

Yeah, the showcase mall in NB is getting a Call centre (sorry "Corporate Centre"), while Regent and even McCallister Place seem to be in good shape despite Sears and the others shutting down/moving out.

While the TD news is great for Moncton, I really hope they don't stay in the mall for long. That is NOT the type of development you want to see on the ground floor of a major mall. (Now if Champlain Place had more stories and the Centre was in the upper floors, that would be fine)

OliverD · #24 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 2:35 PM**

I dunno, this is gonna be a multimillion dollar buildout. I think TD is there to stay.

MonctonRad · #25 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 2:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OliverD

I dunno, this is gonna be a multimillion dollar buildout. I think TD is there to stay.

I agree. Hearing what I'm hearing, I think this is permanent.

Personally I would prefer to see 1,000 new high paying corporate banking jobs located in the city core. I thank TD (and McKenna) for their confidence in the city, but I think the downtown could have used the investment more than Champlain Place......

emad · #26 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 3:32 PM**

Per this CF Champlain news release, they are investing $25M. So I'm assuming it's nothing temporary

https://www.cadillacfairview.com/en_...n_Moncton.html

JHikka · #27 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 4:15 PM**

We should be moving away from suburban-style malls, anyway. They're an antiquated way to develop and utilize retail outlets. Big box stores are just as bad ... the more we can move away from car-oriented, space-using suburban malls in our city-centres the better off we'll be.

Sunnybrae · #28 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 5:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Yeah, the showcase mall in NB is getting a Call centre (sorry "Corporate Centre"), while Regent and even McCallister Place seem to be in good shape despite Sears and the others shutting down/moving out.

While the TD news is great for Moncton, I really hope they don't stay in the mall for long. That is NOT the type of development you want to see on the ground floor of a major mall. (Now if Champlain Place had more stories and the Centre was in the upper floors, that would be fine)

IMHO, I think the mall, the current retailers as well as future employees of the TD Corporate Centre would totally disagree with your "NOT the type of development you want" comment. I think it is a total win/win for the parties involved and probably the future of shopping malls with a mix of retail and commercial regardless of whether its on the ground floor or not.

Franco401 · #29 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 5:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

IMHO, I think the mall, the current retailers as well as future employees of the TD Corporate Centre would totally disagree with your "NOT the type of development you want" comment. I think it is a total win/win for the parties involved and probably the future of shopping malls with a mix of retail and commercial.

Offices and call centres in a mall are only effective as short-term gain for landlords and cheap rent for tenants. They take up floor space that could be used for stores, they contribute to the overall atmosphere of stagnation and they remove demand for offices that could be built downtown instead. Champlain isn't about to fall apart because of a call centre taking up floor space that was almost as dead when it was Sears, but this will absolutely hurt it if it's long-term. The call centre in Brookside Mall is a huge reason for it being dead on the inside.

OliverD · #30 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 6:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco401

Offices and call centres in a mall are only effective as short-term gain for landlords and cheap rent for tenants. They take up floor space that could be used for stores, they contribute to the overall atmosphere of stagnation and they remove demand for offices that could be built downtown instead. Champlain isn't about to fall apart because of a call centre taking up floor space that was almost as dead when it was Sears, but this will absolutely hurt it if it's long-term. The call centre in Brookside Mall is a huge reason for it being dead on the inside.

The Brookside Mall was always a secondary mall though, and its downfall has been inevitable for quite some time.

All over North America there are a ton of mall revitalization projects underway, all of which are bringing mixed uses to formerly retail-only malls. Granted, most of these involve the conversion of surface parking into multi-storey office and residential buildings, but this could be a first step towards something like that for CF Champlain.

MonctonRad · #31 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 6:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OliverD

The Brookside Mall was always a secondary mall though, and its downfall has been inevitable for quite some time.

All over North America there are a ton of mall revitalization projects underway, all of which are bringing mixed uses to formerly retail-only malls. Granted, most of these involve the conversion of surface parking into multi-storey office and residential buildings, but this could be a first step towards something like that for CF Champlain.

Agreed. Champlain Place is the primary mall in a city with a CMA population of 150,000. The tertiary market area for this mall tops 600,000 people. It is not the same as Brookside Mall. If a retailer is thinking of setting up in the Moncton market, and the store is a traditional mall based retailer, they will locate at CF Champlain. They have no other choice. Champlain Place is not going to die......

It should be noted that Halifax Shopping Centre also has an office tower, and is not purely a retail mall. The difference between the two situations is an aesthetic one, and as Taeolas pointed out, the TD business centre will be right in your face and obviously a "conversion", which sends out entirely different vibes than having an attached office tower.

Sunnybrae · #32 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco401

Offices and call centres in a mall are only effective as short-term gain for landlords and cheap rent for tenants. They take up floor space that could be used for stores, they contribute to the overall atmosphere of stagnation and they remove demand for offices that could be built downtown instead. Champlain isn't about to fall apart because of a call centre taking up floor space that was almost as dead when it was Sears, but this will absolutely hurt it if it's long-term. The call centre in Brookside Mall is a huge reason for it being dead on the inside.

E-commerce/on-line shopping is reshaping the retail landscape. I believe the malls only future is mixed use for the long term. It's not shop t'ill you drop anymore, it's click t'ill your sick. As long as the mall can keep the right mix of commercial/retail and even residential, they just might survive.

Freddypop · #33 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 6:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree. Hearing what I'm hearing, I think this is permanent.

Personally I would prefer to see 1,000 new high paying corporate banking jobs located in the city core. I thank TD (and McKenna) for their confidence in the city, but I think the downtown could have used the investment more than Champlain Place......

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. Investment in the downtown core would have been preferable. Same can be said about the PNB's decison to not locate the Casino downtown. Still can't figure that one our! At any rate I would bet that the corporate rights to the new Events Centre are likely to be either TD or Rogers. TD Place has a nice ring

JHikka · #34 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 6:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddypop

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. Investment in the downtown core would have been preferable.

Moncton still has some growing out to do before it starts growing up. Until sprawl becomes so bad that the commute isn't worth it from outlying communities to the core the city will continue to grow outwards. Once that limit of sprawl is met the Downtown core should densify and grow up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddypop

At any rate I would bet that the corporate rights to the new Events Centre are likely to be either TD or Rogers. TD Place has a nice ring

TD Place already exists in Ottawa.

Taeolas · #35 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 7:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It should be noted that Halifax Shopping Centre also has an office tower, and is not purely a retail mall. The difference between the two situations is an aesthetic one, and as Taeolas pointed out, the TD business centre will be right in your face and obviously a "conversion", which sends out entirely different vibes than having an attached office tower.

Now there's an idea. If TD were to turn the Sears end into a small tower (even if it's just 4-5 stories), it would probably be better; even without ground floor retail (though ground floor retail would be preferable). It would add a bit of distinction between the Retail part and the Office part, and add some more weight to that area in general, as Moncton's core grows towards Dieppe's core.

Or cut off the Sears part entirely (demolish it like Freddy's Target was demolished) to square up the front of the mall, and build a 4-5 story TD Centre in the Sears Garage area of the lot.

David_99 · #36 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 9:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Personally I would prefer to see 1,000 new high paying corporate banking jobs located in the city core. I thank TD (and McKenna) for their confidence in the city, but I think the downtown could have used the investment more than Champlain Place......

Champlain Place = free parking...

Scarface · #37 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_99

Champlain Place = free parking...

True. But still gives a negative view of CF Champlain. As it seems people have been pointing out.

MonctonRad · #38 Posted **Apr 19, 2018, 10:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_99

Champlain Place = free parking...

Free parking = Good thing for call centre employees, but a bad, bad thing for patrons of the events centre..........

Scarface · #39 Posted **Apr 20, 2018, 3:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Free parking = Good thing for call centre employees, but a bad, bad thing for patrons of the events centre..........

Ithis Actually made me chuckle.

David_99 · #40 Posted **Apr 20, 2018, 11:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Free parking = Good thing for call centre employees, but a bad, bad thing for patrons of the events centre..........

I could imagine a nice, multi-level parking structure on the other side of the tracks, shared between the Event Centre, Herritage Building and a new TD building (built on the old Co-op land). Alas, it would make too much sense for this city.