Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road] - Page 404

yyc_engineer · #**8061** Posted **Apr 20, 2021, 9:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craner

I agree - gotta widen south to 17th Ave SE.
It’s confusing, the list says 16th to Airport Tr. but the map shows a red line from 17th to Airport Tr.

Yes it will be from 17th Ave SE to Airport Tr. (96th Ave) inclusive. Enabling works have started this week. The added lane will go a long way to help congestion, especially Northbound in and around 17th.

craner · #**8062** Posted **Apr 21, 2021, 10:59 PM**

ace.yyc · #**8063** Posted **Apr 27, 2021, 7:45 PM**

That leaves only 8 km left on the entire ring between 96 Ave and Metis that's still 4 lanes. Over/under on... 2030 for that to be done?

yyc_engineer · #**8064** Posted **May 10, 2021, 11:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

That leaves only 8 km left on the entire ring between 96 Ave and Metis that's still 4 lanes. Over/under on... 2030 for that to be done?

With the way development is happening in the far NE (Cornerstone, Redstone, Skyview) and now having jumped Stoney (Homestead) I think this section will get an added lane soon, possibly in next year's Provincial budget.

There is also a lot of bridge work required, interchange upgrades and bridge twinning at Country Hills, interchange upgrades at 96th/Aiport Tr., and a new interchange at 60th. Some of this work will be more urgent than the rest but traffic volumes for NEST are definitely going to start pushing levels that trigger the improvements well before 2030.

LOU · #**8065** Posted **May 18, 2021, 4:20 PM**

Can anyone answer this:

Hi all,
Any reason why the designers chose to have a +/-200-300m median from 22x to Glenmore Trail (check Google maps)? Seems a tad wasteful for both land acquisition costs and this means every single overpass had an increase in overall costs to design and build. Anybody at the Ministry level review the shit these designers/"engineers" produce!?

Pretty damn stupid.

In addition, the province must now pay for grass cutting indefinitely=very wasteful since they don't seem keen on planting shrubs/trees here in Alberta.

Also, i had asked the forum this a while back... Why was the subgrade work on Stoney SE and NE so damn poorly executed? I don't believe I have ever driven on a nearly 10 year old highway (see SE) needing constant repaving work due to heaving and the quality of the asphalt is so terrible (see NE).

Just venting. Thanks

Mazrim · #**8066** Posted **May 18, 2021, 6:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOU

Any reason why the designers chose to have a +/-200-300m median from 22x to Glenmore Trail (check Google maps)? Seems a tad wasteful for both land acquisition costs and this means every single overpass had an increase in overall costs to design and build. Anybody at the Ministry level review the shit these designers/"engineers" produce!?

Feels like this has been answered many times here, but anyways...the reason is because the land transfer from the Tsuut'ina reserve requires the government to use the space right away as was agreed upon for the size of the road, so they built with the ultimate condition in mind from the start. To future proof the road they are accounting for an outer ring road that can be built further out from the current ring road. However, that outer ring road would need to swing in to where the current ring road is on the SW end of Calgary because of the land issues there. The two ring roads would share a right-of-way through the SW and then split off again.

The NDP government famously said they are not continuing to account for an outer ring road, but still built the ultimate sized roadway anyways. This would probably be a measure to cover their butts in case for some reason it does come back. They won't get another chance to buy land from the reserve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOU

Also, i had asked the forum this a while back... Why was the subgrade work on Stoney SE and NE so damn poorly executed? I don't believe I have ever driven on a nearly 10 year old highway (see SE) needing constant repaving work due to heaving and the quality of the asphalt is so terrible (see NE).

The fun part of P3 projects (like the recently announced Deerfoot widening) is that the winning contractor will hold to the exact letter of what the contract says, and no more. So if the contract says the roughness of the road can't exceed certain measurements from the scanning truck after a yearly inspection, then that contractor is not going to pay to make it any better than that. They will do the bare minimum for the duration of the maintenance portion of the P3 contract.

There are probably sections built in poor weather to keep the schedule and that comes back to bite you later on. The penalties for being late are high enough that it's an okay trade-off to the contractor.

yyc_engineer · #**8067** Posted **May 19, 2021, 9:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOU

Can anyone answer this:

In addition, the province must now pay for grass cutting indefinitely=very wasteful since they don't seem keen on planting shrubs/trees here in Alberta.

Alberta Transportation does not plant shrubs/trees on highway projects as they encourage wildlife to enter/stay/nest in the right of way. This is a much bigger maintenace cost than cutting grass twice a year, not to mention safety risks with increased animals near high speed traffic.

City of Calgary has the exact opposite policy. Partly because their roads are more urban and lower speed, partly to appease local residents and reduce the impression that interchange projects are eyesores. This is also why they spend money on "public art" which, for high speed roadway projects, are themselves safety hazards as they distract motorists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOU

Also, i had asked the forum this a while back... Why was the subgrade work on Stoney SE and NE so damn poorly executed? I don't believe I have ever driven on a nearly 10 year old highway (see SE) needing constant repaving work due to heaving and the quality of the asphalt is so terrible (see NE).

Just venting. Thanks

Mazrim is correct for the most part. But essentially it comes down to the way P3 contracts are written. They are performance based, ie. "Contractor must build a road that is X km long, Y lanes wide and has Z number of interchanges" as opposed to "Contractor must build a road that has X mm thickness of Y mm diameter gravel compacted to Z % compaction topped with X mm thickness of Y density asphalt built in Z layers" which is typically how AT projects are designed and tendered.

The P3 projects include a maintenance component, usually 20 years, so theoretically there is an incentive for the Proponent to build a "good" road so that they spend less money over the long term on maintaining it, however in practice there is usually a separate project-company set up to build the road and a different group that ends up doing the operations/maintenance.

There is a lot more to P3 contracts and how they've impacted the design, construction and maintenance of Stoney Trail / Anthony Henday that I could go into but it would probably fill two pages of this thread.

On some positive news, the East Stoney Widening project (adding a 3rd lane between 17th Avenue and 96th/Airport Trail) is moving along nicely. The contractor has started earthworks on the SB lane already and Bottom & Middle lift of NB asphalt is past the McKnight bridge.

davee930 · #**8068** Posted **May 19, 2021, 5:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Alberta Transportation does not plant shrubs/trees on highway projects as they encourage wildlife to enter/stay/nest in the right of way. This is a much bigger maintenace cost than cutting grass twice a year, not to mention safety risks with increased animals near high speed traffic.

City of Calgary has the exact opposite policy. Partly because their roads are more urban and lower speed, partly to appease local residents and reduce the impression that interchange projects are eyesores. This is also why they spend money on "public art" which, for high speed roadway projects, are themselves safety hazards as they distract motorists.

Mazrim is correct for the most part. But essentially it comes down to the way P3 contracts are written. They are performance based, ie. "Contractor must build a road that is X km long, Y lanes wide and has Z number of interchanges" as opposed to "Contractor must build a road that has X mm thickness of Y mm diameter gravel compacted to Z % compaction topped with X mm thickness of Y density asphalt built in Z layers" which is typically how AT projects are designed and tendered.

The P3 projects include a maintenance component, usually 20 years, so theoretically there is an incentive for the Proponent to build a "good" road so that they spend less money over the long term on maintaining it, however in practice there is usually a separate project-company set up to build the road and a different group that ends up doing the operations/maintenance.

There is a lot more to P3 contracts and how they've impacted the design, construction and maintenance of Stoney Trail / Anthony Henday that I could go into but it would probably fill two pages of this thread.

On some positive news, the East Stoney Widening project (adding a 3rd lane between 17th Avenue and 96th/Airport Trail) is moving along nicely. The contractor has started earthworks on the SB lane already and Bottom & Middle lift of NB asphalt is past the McKnight bridge.

Interchanges don't need any damn public art. They are already beautiful

Cage · #**8069** Posted **May 25, 2021, 2:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by davee930

Interchanges don't need any damn public art. They are already beautiful

Amen Brother!

Crazy Ham · #**8070** Posted **May 31, 2021, 6:08 PM**

Looks like they were putting the top lift on the section between Fish Creek and 22X this past weekend. Hopefully they open this section soon, as it will ease the traffic on Fish Creek and make it easier for folks to head out to the SW.

Pegasus · #**8071** Posted **Jun 3, 2021, 9:46 PM**

South (eastbound) Stoney Trail bridge across the Bow River (near Chaparral turnoff) now closed for demolition and all traffic flowing on north bridge. Signs show completion as Fall 2023.

craner · #**8072** Posted **Jun 4, 2021, 5:00 AM**

Yeah baby!! Love all the construction taking place on Stoney.

Pegasus · #**8073** Posted **Jul 4, 2021, 5:09 PM**

The new Stoney Trail north (westbound) bridge over Macleod Trail was completed and opened to traffic a year or two ago so that the (old) EB bridge could be demolished and replaced. Now the new EB bridge is open the relatively new WB roadway on both sides of the new WB bridge has been completely torn up and is being rebuilt. Why? Wasn't it built properly the first time? Seems like an awful waste to me!

Crazy Ham · #**8074** Posted **Aug 1, 2021, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pegasus

The new Stoney Trail north (westbound) bridge over Macleod Trail was completed and opened to traffic a year or two ago so that the (old) EB bridge could be demolished and replaced. Now the new EB bridge is open the relatively new WB roadway on both sides of the new WB bridge has been completely torn up and is being rebuilt. Why? Wasn't it built properly the first time? Seems like an awful waste to me!

They started paving it this weekend. Hopefully they move the westbound traffic back to the north bridge in the nexr couple of weeks.

MrBigStuff · #**8075** Posted **Aug 13, 2021, 10:58 PM**

An Aerial tour of the SWRR would be a nice experience. Any pics of this from the air lately???

Pegasus · #**8076** Posted **Aug 14, 2021, 7:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBigStuff

An Aerial tour of the SWRR would be a nice experience. Any pics of this from the air lately???

Lots of paving underway over Macleod Trail and over the railway tracks. Also on Macleod Trail under 22X. I suspect they are still on track for an October opening. However, there is no easy way to see progress on the unopened section by Bridlewood.

Crazy Ham · #**8077** Posted **Aug 15, 2021, 12:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pegasus

Lots of paving underway over Macleod Trail and over the railway tracks. Also on Macleod Trail under 22X. I suspect they are still on track for an October opening. However, there is no easy way to see progress on the unopened section by Bridlewood.

There is a sign off 6th saying access to McKevitt is to be closed for the next weeks. Not sure if this includes the off ramp from 22, but if does, it will be a real gong show down there...

craner · #**8078** Posted **Aug 15, 2021, 5:22 PM**

Sure been a lack of photo updates on the SWRR website

Crazy Ham · #**8079** Posted **Aug 17, 2021, 1:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craner

Sure been a lack of photo updates on the SWRR website

You forgot any timely information at all. Just check out the traffic advisories. Stuff from June and July cluttering it while current and upcoming events are few and far between. They could of been more proactive like the west part being constructed.

Oh well another 6-8 weeks left on it anyway.

slowroll · #**8080** Posted **Aug 18, 2021, 5:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Ham

They started paving it this weekend. Hopefully they move the westbound traffic back to the north bridge in the nexr couple of weeks.

I saw this morning that the westbound traffic had been moved back onto the north bridge, although in a reduced capacity. I would imagine that it will be fully opened in the coming weeks with the Oct 2021 opening date quickly approaching.