Favorite Wintertime Cities

[homebucket]

Boston

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

Chicago is pretty too, but doesn't get enough snow imo to be considered the prettiest in winter.

True. Despite it's reputation for severe winter weather, chicago is not an egregiously snowy city. In fact, of the US MSAs over 1M people, chicago isn't even one of the top 10 snowiest.


Metro area: average annual snowfall in inches

1. Rochester,: 99.5"
2. Buffalo: 94.7"
3. Grand Rapids: 74.9"
4. Cleveland: 68.1"
5. Salt Lake City: 56.2"
6. Minneapolis: 54.0"
7. Denver: 53.8"
8. Milwaukee: 46.9"
9. Boston: 43.8"
10. Detroit: 42.7"
11. Pittsburgh: 41.9"
12. Hartford: 40.5"
13. Chicago: 36.7"
14. Providence: 33.8"
15. Columbus: 27.5"
16. Indianapolis: 25.9"
17. New York City: 25.1"
18. Philadelphia: 22.4"
19. Cincinnati: 22.1"
20. Baltimore: 20.1"

It pays to be west of the great lakes, even if only barely so.

For example, St. Joe/Benton Harbor (on the other side of the lake opposite chicago) gets an average of 76.2" of snow per year.

[ilcapo]

Salzburg, Austria and Strasbourg, France are on my top list.
Also Old Town in Stockholm aa well as Bergen, Norway.

Stockholm

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by JManc

Snow in cities tends to be brown, slushy and nasty unless they literally just had a snowstorm.

To be fair, I didn't visit Minneapolis, so much as take a train through it. And I think that they had just had a snow storm, so everything was fresh.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

It pays to be west of the great lakes, even if only barely so.

For example, St. Joe/Benton Harbor (on the other side of the lake opposite chicago) gets an average of 76.2" of snow per year.

Yeah, I think most people don't realize how uneven the snowfall is due to position on the lakes. Cleveland and Detroit are only 90 miles apart, and while Cleveland is farther south than Detroit (thus it's warmer) it receives significantly more snow, on average.

[Steely Dan]

^ yep, lake erie is a perfect demonstration of the phenomenon.


toledo (west end of lake erie): 37.6" of snow

cleveland (mid-section of lake erie): 68.1" of snow

buffalo (east end of lake erie): 94.7" of snow


that's quite the gradient for a mountainless region all roughly at the same latitude only spanning ~250 miles

it's all about the prevailing west-to-east winds in the region soaking up moisture as they pass over the lakes, and then dumping it as lake effect snow on the eastern shores.

st. joe/benton harbor is only a mere 60 miles east of chicago across lake michigan, but because it's on the "wrong" side of the lake, they get more than double the amount of snowfall over there.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Cleveland and Detroit are only 90 miles apart,

huh, i've never noticed how truly close detroit and cleveland are, geographically speaking.

because lake erie makes the drive between them roughly twice as long, they seem like they should be further away from each other than they are.

chicago and milwaukee are 80 miles apart, but because the drive between them is essentially a straight shot, they feel much more in the same "neighborhood".

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Burlington, Vermont. There are about six ski mountains within a one hour drive (including some of the best on the East Coast), some of the best craft beer available, great restaurants, and fantastic live music.

As an added bonus, Montreal, one of North America’s best cities, is only an hour and a half away.

Here is a photo of Church Street with a nice covering of snow.


Image courtesy of Seven Days.

[benp]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

True. Despite it's reputation for severe winter weather, chicago is not an egregiously snowy city. In fact, of the US MSAs over 1M people, chicago isn't even one of the top 10 snowiest.


Metro area: average annual snowfall in inches

1. Rochester,: 99.5"
2. Buffalo: 94.7"
3. Grand Rapids: 74.9"
4. Cleveland: 68.1"
5. Salt Lake City: 56.2"
6. Minneapolis: 54.0"
7. Denver: 53.8"
8. Milwaukee: 46.9"
9. Boston: 43.8"
10. Detroit: 42.7"
11. Pittsburgh: 41.9"
12. Hartford: 40.5"
13. Chicago: 36.7"
14. Providence: 33.8"
15. Columbus: 27.5"
16. Indianapolis: 25.9"
17. New York City: 25.1"
18. Philadelphia: 22.4"
19. Cincinnati: 22.1"
20. Baltimore: 20.1"

It pays to be west of the great lakes, even if only barely so.

For example, St. Joe/Benton Harbor (on the other side of the lake opposite chicago) gets an average of 76.2" of snow per year.

We had a beautiful snowfall on Christmas day and the next. About 4 inches of slightly wet snow fell early Christmas morning, coating the trees and homes like a postcard picture - it was a perfect white Christmas day. Saturday we got 18 inches of lake effect snow, which was a great Christmas present for the family. Our first-winter-in-Buffalo relatives all were outside playing and rolling in the snow. Of course, everything was back to business on Sunday, all the streets and the sidewalks of the good people are clear, parks and ski areas were packed with skiers and sledders.

For awhile we thought we were going to miss the lake effect, as we are further north than the usual snow belt. But it shifted north, a little later than predicted, so we got to enjoy the small storm.

I feel sorry for people that never get to experience decent snowfalls during winter in a place that knows how to handle it. Its great to live in a place that does, where people don't freak out, and the city doesn't shut down.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Metro area: average annual snowfall in inches

1. Rochester,: 99.5"
2. Buffalo: 94.7"
3. Grand Rapids: 74.9"
4. Cleveland: 68.1"
5. Salt Lake City: 56.2"
6. Minneapolis: 54.0"
7. Denver: 53.8"
8. Milwaukee: 46.9"
9. Boston: 43.8"
10. Detroit: 42.7"
11. Pittsburgh: 41.9"
12. Hartford: 40.5"
13. Chicago: 36.7"
14. Providence: 33.8"
15. Columbus: 27.5"
16. Indianapolis: 25.9"
17. New York City: 25.1"
    
18. Philadelphia: 22.4"
19. Cincinnati: 22.1"
20. Baltimore: 20.1"

If Philly has had anywhere near 22” in a year more than once in the last decade I’d be shocked. I remember 2010 had 2 crazy storms.... but that’s 10 years ago and since then? We had a nice little 6-incher last week and that was the first storm to accumulate more than an inch in almost 2 years. For better or worse, winters are just milder here.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Londonee

If Philly has had anywhere near 22” in a year more than once in the last decade I’d be shocked.

I got the figure straight from wikipedia.




But speaking of snow, we finally got our first snow of the season here in chicago! Only about 2" thus far, but enough to coat everything in a brilliant blanket of white.

I totally echo benp's contention that it's great to live in a city that gets snow. The key is the balance of things. NYC probably does winter the best. Cold enough at times to be cold, but without the -25 windchill insanity. Cold enough to snow, but not too much. And winter there typically doesn't overstay its welcome.

Chicago does winter somewhat well, but my main gripes are the deep polar vortex troughs and mostly the fact that it often lingers on way too fucking long come March/April. Some years it feels like spring only lasts about 2 weeks between late season April snowstorms and early onset heatwaves in May.

I utterly adore temps in the 40s/50s/60s, and sometimes we don't get nearly enough of that sweet-spot splendor in our shoulder seasons (this past glorious fall not withstanding, when the pleasantly cool air just went on and on and on, seemingly forever).

If there's any silver lining to global warming, it's that chicago's winter season might actually start finally fucking constraining itself within the actual winter season.

[bossabreezes]

I guess everything is relative, but I absolutely find New York's winters to overstay their welcome

I've been living and working close to the NY Harbor (Tribeca and Fidi) for the past 5 or so years, which is horribly windy throughout all of the winter. We haven't been getting much snow of late, which is fine, since New York is terrible with handling it. It's quite bizarre how unprepared the city is for even small amounts of snow. This is the northeast, but the past decade has been light and I think the powers at be have forgotten how to plow the damn streets.

Honestly, New York has a pretty horrible climate all things considered. Wet all the time, hotter than hell or too cold to want to step outside with very few comfortable days. I might just be bitching, but it gets really old after a while.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

I guess everything is relative, but I absolutely find New York's winters to overstay their welcome

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Londonee

If Philly has had anywhere near 22” in a year more than once in the last decade I’d be shocked. I remember 2010 had 2 crazy storms.... but that’s 10 years ago and since then? We had a nice little 6-incher last week and that was the first storm to accumulate more than an inch in almost 2 years. For better or worse, winters are just milder here.

I'm almost certain that Philly got hit with a couple whopper Noreasters around 2015. NYC certainly did. And we lucked out here in NYC by missing a few that were supposed to hit us the year that Boston got that insane amount of snow. We could have easily experienced a 100" annual snowfall in New York, if not just for luck. Philly seems almost just as vulnerable.

One thing that the snow averages don't show well when comparing the East Coast to the Midwest is that the coast is much more blizzard prone. It is pretty common for a single storm to dump the annual snow total in NYC. This rarely happens to cities in the Midwest that aren't on the leeward side of the lakes.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Agreed.



I'm almost certain that Philly got hit with a couple whopper Noreasters around 2015. NYC certainly did. And we lucked out here in NYC by missing a few that were supposed to hit us the year that Boston got that insane amount of snow. We could have easily experienced a 100" annual snowfall in New York, if not just for luck. Philly seems almost just as vulnerable.

One thing that the snow averages don't show well when comparing the East Coast to the Midwest is that the coast is much more blizzard prone. It is pretty common for a single storm to dump the annual snow total in NYC. This rarely happens to cities in the Midwest that aren't on the leeward side of the lakes.

An interesting tidbit is that as a result of this the one-day snowfall records for places like NYC and Boston (and probably DC too) are generally all quite a bit higher than colder, snowier places like Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto.

[hipster duck]

When it comes to winter and wintertime cities, it's important to distinguish between "real winter" and "bullshit winter".

Real winter is a sustained couple of weeks with snow cover on the ground and high temps that are always below freezing. That's the kind of climate where you can reliably do all the outdoor winter activities. Bonus points if it's usually sunny.

"Bullshit winter" is mixed precipitation around the freezing mark, no lasting snow cover, and things like overcast days with blustery winds. This is a climate that has all the negativities of winter: cold, low light, but without any opportunities for outdoor fun.

Cities like Toronto and Detroit are in the bullshit belt. Basically any day between Halloween and the beginning of May could be what I just described. There are probably 50-100 days that fit that bill in Toronto every year alone.

"Dead leaves and the dirty ground" is a great song title for a band from Detroit.

You go about 2 hours north, or to cities like Ottawa or Montreal, and they have a real winter.

[Omaharocks]

^ Interesting, I'd have thought Toronto was more "real winter."

I've spent winters in Omaha, Madison, and Boston. Of those, Madison and Boston both probably fall somewhere between real winter and bullshit winter.

Omaha is extremely variable, being right in the center of the continent. The major snowstorms in Omaha tended to be followed by very cold, blustery weather that blew it around and also kept it very wintery for longer. You get that "swirled vanilla ice cream cone" look to the snow a lot in winter in Omaha.

Snow in Madison and especially Boston tended to fall a bit more regularly, but quickly turned to black slush. I certainly wouldn't describe Boston as a great winter city. Chicago either.

To me, the great winter cities are the ones with mountain snowscapes and drier/crisp winter air in the cities themselves, ie SLC, Denver, Calgary. Places that get sun but have skiing and a strong winter culture.

The great lakes region is just gross and depressing in winter, and yes it lasts far too long. But, the summers partly make up for it and are fantastic.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Is there any way we can make "bullshit belt" a commonly used phrase?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

^ Interesting, I'd have thought Toronto was more "real winter."

I've spent winters in Omaha, Madison, and Boston. Of those, Madison and Boston both probably fall somewhere between real winter and bullshit winter.

Omaha is extremely variable, being right in the center of the continent. The major snowstorms in Omaha tended to be followed by very cold, blustery weather that blew it around and also kept it very wintery for longer. You get that "swirled vanilla ice cream cone" look to the snow a lot in winter in Omaha.

Snow in Madison and especially Boston tended to fall a bit more regularly, but quickly turned to black slush. I certainly wouldn't describe Boston as a great winter city. Chicago either.

To me, the great winter cities are the ones with mountain snowscapes and drier/crisp winter air in the cities themselves, ie SLC, Denver, Calgary. Places that get sun but have skiing and a strong winter culture.

The great lakes region is just gross and depressing in winter, and yes it lasts far too long. But, the summers partly make up for it and are fantastic.

Toronto is actually borderline "real winter" - "bullshit winter", though I do get Hipster Duck's point.

I would add that the frame of reference is probably a bit different in Canada where you have so many cities and so much of the country that have postcard winters.

Toronto is not very snowy in the Canadian context, but it's actually one of the consistently snowiest cities of its size category in the entire world.

[jd3189]

Well, I have always experienced bullshit winter. Whether it was in NYC, Dayton, or Chattanooga, the snow would only be at its peak one night in February and that's it.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Toronto is actually borderline "real winter" - "bullshit winter", though I do get Hipster Duck's point.

I would add that the frame of reference is probably a bit different in Canada where you have so many cities and so much of the country that have postcard winters.

Toronto is not very snowy in the Canadian context, but it's actually one of the consistently snowiest cities of its size category in the entire world.

it is all relative, isn't it.

i look at a NYC winter from chicago and say, "meh, seems pretty nice to me".

someone from florida looks at the same and says "holy fuck, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"




as i said earlier, chicago winters are pretty ok to me for the most part.

my major complaint is how they sometimes drag into spring, depriving me of those glorious shoulder season days in the 40s/50s/60s.

i like having a proper winter season where it gets cold and snows and all of that shit, i just wish it was always definitively over with by March.

global warming seems to be gradually granting me my wish.

[gt7348b]

Cleveland. Great old architecture and great warm food in Little Italy (it helped I lived in University Circle). Completely agree about NYC being nice in the winter except for the wind when I lived on Staten on the water in Stapleton and worked off Battery Park. At least the tourists disappear from the SI Ferry during the winter.