Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Dengler Avenue]

TVA CIMT-CHAU vous présente l'actualité du Bas-Saint-Laurent, de la Gaspésie, de Charlevoix et du Nouveau-Brunswick et plus ... Vos nouvelles à la une.

Woah, TVA Nouvelles actually covers New Brunswick too.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

Now I'm wondering if demanding a trial in English 1) would be a possibility (not sure at all that is it, Quebec's officially unilingual) and 2) would work to reduce the chances of cop showing up and/or get me a Montreal/West Island judge that isn't on the City's payroll.

If you are clearly a bilingual francophone with a French surname and obviously de souche, would your request for a trial in English automatically be granted in Quebec?

One could argue that you are "gaming" the system, and gaining an unfair advantage over other francophones being tried for similar trivial offences en francais

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If you are clearly a bilingual francophone with a French surname and obviously de souche, would your request for a trial in English automatically be granted in Quebec?

One could argue that you are "gaming" the system, and gaining an unfair advantage over other francophones being tried for similar trivial offences en francais

One might be gaming the system, but motives don't matter if you're asserting your right...

Here in MB, a Francophone lawyer beat a speeding ticket a while ago because the RCMP officer who issued the ticket couldn't speak French.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...ight-1.4249924

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If you are clearly a bilingual francophone with a French surname and obviously de souche, would your request for a trial in English automatically be granted in Quebec?

One could argue that you are "gaming" the system, and gaining an unfair advantage over other francophones being tried for similar trivial offences en francais

Canada is not Singapore, we don't have an official ethnic or linguistic identity assigned at birth.

Activist Jaggi Singh was arrested in Quebec City for some protest related offence, but his case was thrown out because he requested an English trial and nobody in the local prosecutor's office spoke English well enough to proceed. Singh is a public figure who speaks French well and everybody knows this – but it was still his right to demand a trial in English.

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020...-parle-anglais

Jaggi Singh, qui s’est exprimé en français pendant toutes les procédures, avait cependant demandé à parler en anglais, notamment pendant les plaidoiries. La loi exige dans ce cas que les échanges entre le juge et les procureurs se fassent uniquement en anglais, sans traducteur.

The comments are interesting. QMI news outlets are very nationalist, and yet most of the commenters are not blaming Singh for demanding an English trial – they're excoriating the Quebec City prosecutor's office for not being able to find someone who can conduct a trial in English.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Canada is not Singapore, we don't have an official ethnic or linguistic identity assigned at birth.

Activist Jaggi Singh was arrested in Quebec City for some protest related offence, but his case was thrown out because he requested an English trial and nobody in the local prosecutor's office spoke English well enough to proceed. Singh is a public figure who speaks French well and everybody knows this – but it was still his right to demand a trial in English.

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020...-parle-anglais



The comments are interesting. QMI news outlets are very nationalist, and yet most of the commenters are not blaming Singh for demanding an English trial – they're excoriating the Quebec City prosecutor's office for not being able to find someone who can conduct a trial in English.

I think Ontario has provisions for moving trials to places with adequate French language capacity, when necessary.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I think Ontario has provisions for moving trials to places with adequate French language capacity, when necessary.

Not just French but other languages as well. I know trials or court hearings that have been moved to different areas or cities so that translation can be provided in specific minority languages.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I think Ontario has provisions for moving trials to places with adequate French language capacity, when necessary.

That does happen. Sometimes the French-speaking judges and crown prosecutors in Timmins along with court staff will travel to other communities depending on what's needed.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If you are clearly a bilingual francophone with a French surname and obviously de souche, would your request for a trial in English automatically be granted in Quebec?

One could argue that you are "gaming" the system, and gaining an unfair advantage over other francophones being tried for similar trivial offences en francais

It has to be granted if requested. Obviously the person has to be able to speak English and cannot be lying to the court.

A couple of my francophone friends from Timmins who have moved to Quebec would likely request to have their trials in English if they were in that situation. They could certainly do it in French but they are used to doing official stuff in English just like the vast majority of Franco-Ontarians.

If the Quebecer requesting it can speak English fluently then the request has to be granted. Last name should never be used to judge someone or assume someone's spoken language. Most surnames where I live are French but not all of those people speak French.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Canada is not Singapore, we don't have an official ethnic or linguistic identity assigned at birth.

Activist Jaggi Singh was arrested in Quebec City for some protest related offence, but his case was thrown out because he requested an English trial and nobody in the local prosecutor's office spoke English well enough to proceed. Singh is a public figure who speaks French well and everybody knows this – but it was still his right to demand a trial in English.

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020...-parle-anglais



The comments are interesting. QMI news outlets are very nationalist, and yet most of the commenters are not blaming Singh for demanding an English trial – they're excoriating the Quebec City prosecutor's office for not being able to find someone who can conduct a trial in English.

That might partly be because they suspect it was a setup to avoid having to prosecute him, for whatever reason.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Woah, TVA Nouvelles actually covers New Brunswick too.

Yes that is correct. Has been that way for a long time. CHAU has long been a media staple for many of my relatives in northern NB.

They have a news and advertising bureau in Caraquet I think.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes that is correct. Has been that way for a long time. CHAU has long been a media staple for many of my relatives in northern NB.

They have a news and advertising bureau in Caraquet I think.

What do CIMT and CHAU stand for respectively?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Andy6

That might partly be because they suspect it was a setup to avoid having to prosecute him, for whatever reason.

Not following. "Setup" of what sort?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

What do CIMT and CHAU stand for respectively?

CHAU = chaud = chaleur = Baie des Chaleurs ?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

CHAU = chaud = chaleur = Baie des Chaleurs ?

So that's what that body of water, which separates Carleton-sur-Mer from Campbellton, is called.

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by Andy6

That might partly be because they suspect it was a setup to avoid having to prosecute him, for whatever reason.

If that were the case it would have been easier simply to drop the charges. It's certainly happened before – Singh has been arrested many times but only convicted once, which is when he plead guilty to vandalizing a temporary fence during the G20 protests in Toronto.

[Edwara19]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I don't think that's true anymore.

I think the ROC and Quebec have drifted so far apart from one another that they now have a transactional roommate-like relationship, rather than a spousal one (let alone being of the same body and mind).

If Quebec was on the eve of another referendum, English Canadians wouldn't flock to Montreal by the hundreds of thousands to appeal for you to stay. Some would come, for sure, but I think that the size of the crowd would be smaller than all but the most cynical observers would expect.

When people from Alberta call you a "separatist", imagine a roommate saying "you owe me $20 for last month's hydro bill", not a wife saying "you don't love me anymore!"

I really don't see this. I moved to Quebec a couple years ago at 26, and culturally speaking, it's (Montreal and it's suburbs) really not that different from the GTA. The population is diverse and open. People, especially my generation, watch the same shows that people in the ROC do (except for Occupation Double which is just a Quebec version of Love Island). People still listen to the same Top 40 artists. The only thing that's different is the language, imo.

The only time I really felt out of place was when I moved to Saguenay to immerse myself in the language. I found people to be very conservative and not friendly - almost hostile. However, I had similar experiences when travelling to more rural parts of Ontario.

Basically, I haven't felt that people in the Montreal region have different values from the Canada that I grew up in. Still seems like the same country to me.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Edwara19

I really don't see this. I moved to Quebec a couple years ago at 26, and culturally speaking, it's (Montreal and it's suburbs) really not that different from the GTA. The population is diverse and open. People, especially my generation, watch the same shows that people in the ROC do (except for Occupation Double which is just a Quebec version of Love Island). People still listen to the same Top 40 artists. The only thing that's different is the language, imo.

The only time I really felt out of place was when I moved to Saguenay to immerse myself in the language. I found people to be very conservative and not friendly - almost hostile. However, I had similar experiences when travelling to more rural parts of Ontario.

Basically, I haven't felt that people in the Montreal region have different values from the Canada that I grew up in. Still seems like the same country to me.

I think it really depends a lot on which crowd you hang out with.

I guess I am not saying that the differences are on the level of Japan-vs.-Congo, but even Montreal IMO is different *enough* from Toronto. Ottawa and Gatineau are different *enough* too.

To the point where they feel like completely different countries? I dunno... it depends on who you're talking to and what you're talking about.

Grand Forks BC and Kettle Falls WA? Calais ME and St Stephen NB? Liège vs. Antwerpen in Belgium? Geneva and Zurich in Switzerland? Chennai and Amritsar in India?

[Edwara19]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think it really depends a lot on which crowd you hang out with.

I guess I am not saying that the differences are on the level of Japan-vs.-Congo, but even Montreal IMO is different *enough* from Toronto. Ottawa and Gatineau are different *enough* too.

To the point where they feel like completely different countries? I dunno... it depends on who you're talking to and what you're talking about.

Grand Forks BC and Kettle Falls WA? Calais ME and St Stephen NB? Liège vs. Antwerpen in Belgium? Geneva and Zurich in Switzerland? Chennai and Amritsar in India?

I mean I hang out with Hatians and Moroccans outside of school. My residency program is mostly made up of White Quebecers mainly from the Montreal region and I haven't noticed a difference in their values.

I don't know if a study has been done, but I feel like most people under 30 here are opposed to Lol 21, regardless of their race. They identify more with the multicultural vision that the ROC champions.

My co-residents tend to be "Quebecer first," but still proudly Canadian, whereas the minorities tend to feel a stronger attachment to Canada. That being said, I don't see this cultural chasm that supposedly exists. Maybe it's more noticeable in the older generations.

[JHikka]

Moving these posts here since they relate more to Quebec culture and less to Quebec govenment vis-a-vis ROC and governmental machinations.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Edwara19

I mean I hang out with Hatians and Moroccans outside of school. My residency program is mostly made up of White Quebecers mainly from the Montreal region and I haven't noticed a difference in their values.

I don't know if a study has been done, but I feel like most people under 30 here are opposed to Lol 21, regardless of their race. They identify more with the multicultural vision that the ROC champions.

My co-residents tend to be "Quebecer first," but still proudly Canadian, whereas the minorities tend to feel a stronger attachment to Canada. That being said, I don't see this cultural chasm that supposedly exists. Maybe it's more noticeable in the older generations.

I live in Gatineau which is just about as "Canadian" as you can get in Quebec while remaining francophone and without being in an anglo enclave in Montreal.

I have teens and outside of pandemic times my house is revolving door of young people between the ages of 17 and 21.

Most of my immediate family and my wife's are in Ontario from eastern Ontario the GTA. Quite a few teens and young adults there as well.

The Quebec young people in Gatineau I know are fairly diverse and not just French Canadians but are still noticeably different from the Ontario young people I know. Not Japan-Congo different, but still different enough as I said. And I am not just talking about language. One of my kids recently told me that about one quarter of their friends were in favour of Quebec independence. I found that quite surprising given the movement is in the doldrums.)

If you ask someone who works at universities like U of Ottawa which get a lot of students from both provinces, they'll tell you the Quebec kids have a lot of notable "cultural" differences from the Ontario kids (not just talking about TV and music). This is even true of Québécois francophone kids from Hull vs. Franco-Ontarien kids from Orleans, and they're only 15-20 km apart.

So I guess we have different experiences.