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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2021, 7:23 PM
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Also happy to see Aylmer getting its long-overdue 4th Dollarama location
Every day I passed by this place, hoping it would not be a Dollarama. Then, they posted the logo on top of the unfinished building.. to let us know that yes, you are going to get another Dollarama.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2021, 4:47 AM
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The projection here is hilarious. You show a picture of a proposal for a 135 acre corporate campus and mixed use development in Texas as an example of what should go in a 400 meter x 150 meter lot in a Gatineau suburb...SMH.
To comment on the second picture, all that was added was trees and greenery to the picture. Take that away and it is the same as Destination V. If the developers show you a rendering with trees around the stores and housing dwellings, will that make you happy?
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2021, 4:50 AM
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It looks like all the cheap-o auto dealers on the west side of Vanier were tantalized by buyout offers. They are gone.

There is a house at the end of rue Seto (is that one of the developer's names?) that has newly sprouted street lights planted in their front yard.

I saw that this week, all the cars are gone from the Auto Dealer. I wonder what they have planned, possibly an office building. I did here initially a SAAQ office was supposed to come to Destination V.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2021, 4:55 AM
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
Every day I passed by this place, hoping it would not be a Dollarama. Then, they posted the logo on top of the unfinished building.. to let us know that yes, you are going to get another Dollarama.
Gatineau proper has 5, Hull has 1, Kanata has 6, Orleans has 7, and surprisingly Barrhaven has only 3... but they are close to Nepean, which has 5. 4 in Aylmer/Plateau seems very average. I'm really happy to be getting a second one in the Plateau, the one we have now is the busiest one I have ever been to. I avoid it unless absolutely necessary during Covid.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2021, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
Again, good design does not necessarily equal more expensive. For example, they could break up one of the massive block buildings and spread out the residential above the retail blocks, create a better pedestrian experience, and I don't think adding a small on-site usable green space or parkette is going to bankrupt the project.

Anyways, I'm going to leave it here as your arguments have become a bit incoherent. You have argued that the neighbourhood is a well executed, master planned community, with "luxury" apartments and houses, but also argued that the neighbourhood is not deserving of excellence in urban design and the ideal location for a cheap low-end development.

Getting back to the initial post. In no way should the developer or community be proud of this project. There is a reason the city and "NIMBY's" fought this to the bitter end.
So your "better" design is not more expensive? Or not much more expensive? Developers do get things wrong but the demand for more expensive retail and housing is probably not there at this location. Sure some more greenspace should probably be required but that naturally does add a cost. The fact is the CMA is car centric because people value space and driving directly to their destination and not even a 37 cent carbon tax, which if you believe those who say the end of oil and electric car revolution is coming will be counteracted by the drop in oil prices, isn't going to do much to change that by 2030. IF we have autonomous electric cars for $15k in today's dollars as many claim we will likely be more not less car centric by then.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2021, 2:09 PM
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
It looks like all the cheap-o auto dealers on the west side of Vanier were tantalized by buyout offers. They are gone.

There is a house at the end of rue Seto (is that one of the developer's names?) that has newly sprouted street lights planted in their front yard.
This is not allowed under Quebec's toponomy rules. Hasn't been allowed for quite some time.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2021, 2:11 PM
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This crap was probably approved before the current mayor had any control over it.

Not saying he could have done something about it.. he probably could have.
In some cases, the rights of developers to build Crap X, Y and Z actually go back to old zoning decisions made by the pre-merger municipalities. They're often grandfathered-in. Challenging them would involve lots of legal $$$ so the city doesn't bother.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2021, 2:15 PM
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I think the issue people have with this is not so much that it's happening (it's happening all over the place anyway), but rather that it's trumpeted as a bold new move in commercial development. It really isn't.

Claims to the contrary just come off as good old fashioned marketing.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2021, 2:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think the issue people have with this is not so much that it's happening (it's happening all over the place anyway), but rather that it's trumpeted as a bold new move in commercial development. It really isn't.

Claims to the contrary just come off as good old fashioned marketing.
You hit the nail on the head, at least for my point of view.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2021, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
Anyways, I'm going to leave it here as your arguments have become a bit incoherent. You have argued that the neighbourhood is a well executed, master planned community, with "luxury" apartments and houses, but also argued that the neighbourhood is not deserving of excellence in urban design and the ideal location for a cheap low-end development.
The neighbourhood IS a well executed master planned community. The variety of residential offering is part of that. No need for the quotes around "luxury". Agora, Nuvo and Central offer very nice luxury apartments. 2 Bedroom + Mezzanine apartments in Agora are over $4000/month, hardly a place for 'people who can't afford to live in Ottawa'. A 3 bedroom 2 garage single family home in the newer Western end of the neighbourhood sells for over $600,000. This neighbourhood has luxury alongside some of the most affordable housing stock in the region and everything in between. That makes it quite unique when compared with other suburban communities in the National Capital Region.

From a commercial perspective, the neighbourhood is lagging in it's offering compared to demand. That's why I approve of 'Destination V'. We have an incredible new mixed use development going up in the heart of the community already. What we need more of is the basics and 'Destination V' will offer that in a location that is perfectly suited to more simple box store retail. The apartments are adjacent to the new retail but will be more part of the fabric of the low rise residential neighbourhood along Katimivik than to the box store mall.

I will also 'leave it here'. This is my final 'incoherent' ramble in response to your comments on this topic.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 10:57 PM
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This is not allowed under Quebec's toponomy rules. Hasn't been allowed for quite some time.
I'm wondering what a Seto is. Must be some sort of rodent native to the Boucher Forest?
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 6:49 AM
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Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
I actually don't even understand your argument or train of thought. We should be striving for excellence in every single development. Why do you think we should be allowed to put up cheap strip malls everywhere? Do you think good urban design = more expensive? A better designed development would almost definitely return way more on their investment, allow for greater density, be less car-dependent, have proper on-site amenities, provide a higher quality of life, and generate greater tax returns for the municipality.

Also, you seem to be hung up on the size of the development in the rendering I used. To avoid the image from continuing to be used as a red herring, i can post one of 2000 other great examples of a more similar size as Destination V if you'd prefer?
OMG, drive on Du Plateau from Vanier to Grives, it is all residential and schools! Again, anytime commercial areas are planned, NIMBYs come out full force to fight it. Face it, Ottawa/Gatineau is a car-centric city as much as they want to deny, this is at least a good first step to create some central place for all the residential folks to go to. Before COVID, Cage aux Sports was a central place for folks to go to, let's hope they have something planned like that in Destination V.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 2:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jt-mtl View Post
OMG, drive on Du Plateau from Vanier to Grives, it is all residential and schools! Again, anytime commercial areas are planned, NIMBYs come out full force to fight it. Face it, Ottawa/Gatineau is a car-centric city as much as they want to deny, this is at least a good first step to create some central place for all the residential folks to go to. Before COVID, Cage aux Sports was a central place for folks to go to, let's hope they have something planned like that in Destination V.
We are getting some very cool places to hang out in Agora. Places to eat, places to drink, and most importantly we are getting an urban rooftop Nordic spa! I think 'Destination V' is a misnomer, I believe it will just be a standard box mall, an extension of the existing mall. We'll see if it gets a sit down restaurant. Quebec isn't big on pubs unfortunately so I doubt we'd see the equivalent of say a Barley Mow, a Royal Oak or a Grace O'Malleys. The British is an anomaly over here.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jt-mtl View Post
OMG, drive on Du Plateau from Vanier to Grives, it is all residential and schools! Again, anytime commercial areas are planned, NIMBYs come out full force to fight it. Face it, Ottawa/Gatineau is a car-centric city as much as they want to deny, this is at least a good first step to create some central place for all the residential folks to go to. Before COVID, Cage aux Sports was a central place for folks to go to, let's hope they have something planned like that in Destination V.
I think you are misusing the term NIMBY. Those of us critiquing this proposal are not opposed to development, we are opposed to continuing with more car centric development of this variety. I have yet to hear anything that separates this from the misguided big box around a parking lot style development that has been going on for 30 years. Throwing a few apartment buildings at the back of a parking lot does not make it mixed use.

I get that the area needs more retail and restaurants. That doesn't mean that this is the right way to build them.

You keep saying that this is a good first step. What exactly is it a good first step towards? I don't see any possibility for this to develop into anything better without a complete redesign.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 3:05 PM
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By the old plans, we could expect 3 restaurants there or even 4. With no doubt they will have at least 2. Hoping its not another tim hortons or mcdo. Cage aux sports is working great in the area. I would love to see restaurants that you find in mtl, TO or just ottawa. 3 brewers would fit great there or even zibo, souvlaki bar, carlos n pepe...out of subject, i know aubainerie will open a new store on the plateau area, hoping it ll be in the smartcenter. Adonis would be amazing in the area, i bet it would be always full. Decathlon would be also amazing.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 3:13 PM
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By the old plans, we could expect 3 restaurants there or even 4. With no doubt they will have at least 2. Hoping its not another tim hortons or mcdo. Cage aux sports is working great in the area. I would love to see restaurants that you find in mtl, TO or just ottawa. 3 brewers would fit great there or even zibo, souvlaki bar, carlos n pepe...out of subject, i know aubainerie will open a new store on the plateau area, hoping it ll be in the smartcenter. Adonis would be amazing in the area, i bet it would be always full. Decathlon would be also amazing.
Covid might affect the plans for restaurants, but we'll see. I don't know if many restaurant owners/chains will be interested in investing capital in new restaurants that might sit empty for most of the first year they are built. Maybe the developer will reserve space for future restaurant development. Aubanerie would be excellent here. Adonis is what I'm hoping for most. I don't think there is space in this development for a second grocery store sized building like Decathalon.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 3:47 PM
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They need to re-think restaurants in these suburban box store areas. Often they have very small patios or no patios at all. Occo Kitchen in Orleans, which had not patio, was able to take over a chunk of the oversized parking lot. That's not always possible or allowed by landlords.

Box stores, existing and new, need to right-size their parking lots in order to allow more space for pedestrians and cyclists, but also restaurant patios.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 4:45 PM
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By what i see in the rendering, we see 2 or even 3 patios. The model of the dix 30 on a small scale slightly modified, with underground parking, pedestrian focus on its main axis with trees all along and residentials addition over the commercial venus would have been the summum IMO
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Capital613 View Post
By the old plans, we could expect 3 restaurants there or even 4. With no doubt they will have at least 2. Hoping its not another tim hortons or mcdo. Cage aux sports is working great in the area. I would love to see restaurants that you find in mtl, TO or just ottawa. 3 brewers would fit great there or even zibo, souvlaki bar, carlos n pepe...out of subject, i know aubainerie will open a new store on the plateau area, hoping it ll be in the smartcenter. Adonis would be amazing in the area, i bet it would be always full. Decathlon would be also amazing.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2021, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
I'm wondering what a Seto is. Must be some sort of rodent native to the Boucher Forest?
Your answer: the first family of Chinese origin to settle in the Aylmer area.

https://www3.gatineau.ca/servicesenl...NoDossier=3549

I kinda like the way we choose street names (now).
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