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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2009, 5:17 PM
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Spent time in Toronto yesterday and met a panhandler who is from Hamilton haha. He moved to TO because he said he gets more money from panhandling in TO.

From what I notice panhandlers in TO are poor whereas in Hamilton panhanlders seem to all have a drug/drinking problem.
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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2009, 7:51 PM
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Another good contribution is to leave "returnable bottles" for recycling as the needy do travel many miles in search of them. And most depend on them to eat.

Mic67
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2009, 9:16 PM
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Quote:
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Spent time in Toronto yesterday and met a panhandler who is from Hamilton haha. He moved to TO because he said he gets more money from panhandling in TO.

From what I notice panhandlers in TO are poor whereas in Hamilton panhanlders seem to all have a drug/drinking problem.
Hahaha..

I would be interested in panhandling economics... Hamilton's cheaper cost of living vs higher potential payout in Toronto.

It could be a Freakenomics chapter.
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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2009, 10:23 PM
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This is sick. you guys are laughing. Sounds like real scientific studies from you all.

I purposely do not return my beer cans or glass returnables. I put them in my blue box and they are all gone before the trucks get to it. In my *new* neigbhourhood, I've seen the contrived bikes these bottle/can collectors make with the rubbermaid containers... some are pulling 4 and pushing one.... it's impressive. They are up at 400am *sometimes when I'm just coming home* and working hard to earn a few bucks.

Some people do what they need to do.
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  #45  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2009, 11:17 PM
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Board to review request to police panhandlers

By Craig Campbell, News Staff
News
Nov 20, 2009
http://www.hamiltonmountainnews.com/news/article/195036

Police will review what powers they may, or may not, have to deal with panhandlers and loiterers in downtown Hamilton after Tourism Hamilton asked for an update on plans for the city’s core.

Chief Brian Mullan said a meeting with the Tourism Hamilton board was scheduled this week to discuss the request. But he suggested loitering and panhandling are not necessarily policing issues.

In a letter to Hamilton Police Services Board chair Bernie Morelli, Tourism Hamilton board president Mark Farrugia stated: “At a recent board meeting of Tourism Hamilton, the Board discussed the impact panhandlers and loiterers are having on conventions and events hosted in the downtown core.”

Farrugia identified areas around Copps Coliseum, Summers Lane –between the convention centre and art gallery, King Street and Gore Park as “particularly troublesome”. The letter states there is a perception among some convention and event planners that Hamilton’s downtown is not safe.

At Tuesday afternoon’s Police Services Board meeting, Mullan noted the board has approved several programs in the downtown, including security cameras and a mounted unit, to help address ongoing perceptions of downtown Hamilton as a dangerous place.

“I think we’ve progressed dynamically from where we were three, four or five years ago,” Mullan said.

But he said some of the issues Farrugia raises in the letter are not related to policing, that panhandlers and loiterers are beyond the police service’s control.

Police board member Mayor Fred Eisenberger said he’d like a report from police staff on what the service can do, and can not do, in relation panhandlers and loiters, as well as summarizing what has already been done to change perceptions of the downtown.
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  #46  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2009, 1:11 AM
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2 panhandlers on Summers Lane.... THAT'S WHY WE DONT HAVE PEOPLE DOWNTOWN??????

ANd don't get me started on loitering. We're all supposed to be in our Rec Rooms, smokin pot and playing XBox. Don't go outside and socialize... NOOO in Hamilton that's criminal... we have a term for that.... "Loitering"

Have THESE IDIOTS been to Europe... that's ALL THEY DO.... is LOITER... after dinner.... only they call it "Living". They socialize... walk around... converse... meet people.. congregate... share stories.

Tourism Hamilton????

you first have to bring tourists here... buddy... before they see one or two panhandlers.... omg.... They are not even coming here to see your 'loitering problem' in the first place.
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Last edited by realcity; Jan 19, 2010 at 4:36 PM.
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  #47  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2009, 1:25 AM
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ROK = ON Dude

Mods will Prob. delete.

Though I have no prob. with Morelli and I like councilman Sam.
I will probably financially contribute to both their campaigns.

Mic67
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2009, 2:17 AM
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The most dangerous thing about downtown Hamilton is reckless drivers: speeding, making unsafe lane changes and cutting off pedestrians.
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  #49  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2009, 2:53 AM
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Wrong, yet again.

IDIOTS AND A HOLES....NO shortage in the hammer.

Mic67
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  #50  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2009, 12:12 PM
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Our core needs to be people place

November 23, 2009
R. John Dolbec
The Hamilton Spectator
CEO Hamilton Chamber of Commerce
http://www.thespec.com/Opinions/Lett...article/677634

Re: 'Don't blame fear of core on panhandlers' (Opinion, Nov. 19)

The demise of Hamilton's downtown core has been 30 years, or more, in the making, and its rebirth will not be instantaneous.

Nevertheless, the results of desperate acts remain visible everywhere. In any successful city, the core is high-priced prime real estate comprised of small offices, apartments and condominiums, with quality shops accessible at ground level.

The poor image of our core lies not in the raw numbers of "panhandlers," but in the disproportionate numbers of disadvantaged seen there in the absence of a more balanced mix of people. The fact that panhandlers are not at all dangerous, or that our downtown is indeed truly safe, are both irrelevant. The point is that people feel the core is an unattractive, indeed, for many, an unthinkable place to be.

On any given day in almost any European city, there are usually more pickpockets than all of the panhandlers of southwestern Ontario combined. Yet, most have no image problem. Their streets are overflowing with residents, workers, tourists, artists and students who vastly outnumber the rest. All cities have their disadvantaged, and no one disputes that poverty is real and poverty reduction vital.

Nevertheless, successful cities do not make its core the Mecca for those in social need, to the exclusion of others. The problem can be summarized in one sentence: Attractive people place or Tin Pan Alley?

So, we need to stick to the plan. We need to do what is necessary to attract quality living and the rest will inevitably follow. That basic premise will guide what needs to be done. Moreover, let us not get sidetracked any longer by desperate, or wishful, thinking, allowing ourselves to lose focus on the side issues.

-- R. John Dolbec, CEO, Hamilton Chamber of Commerce
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2009, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
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Wrong, yet again.

IDIOTS AND A HOLES....NO shortage in the hammer.

Mic67
As opposed to?
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2009, 5:55 AM
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As opposed to kind and considerate people.

Ok like the person that walks around this city with a hammer up there sleeve and give a wack on store front windows, which i found out from some store owners on Ottawa St. If you pass by the Ottawa st BIA office check it out - it got done, I saw it a couple of weeks ago.

Now does this sort of action combined with all the other negatives of this city that are caused by few qualify them for the adjectives I used.

I use to care about this city, and from time to time I will still clean up the hood. Oh ya the vegetation growing between the curb and sidewalk, is not the greening of the city, but an indication of how often the streets get cleaned. Etc, etc,,,,,,,,

mic67
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 12:23 PM
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Cleaning up Hamilton's core
Social agencies asked to weigh in

January 08, 2010
Daniel Nolan
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/701114

The city wants to bring downtown stakeholders together to devise ways to tackle crime and safety concerns and turn around the negative perception of the core.

The idea comes from Hamilton police -- who have been criticized by Councillor Bob Bratina for not clamping down on downtown crime and letting "unfriendly persons" occupy Gore Park. It's being endorsed by members of the police services board, including Mayor Fred Eisenberger.

The Downtown Business Improvement Area shares concerns about panhandlers and unsavoury characters hurting convention business and has called for action.

Eisenberger will ask city manager Chris Murray to convene "a multi-stakeholder forum ... with the eye to knocking this (issue) down and resolving it."

Those invited will include social agencies and business groups.

Police say they are not ignoring crime in the core and note in a eight-page report by Division 1 Superintendent Bill Stewart that "there are more police officers assigned to this small geographic area than any other area in the city."

The complement of core officers stands at 16 and a permanent foot patrol officer has been assigned to James Street North. Stewart also noted Hamilton police work with the local BIAs to tackle crime and local police get help covering the core in the summer months from the RCMP and auxiliary officers.

He also noted surveillance cameras have been in the core since 2004, regular drug investigations have culled dealers and a mounted unit will hit the streets this spring and its "primary responsibility will be in the downtown core."

Bratina, who is calling for a downtown cleanup prior to the 2015 Pan Am Games, backs the strategy and says social agencies should have been part of the solution for a long time. He said he will propose a freeze on social service agencies locating in the downtown core because of the problems with street disorder caused by anti-social behaviour.

He noted at the Remembrance Day ceremony in November there was a woman wandering around swearing. After the ceremony, he said those in attendance left quickly and the downtown was soon deserted.

"It's just ridiculous and it's got to stop," said Bratina. "The police are right. They can't solve all of these problems. The social service agencies have to be part of the solution."

Stewart said police do face legal limitations in their efforts, including the fact panhandling is not illegal. Police can only act if a panhandler is being aggressive, abusive or is intoxicated.

"In many cases, no offence is committed by the panhandler," Stewart said. "For example, someone sitting or standing with a cup and sign would not be considered aggressive."

He noted police have arrested and charged 14 chronic offenders. They have been hit with in excess of $82,000 in fines, but have not paid any because Stewart said they have no means to do so. Police no longer have authority to arrest and jail those who refuse to pay their fines.

Stewart noted the city passed a new public nuisance bylaw earlier this year in which police can charge people for urinating in a public place or knocking over garbage cans or mailboxes. He said police cannot charge loiterers because they have constitutional rights.

"Persons are allowed to stand on a public street," Stewart said. "The police can encourage them to move along; however, we are limited as to how far we can push the issue. Most of the regulars in the core are keenly aware of this."

While the mayor backs a multi-agency forum, he did wonder if concerns expressed about the core were perception.

"People remember the downtown of old," the mayor said.

"They hear about the downtown of the new and maybe what they hear is not the way it is."
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 12:27 PM
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Simple solution.......

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Did a quick google search and sure enough Calgary has a panhandling bylaw....

http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server....anhandling.htm

You cannot panhandle within 10m of the entrance to a bank, automated teller machine, transit stop or pedestrian walkway (pedestrian walkways include +15, or any below or above grade walkway, but not a sidewalk).
You cannot panhandle between 8 p.m. and 8 a.m.
A panhandler cannot obstruct the passage of, walk next to or follow the person being solicited.
You cannot solicit money from an occupant in a motor vehicle.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2010, 4:32 PM
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So 11 days later, we witness what they meant by cracking down on pan-handlers.

Ticketing a street musician.

Well done Hamilton, well done.

http://www.900chml.com/Channels/Reg/...spx?ID=1186143
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2010, 4:42 PM
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Hamilton is so messed up. I used to do tons of busking in London, ON, but I never did in Hamilton because I knew I'd get hassled.

Meanwhile I know for a fact that the drug trade has continued unchanged over the years, despite beat cops and useless spy cameras. You need some weed or crack? Check with the guys hanging around in front of Tim Horton's or across the street in Gore Park. They'll hook you up.

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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2010, 5:46 PM
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It was a newbie downtown cop and so it's likely he'll get away with the fine if he fights it, which he will.

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/707548
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2010, 6:17 PM
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that's ridiculous.... regardless newbie or having to take the time and energy to fight a ticket/fine that should've never been issued in the first place.

look at Flar's pic and then deicide as a cop, "hmm, what two people do I go after? The fiddler or drug dealer? I'm going with the fiddler, he's the kind of unsavory person downtown that we're all talking about".

What was it a slow day of drug-dealing and a lack of drunks yelling and fighting? That he had to ticket this guy.



yeah he looks like a threat... not the guy going after Flar and giving him the finger.

Yep panhandlers are the problem.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2010, 6:34 PM
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Panhandling is absolutely a big problem for downtown Hamilton. I'm glad we are seeing more and more cops on the streets and sure newbie cops will make mistakes, we're only humans.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2010, 7:46 PM
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Panhandling is absolutely a big problem for downtown Hamilton. I'm glad we are seeing more and more cops on the streets and sure newbie cops will make mistakes, we're only humans.
I agree that it's a problem. It's not a problem for people like me because we're numb to it, just getting asked all the time and mumbling 'no sorry got no change' or whatever like it's a reflex. But it will always be a problem for people like this http://www.thespec.com/Opinions/Lett...article/707540 who ultimately need to be comfortable going downtown.

As for today's incident, it would help new cops to first know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to downtown and its people. It's something they have to learn on the job because they don't likely live or spend time there otherwise. Like the ones who yelled and threatened me from their car for standing outside the Skydragon taking pictures.
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