Is there a future for the Diagram/City Section?

[Tim B]

Please tell me,
is there something wrong with my computer or is this so-called '5-year upgrading-plan', causing these servererrors when opening any diagram-, edit- or citypage??

Man, I wish it was still 2002 when diagram-page (with the old logical searchform) worked properly. I have a question to the people who are responsible for creating this site: Why is there so little effort in making the most important and unique aspect of the site (the diagrams) working correctly?? Because since the big upgrading in 2003, it isn't improved in my opion. No big changes (especially the searchform) are made since then.

And we were shown a new searchform a couple years ago which we never heard of again... I am a little disappointed that all the effort of the people behind this site is going to the forum which is in my opion is dead. 'Only' the American and Canadians are still posting here. The rest of the world, especially europians have left to SSC. This post is not meant to slagging of Dylan and the others who working on this site, but to let you know I a little fed up with this site, its speed, its layout etc. Maybe you have to consider a merging between SSC and SSP?? Most of the drawing are displayed there is well...

Please if there a big changes coming up, keep us informed, were not making all these diagrams for nothing you know.

Greetings Tim/THEc

[M.K.]

I like the layout as it is. Maybe the diagrams could work better, but seems some fixings are beeing made. I do not like SSC layout. This is much better. The search should be as default all ticked, my oppinion. In Bldg requests, maybe a pre-formated online form would be great to just fill-out the camps about data, instead of copying the rich-text form and manual editing. But the rest is pretty good.

I am in Germany for example and participate a lot to the forum. I saw many others, not only americans and canadians participating a lot also. So i do not understand this point.

The site in my oppinion as a database diagram is almost perfect to me. Of course some little improvements like the 100m high line a little bit darker than the others could be implemented... but comparing to other building sites, this is the best.

[vid]

I agree with you entirely, the diagram system is really suffering and I wouldn't be surprised if that is why diagram activity has slowed down so much as of late. More investment needs to be put into the diagrams.

And while the forums are dominated by Americans (Both from the North and South continents) international members do visit the diagrams often, many people at SkyscraperCity, upon hearing about SkyscraperPage, mention how much they like the diagrams. Obviously, they are the most well known part of the website and should be on the forefront of future improvements.

If the forum disappeared, I would just shrug it off. Should the diagrams disappear, I will be devastated.

[Tim B]

Originally Posted by Mkmillenium

I like the layout as it is. Maybe the diagrams could work better, but seems some fixings are beeing made. I do not like SSC layout. This is much better. The search should be as default all ticked, my oppinion. In Bldg requests, maybe a pre-formated online form would be great to just fill-out the camps about data, instead of copying the rich-text form and manual editing. But the rest is pretty good.

I am in Germany for example and participate a lot to the forum. I saw many others, not only americans and canadians participating a lot also. So i do not understand this point.

The site in my oppinion as a database diagram is almost perfect to me. Of course some little improvements like the 100m high line a little bit darker than the others could be implemented... but comparing to other building sites, this is the best.

You're quite new. So maybe you're not familiar how it was back in 2002. And I'm not talking about details/improvements like darker lines, but the big picture.

I agree with you on your last sentence. This is the best site for comparing, and only because of the 1000 of hours of time which they put in it. I'm working over 5 year on the diagrams for example So why is there not more effort from the sitemakers to make this unique feature work better ???

[M.K.]

It is true, I am quite new here, only 4 months, but I like as it is and can not compare to the old version. I hope good improvements should be made. If the Diagrams sections Bugs would be fixed, I am already happy. Let`s see

[Mike K.]

We're working on it, guys. This stuff isn't cheap to host and upgrades need to be done right to avoid costly mistakes. We're well aware of the server issues which is why we're working on them.

The complexity of the system is such that stuff can't be upgraded and code can't be modified on a whim. Dylan's work on upgrading the code will keep this site going for years to come but it's no simple task and it certainly shouldn't be rushed. The site has grown and has grown quickly hence us having to play catch-up.

We're appreciative of everyone's patience but unlike SSC where the organization has a lot of financial support, we don't have the money to have a full-time or even a part-time server admin taking care of servers nor can we afford to just add new servers without investigating all of our options.

I do agree, however, that we should provide more information on what we're working on and perhaps even timelines. Would that be something the majority would support?

[LeeWilson]

I think a thread dedicated to periodic updates and possibly including timelines might be nice. A lack of response and updates makes it seem like it is just being ignored, even if it is not really the case. It would be nice for those people like Tim B who have been waiting patiently but have seen little in the way of results up to now to know that work really is happening.

[Mike K.]

I am working on a page at this moment that will provide a sense of status. I think we'll link it from the main page and also link to it from the forum.

It will provide a high-level run-down on whats being worked on with timelines and remarks.

[SomeFormOFhuman]

EDIT... Double Post

[SomeFormOFhuman]

Originally Posted by Tim B

'Only' the American and Canadians are still posting here. The rest of the world...

I'm still here, and I am in neither these continents. You should probably know by now where I am from.

But anyway, I think this is a case for Dylan to shoot over.

[LMich]

The diagram is running very poorly, today. I can barely approve anything, add any new entries, etc...I realize the complexity, but this has been going on for many months, now, and couple that with a forum that works when it wants to, and to say that editor morale is low would be an understatement. I'm just about done doing anything to the diagram, anymore.

[Mike K.]

A page has been setup with a progress report:

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/update

Just so everyone is aware, the entire diagram system is being re-coded virtually from the ground up. That one project could easily take several months on its own but it's been taking place in between server administration, site redesign and system overhauls for the entire site. So essentially the code running the entire operation is being redone, which is why things are taking so long.

We will be making an effort to keep everyone updated on the status of the development process. The first step will be replacing the server that runs the diagrams/cities pages which should be completed in August. That will make a big difference especially for the editors who are understandably having a difficult time with the system.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Mkmillenium

I like the layout as it is.

I'm sorry but I cant agree, I loved the old Home Page. It was so simple, clean and professional. The New one is just never worked for me. I miss the old home page with the long pictures with a cluster of various diagrams on the left side of the page.

And I really do wish Towers, Lowrises, Churches, Stadiums, and undrawn buildings do come back to the default diagrams.

I think Building pages should have more information, like what year a building was Renovated, a District/Neighborhood Entry, so people can see buildings in a specific District or Neighborhood and even a Companies section to list the companies, instead of putting them in the description. We used to have one, but now its inaccessable.?

The home page says the gallery is coming back. Will it actually come back? Remember how users can upload pictures of buildings, and they'd appear on the left side of a building page? I hope it dose come back, I loved the Gallery!

Originally Posted by LMich

The diagram is running very poorly, today. I can barely approve anything, add any new entries, etc...I realize the complexity, but this has been going on for many months, now, and couple that with a forum that works when it wants to, and to say that editor morale is low would be an understatement. I'm just about done doing anything to the diagram, anymore.

I agree. Lmich has hung on, but ever so rarely dose the Database actually work. I used to do a lot to this site, (wasnt I 2nd in number of edits back then?) but now I've pretty much stopped adding buildings, since no one will draw them and they dont appear in the diagrams.

I make 3D Models for companies and I always provide a link to SSP's entry on that building, and use SSP for my models, but now its become pretty hard since 1 in a million chance you'd actually get the buildings page instead of that damn Cannot Find Server message.

This is happening as I post. I actually have to use Emporis (gasp!) And I so prefer SSP.

I know this stuff isnt cheap, but this has been going on for Months, The SSP Diagrams has so muny opprotunities but the Diagrams have stayed the same for years. The Server problem just goes up and down every few weeks.

MikeK, if the new Server comes in August, good, the current one is just plain horrible.

[Mike K.]

We were caught off-guard by the rush in traffic that occurred over the last few months. We knew the server was getting busy so we began with the overhaul and it wasn't until the last two months that the congestion grew exponentially and effectively began suffocating most people's chance of getting onto the diagram system. It's a bad situation we're in but we are doing what we can to address it. If it wasn't for the sudden surge in traffic, we'd be ok and our roll-out of the design et al would be on schedule, but with the added pressure of the server not working properly we've been sidetracked to some degree.

In any case, some of the systems that SSP ran on were created years ago and were due for a lot of updating and upgrading. Updating them has resulted in the growing pains we're unfortunately going through now.

[LeeWilson]

I am looking forward to seeing the site back up to normal speeds. I've noticed that several good illustrators have stopped drawing. Hopefully the revitalization of the diagrams may attract them back.

[Mike K.]

Originally Posted by Patrick

I think Building pages should have more information, like what year a building was Renovated, a District/Neighborhood Entry, so people can see buildings in a specific District or Neighborhood and even a Companies section to list the companies, instead of putting them in the description. We used to have one, but now its inaccessable.?

There is a lot of opportunity for expanding the database, but not until the database is accessible. There is a lot more than can be done to make that database even better than it currently is.

Originally Posted by Patrick

The home page says the gallery is coming back. Will it actually come back? Remember how users can upload pictures of buildings, and they'd appear on the left side of a building page? I hope it dose come back, I loved the Gallery!

I know, the pictures were awesome. But they were also, at the time, the biggest culprits for server lag. Once they were removed there was some respite on the old server but now the volume of visitors has once against pushed the server to its limits. The intent is indeed to have the gallery go back up for the cities database AND, if we can swing it, the old gallery where users could upload their own photos. The latter user-driven public gallery system was inefficient and Dylan had to take it down. We'll be replacing it with a system that is efficient and works with the other systems on the site (did I say systems enough times in this thread? ).

Originally Posted by Patrick

MikeK, if the new Server comes in August, good, the current one is just plain horrible.

Yup, that's the plan. The wheels are in motion, the server has been acquired, and a professional admin is working it to get it breathing. Once the server is setup off we go.

Originally Posted by LeeWilson

I am looking forward to seeing the site back up to normal speeds. I've noticed that several good illustrators have stopped drawing. Hopefully the revitalization of the diagrams may attract them back.

Dylan has been in touch with some of those illustrators and as all things in life, individuals move on, their situations change, they start school, or some guys even joined the military. Hopefully those that chose to leave the site because of the server issues will return once we're up and running.

[M.K.]

In my oppinion the advantage this site is the drawings diagrams only, those awesome illustrations. I would not overloaded or overcarry the diagrams part with photo gallery when other sites has those references like emporis, which a link here is everytime given. On the other hand people can upload trash photos in forum part and it would make even slower and buggy the diagram part. It would be no sense also repeating in diagrams part. But as I said this is my oppinion. So a gallery would be undesirible from me.

[LeeWilson]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

There is a lot of opportunity for expanding the Dylan has been in touch with some of those illustrators and as all things in life, individuals move on, their situations change, they start school, or some guys even joined the military. Hopefully those that chose to leave the site because of the server issues will return once we're up and running.

Yeah, I understand how it is. Sometimes that's just how it goes.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Mkmillenium

In my oppinion the advantage this site is the drawings diagrams only, those awesome illustrations. I would not overloaded or overcarry the diagrams part with photo gallery when other sites has those references like emporis, which a link here is everytime given. On the other hand people can upload trash photos in forum part and it would make even slower and buggy the diagram part. It would be no sense also repeating in diagrams part. But as I said this is my oppinion. So a gallery would be undesirible from me.

You wernt here when the Gallery is up, it was awsome. Sorry but stop acting like you've been here for years. If you where here since the 90's, you'd see how the site has changed.

[vid]

How will the new gallery be set up? Will it be like the old one or more of a flickr style where people can comment, draw boxes to point stuff out, and whatnot?