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  #821  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2008, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
Doubtful this will have a huge effect in that regard. Unless you know of 500,000 people who are willing to pay $25+ per day to commute.
It could have a huge effect, but I think the positives far outweigh the potential negatives. However, the fact that it does throw Fresno into the commuter sheds of both the Bay Area AND Los Angeles is a little worrisome. As others have said, $25 is really nothing for a daily commute compared to the commutes some have now from the Central Valley to SJ or SF when you consider time cost and parking cost, in addition to the gas costs.
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  #822  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 5:45 PM
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It could have a huge effect, but I think the positives far outweigh the potential negatives. However, the fact that it does throw Fresno into the commuter sheds of both the Bay Area AND Los Angeles is a little worrisome. As others have said, $25 is really nothing for a daily commute compared to the commutes some have now from the Central Valley to SJ or SF when you consider time cost and parking cost, in addition to the gas costs.


$25 or more per day (for parking or train or whatever), plus unbelievably high housing expenses, and nasty traffic, all without a decent expense-to-income ratio? I honestly cannot understand why people aren't leaving in droves. Well, the middle-income folks probably are moving to Portland, while the poor Mexicans keep flooding California. They don't mind if they share a 2 bedroom house with 10 people. They definitely won't be riding this train for commuting purposes. Bring your intelligent butt (back?) to Michigan, telecommute to CA, and make 6 figures in an affordable place, like my mother does with UC San Francisco. Your house will cost under $250,000 and would probably double the square footage you currently have. Your extra disposable income means you could have a killer loft in downtown Ann Arbor, Royal Oak, Detroit, Birmingham, Grand Rapids and still have money to fly back to CA every other weekend.
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  #823  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by StethJeff View Post
Murrieta? Industry? Sylmar?

Are that many stops really that necesary?
Why wouldn't they be?
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  #824  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
I'm more excited about those hypothetical extensions.


Are you talking about the Desert Xpress rail to Las Vegas and that other high-speed rail to Phoenix?
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  #825  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2008, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
$25 or more per day (for parking or train or whatever), plus unbelievably high housing expenses, and nasty traffic, all without a decent expense-to-income ratio? I honestly cannot understand why people aren't leaving in droves. Well, the middle-income folks probably are moving to Portland, while the poor Mexicans keep flooding California. They don't mind if they share a 2 bedroom house with 10 people. They definitely won't be riding this train for commuting purposes. Bring your intelligent butt (back?) to Michigan, telecommute to CA, and make 6 figures in an affordable place, like my mother does with UC San Francisco. Your house will cost under $250,000 and would probably double the square footage you currently have. Your extra disposable income means you could have a killer loft in downtown Ann Arbor, Royal Oak, Detroit, Birmingham, Grand Rapids and still have money to fly back to CA every other weekend.
But then I'd be freezing my ass off for half of the year

I don't really get the idea of super-commuting either - I live a five minute walk away from my office and get to walk past a few dozen restaurants and cafes along the way. I can say that it is definitely not "10 Mexicans crammed into a 2 bedroom house" out in the commuter burbs in the Central Valley that are making the drive now, and could conceivably be using the train from Fresno in the future, for the most part. The less-well off immigrants of all stripes tend to cram into the 2 bedroom house in the core of the area, not in the exurbs.
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  #826  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
I honestly cannot understand why people aren't leaving in droves.
actually, they are. ever heard of the term "Californiacation"?

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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
Well, the middle-income folks probably are moving to Portland, while the poor Mexicans keep flooding California.
this is entirely accurate. the latin americans are however also flooding into Oregon, Washington & BC
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  #827  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 2:08 AM
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
Why wouldn't they be?
Because in my opinion, the focus of the high speed rail should not be to link various suburbs. I think that the aim should be to link the major metro areas with the shortest possible travel times. Stopping at Sylmar just seems pointless. Linking the big cities and major regional centers is enough for me.
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  #828  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 4:45 AM
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Don't worry, it's not like every train will stop at all stations. It would be like the Bay Area's Caltrain, which has local service and "Baby Bullet" expresses that only stop at about 1/4 of the stations. Except these would be real Bullets.
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  #829  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
Are you talking about the Desert Xpress rail to Las Vegas and that other high-speed rail to Phoenix?
I focused more on the northern lines past Sacramento, but they all look fine to me.
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  #830  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 4:57 PM
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Bullet train coming to California ballots

Governor Schwarzenegger is supportive, but a $16 billion state deficit may inspire voters to say 'no' in November.

By Daniel B. Wood | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
from the April 9, 2008 edition


Los Angeles - Like thousands of other college students in California, Jessica Jardine treks regularly from her home in Los Gatos in the north to university life in Los Angeles, in southern California. It's a five- to six-hour drive one way nearly every six weeks or a Southwest Airlines commute – which takes only an hour in the sky, but requires plenty of time getting to and from the airports.

In November, Ms. Jardine will be able to vote on a 220-m.p.h. bullet train, which would zip serenely from San Francisco to Los Angeles in 2.5 hours.

"I would love to take a train, relax, use the time reading, talking on the phone, doing homework," says the University of Southern California graduate student.

If Californians approve the $10 billion bond proposal – enough to provide initial financing for the $42 billion system that could link north and south through the agricultural Central Valley –they will likely see the zooming trains in about a decade.

The price tag may sound ominous in shaky financial times. But the project could turn out to be half the cost of alternatives, proponents say. They calculate that the additional 13.5 million people expected to reside in California within 20 years will result in 90 million to 115 million more intercity or region-to-region trips. Supporting the travelers would require at least $82 billion in upgrades, including 2,970 additional miles of freeway lanes, 90 new airport gates, and five new runways.

"The only money ever spent by Californians [on this project] will be $10 billion, and we think that will make it highly attractive to voters even in these tough financial times," says Rod Diridon, executive director of the Mineta Transportation Institute in San Jose, Calif.

The Third Ballot Attempt

Previous statewide votes on the train were readied, then taken off ballots in 2004 and 2006. In 2004, the reason was a large state deficit that required a bailout bond measure, and in 2006, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger placed one of the state's largest infrastructure bond measures before voters. He and other state legislators did not want any romantic notions of speeding bullet trains competing for voters' attention.

This year, the state has a budget deficit of $16 billion, which could dampen enthusiasm for the train, but the California High-Speed Rail Authority, the proposal sponsor, has secured promises of federal matching funds and funding from public/private partnerships, and a 30-40 percent profit margin.

Though critics say the plan simply mimics the great high-speed trains of Europe, Japan, and China – but without the proven need or demand – proponents say changing life and work styles require the state to embrace new transportation options.

"The whole definition of 'commuter' is changing," says Mehdi Morshed, executive director of the California High-Speed Rail Authority. "The old model is people going to factory jobs from 8 to 5 … now people are driving 150 miles from one place to another two to three times a week for work, recreation, travel, once-a-week meetings – this generation is changing, and so will the next."

Critics say the funding and profit-margin projections are smoke and mirrors, put out by politically sophisticated backers.

"To believe this makes economic sense, you'd have to be foolish," says James Moore, director of the transportation and engineering program at USC. In Europe, he says, the cost of gasoline is higher, so trains make more economic sense for longer trips. "In the US, autos cover shorter trips better and airlines capture longer trips – that doesn't leave room for high-speed rail to compete. The economic plan crumbles at the touch."

Economic, environmental impacts

But Governor Schwarzenegger is pushing the idea for several reasons, including creation of jobs, the lowering of greenhouse-gas emissions per passenger mile, and taking cars off the road.

And he says the revised economic model will appeal to voters.

"This is really going to happen this time," says Sabrina Lockhart, a Schwarzenegger spokeswoman.

Yearly grosses from the rail's starter line – from San Francisco, to San Jose, to Merced, Fresno, Bakersfield, and Anaheim- would be $3 billion according to the authority, producing $1.2 billion in payback profit to bond and private investors. The train would also go up to Sacramento and down to San Diego via Riverside.
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  #831  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 9:35 PM
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What dunce wrote that article? Someone in Los Gatos would use the station in SJ to travel south, not SF. I guess they were trying to make the story more human whilst selling the facts, but they didn't mesh well.
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  #832  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 3:08 PM
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What dunce wrote that article? Someone in Los Gatos would use the station in SJ to travel south, not SF. I guess they were trying to make the story more human whilst selling the facts, but they didn't mesh well.
Apparantly, Daniel Wood wrote it.
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  #833  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 5:42 PM
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Apparantly, Daniel Wood wrote it.
You're quite the detective.
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  #834  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2008, 6:16 PM
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Friday, April 11, 2008
High-speed rail plan gathering steam
San Francisco Business Times - by Eric Young

The allure of a high-speed train shuttling riders between the Bay Area and southern California in 2½ hours is drawing interest from a broad spectrum of potential investors, designers and operators.

The California High-Speed Rail Authority said 50 companies have inquired about working on the state's proposed bullet train, assuming voters approve a $10 billion bond in November that will partially fund the project. The rest of the money for the $42 billion undertaking is expected to come from the federal government and private investors.

California authorities said they are encouraged by the interest among private companies. "The participation of the private sector is a paramount requirement," said Mehdi Morshed, director of the California High-Speed Rail Authority. "The state will use its resources, but the state by itself can't do it."

The system is attracting inquiries from big investors like the California Public Employees' Retirement System, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Babcock & Brown Ltd. Engineering giants like URS Corp. and Fluor Corp., among others, are also showing interest.

If voters approve money for the project, private sector companies will need to be assured that the state can deal with environmental, right-of-way and political issues that could derail the expensive venture, said Sasha Page, vice president of finance for Infrastructure Management Group Inc., which is advising the state on the plan.

Meanwhile, some lawmakers are offering legislation that could appeal to voters considering the bond measure. Assemblywoman Fiona Ma of San Francisco has a bill that would not allow bond money to be spent until full funding for the project is lined up.

California's bullet train would travel 800 miles, linking the Bay Area with Los Angeles, San Diego and dozens of other cities. A high-speed rail ticket would cost about $50 and the train could reach speeds of 220 miles per hour. It could take a decade to lay the tracks and begin service.

In the mid-1990s, inspired by similar systems in Japan and Europe, California began exploring ways to launch a high-speed rail line. The system's progress since then has hit many delays. The statewide $10 billion bond measure was originally scheduled for the 2004 general election. It was delayed until 2006 due to budget concerns. The vote was put off a second time in 2006 so it would not be on the same ballot as a $37 billion infrastructure bond.

eyoung@bizjournals.com / (415) 288-4969
Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...ml?t=printable
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  #835  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2008, 4:11 PM
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$50 door-to-door from downtown SF to downtown LA, in 2 1/2 hours, without having to deal with airport check-in, security and getting to and from LAX and SFO. That sounds pretty appealing to me.
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  #836  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2008, 4:51 PM
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$50 door-to-door from downtown SF to downtown LA, in 2 1/2 hours, without having to deal with airport check-in, security and getting to and from LAX and SFO. That sounds pretty appealing to me.
From San Diego to San Francisco... $50 or $100, or whatever, sounds pretty good to me. too.

I'll pay a premium so long as I do not have to go to an airport, go through security, wait around, be disconnected from the world with no cell or internet connectivity, and then wade thrugh lines to get out of an airport and into a taxi.... It's really a no-brainer in my mind.
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  #837  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2008, 6:28 PM
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From San Diego to San Francisco... $50 or $100, or whatever, sounds pretty good to me. too.

I'll pay a premium so long as I do not have to go to an airport, go through security, wait around, be disconnected from the world with no cell or internet connectivity, and then wade thrugh lines to get out of an airport and into a taxi.... It's really a no-brainer in my mind.
It still amazes me that some people feel the need to always have the use of a phone, let alone the internet.
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  #838  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2008, 6:36 PM
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It still amazes me that some people feel the need to always have the use of a phone, let alone the internet.
It shouldn't when you consider business travelers.
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  #839  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2008, 7:06 PM
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It shouldn't when you consider business travelers.
Even then, it only takes an hour to fly from LAX to SFO; even if I were traveling on business, I can't imagine stressing that I can't make/take calls for an hour. I would actually welcome it.
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  #840  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2008, 4:24 AM
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It still amazes me that some people feel the need to always have the use of a phone, let alone the internet.
If you were travelling on business and wanted to remain connected in one way or another, it would be important to you too. Or, if wanting to remain connected to family.

...Oooops. looks like I repeated someone elses point oo. Maybe we're on to something? Ya think?
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