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  #1  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2007, 4:12 AM
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Sonics unveil arena funding plan

Thursday, February 8, 2007
Sonics unveil arena funding plan
By Ralph Thomas and Ashley Bach
Seattle Times reporters

OLYMPIA — After weeks of waiting, state lawmakers today finally got to see the details of a $300 million tax package that the Sonics are proposing for a new arena in King County.

The legislation, which probably won't be formally introduced until Monday, is similar to what the team's previous owners failed to sell to the Legislature the past two years. It would allow King County to extend several existing taxes that are currently being used to pay off the debt on Safeco Field, Qwest Field and the Kingdome, which was demolished in 2000.

"These are the same taxes we've been paying all along," said Sen. Margarita Prentice, D-Renton, the Sonics' biggest supporter in Olympia.

So far, however, support in the Legislature is spotty at best.

"I know there are some senators interested," said Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown, D-Spokane, "but I just don't know how that translates yet into broader support."

Aside from paying for a new arena for the Sonics and Storm basketball teams, the tax package proposed in Senate Bill 5986 would raise an additional $123 million that King County could use for other purposes. The bill says the top-priority use for the money is arts and cultural activities, followed by maintenance on existing sports facilities.

Sonics lobbyists worked the halls today, rounding up sponsors for the draft legislation. By the end of the day, five senators had signed onto the bill. The team plans to start looking for sponsors in the House next week.

Prentice, who chairs the powerful Senate Ways and Means Committee, will hold a hearing on the bill on Tuesday.

She said she assumed Sonics owner Clay Bennett would be ready to announce an arena site by then, but team officials weren't making any promises.

"I can't predict that," said team spokesman Jim Kneeland. "We're working as quickly as we can to get the site."

The team is deciding between sites in Bellevue and Renton. Kneeland said the team had hoped to have that finalized before formally proposing the tax package.

"It just didn't make sense to wait any longer, we had to get it moving," he said.

Sonics consultants met with Bellevue city officials today and asked what the city was prepared to offer for a new arena. City officials did not have an answer because they said they still needed more information, such as how much money the building would make, said City Manager Steve Sarkozy.

"We're still in the information gathering mode," Sarkozy said. "We're trying to understand their business plan, their revenue structure and where they see gaps in their financing."

Renton city officials have not met with the team in person but have spoken on the phone, said Alex Pietsch, city economic development director. The team has not directly asked city officials what they would offer, though both parties have discussed parking and other improvements at an arena site.

Pietsch said team officials assured him they don't need any more information from the city to make their decision. "I feel like we've done what we can."

If the team chooses Renton, "we'll really be able to dive in and really understand what the economics are," he said.

The new arena — a multi-purpose facility that could accommodate other professional sports, such as hockey — is expected to cost more than $500 million. The team and other private-sector sources will pick up the portion not covered by taxpayers.
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  #2  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2007, 6:17 AM
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I hope something evolves clearing all this b.s... would rather see it in d/t rather than the burbs... but anything will work at this point I guess.... I hate that stadiums are leaving city cores and heading outward... hats off to the cities that keep them centralized.... The Sonics franchise has been a disaster/mockery the way it has been ran/handled lately... ashamed just to think little bit more than 10 years ago they were in the NBA finals.. What a slap in the face to a metropolitan area that well populated to loose them, and does not fair well for the NW in general with the Grizz departing Vancouver, Portland's shakes as of recent years... Sure something will work out, it had better because just the thought of the Oklahoma Sonics... drives me insane...

Downtown Freddy Brown....
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  #3  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 2:07 AM
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what's wrong with key arena? do the sonics want a larger capacity venue or is it a situation with the new owners who are demanding it?
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  #4  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 2:13 AM
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The Sonics/Owners want a larger venue to be competitive in revenue.
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  #5  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 3:15 AM
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That thing just got a complete and thorough renovation in what, '96? '97?
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  #6  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 3:33 AM
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They need lots of help because their just a poor bunch of Joes in it for the love of the game, not the filthy rich fuckers who could easily build it with their own money.
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  #7  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 6:25 AM
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Originally Posted by WonderlandPark View Post
That thing just got a complete and thorough renovation in what, '96? '97?
'95. I think.
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  #8  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 8:33 AM
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thats still new^ and still not payed off if i recall. i was driving down I 405 today and I could picture it in renton down there by boeing and the landing on the water...we'll see what monday and tuesday's announcments will mean for the sonics and the region.
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  #9  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 4:55 PM
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They need lots of help because their just a poor bunch of Joes in it for the love of the game, not the filthy rich fuckers who could easily build it with their own money.
^
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  #10  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 5:02 PM
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What ever they did in 95-96 for remodeling was just the basics. The city did not want to over haul the Key. BUt that was there big mistake. The team has not been able to make any money do to loss sale in the club seats and private suites. Its time for a world class arena like quest field and safeco field.
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  #11  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 5:28 PM
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What ever they did in 95-96 for remodeling was just the basics. The city did not want to over haul the Key. BUt that was there big mistake. The team has not been able to make any money do to loss sale in the club seats and private suites. Its time for a world class arena like quest field and safeco field.
Except for the 4 main support beams of the roof - I think Key Arena got an entirely new roof structure and skin. The floor of the arena was dug out to increase seating capacity. A corresponding excavation took place outside the arena towards the International fountain to access the lowered floor. I believe HVAC and electrical got major upgrades - probably more like completely replaced. I could be wrong but I think this was a lot more than just the basics.
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  #12  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 10:38 PM
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It is the third smallest arena in the NBA though and yet we are the 13th largest Market in the league.

That and the lease sucks for the team.

I'm in favor of Renton. The project would integrate into the rapidly revitalizing downtown with The Landing, the Transit Center and the rennovations along antique row. If Renton adds this and has at the opposite end of Jean Coulon the Seahawks training facilities the city will be linked with the Eastside for reputation as opposed to its "southend" reputation.
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  #13  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2007, 8:07 AM
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  #14  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2007, 9:58 AM
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yeah, went by there again today, love the area for it. Renton highlands is booming...and the downtown has done a complete 180. There still needs lots of work to be done...revitalization wise...
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  #15  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 7:03 AM
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And the winner is . . .

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/..._sonics14.html

Sonics: Renton, here we come
But first, team wants $400 million from taxpayers


By CHRIS McGANN AND CRAIG HARRIS
P-I REPORTERS

OLYMPIA -- The Seattle Sonics want the public to pay for most of a new $500 million multipurpose arena in Renton, they want most of the proceeds from that facility and they want the money without a public vote, owner Clay Bennett told lawmakers Tuesday.

The NBA team will face a fight on every front.

Aside from support from Renton and King County, Bennett is dealing with taxpayers who still are paying for four major stadiums and who have grown weary of subsidies for millionaires and sports teams.

And there are many other formidable obstacles:

# It would be nearly impossible to pass the tax package without support from Speaker of the House Frank Chopp, D-Seattle, who has said his caucus isn't interested and that the money should go to education and health care.

# If the Legislature authorizes a tax package that does not include a public vote, opponents say they'll file an initiative to block the deal and King County Council Chairman Larry Phillips has told state leaders he'll block the necessary county tax increases.

# The land Bennett said he wants to build is apparently not for sale.

The Boeing Co. owns the roughly 22 acres that the Sonics want, but a Dallas-based developer, Harvest Partners, has the first right of refusal to buy the property.

And Harvest Partners on Tuesday gave no indication it was willing to sell.

"We are moving forward to build a shopping center on that land. That is our intent and that is the direction we will pursue," said Natalie Quick, a Harvest Partners spokeswoman. "We have no formal agreement nor have we had discussions with anyone. Our plan remains the same."

Bennett told the Senate Ways and Means Committee that he expects the public to provide most of the financing -- $300 million from the state, about $100 million from the city of Renton -- and that most of the money from the facility should go to the team.

Bennett said his time and the $350 million the Oklahoma City ownership group spent buying the Sonics last year is a substantial part of the team's investment. He also said he expects to take responsibility for about $100 million in private investments.

Ways and Means Chairwoman Margarita Prentice, D-Renton, said the public would benefit from new jobs and tax revenue generated by sales at and around the arena.

"With each transaction, you get a new tax," she said.

But Chris Van Dyk, founder of Citizens for More Important Things, blasted the proposal.

"For them to say they are doing a big community service by buying the team is preposterous," he said. "The former Sonics owners bought the team, held it for five years and made $80 million profit."

Van Dyk said the Sonics should pay for their own arena.

"This is a private enterprise, we are not a socialist state, let the private market take care of those problems."

Bennett said the hostility in some quarters to public sports stadium funding surprised him.

"I underestimated that part of the deal," he said, adding he hopes the region will rally to keep professional basketball. Bennett has said he may move the team if the Sonics don't get a new arena.

Asked why he didn't try to build the stadium with private money, Bennett said the "model has changed" because the facility will be much more than a venue for sports. "This will be the most expensive building ever built (for an NBA team)," he said.

King County Executive Ron Sims testified in support of Senate Bill 5986, which would allow the county to extend taxes on things such as restaurants, rental cars and hotels worth $423 million. He said the plan would provide sustained money for the arts and ball fields that is not available today.

Renton Mayor Kathy Keolker said the facility would help create a vibrant community.

"We see the potential of this arena as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity," she said.

But one of Renton's biggest investors said the area's economy could bloom without a new multipurpose stadium and pro basketball.

Harvest Partners is now building on 46 acres of the first phase of the Landing, a proposed 68-acre urban village just off Interstate 405 near the south end of Lake Washington. The land the Sonics want is directly south of phase one, which Quick said is 70 percent leased.

"People continue to see the value of doing business in Renton and we don't see that changing," Quick said. "When we think of that second 22 acres, we are looking at it as viable property for retail."

Peter Conte, a Boeing spokesman, said the company was very excited about possibly having an arena in Renton, but "significant issues" such as security and traffic flow must be worked out because the nearby Boeing plant is the final assembly site for Boeing 737s.

"Boeing needs to make sure its manufacturing operations are not impacted and we continue to meet our obligations to our customers," Conte said.

Larry Warren, Renton's attorney, said the city has not made any financial promises to the Sonics regarding infrastructure or parking amenities.

"There is no deal," Warren said. "We have a pretty strong message we try to follow and that is the revenues brought in by any new endeavor have to cover what we will invest. We would have to do an economic analysis."

Meanwhile, Renton's gain is a loss for Bellevue, which also had been in discussions with the Sonics about having an arena.

"I wish them well," Bellevue Mayor Grant Degginger said. "If they continue to look, I'm sure we will talk to them again."

Back in Renton, Jay Fisher, who owns the Dog and Pony Ale House and Grill, is optimistic about the proposed move.

"This is going to impact us, and it can only be positive. ... Sonics fans are not just in Seattle; they're from all over Washington. I think for many Sonics fans it wouldn't be much harder to make the drive here."

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  #16  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 8:31 AM
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YAY 4 renton! DONt let them become the oklahoma sonics! YUCK!
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  #17  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 8:35 AM
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Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
And the winner is . . .

The Seattle Sonics want the public to pay for most of a new $500 million multipurpose arena in Renton, they want most of the proceeds from that facility and they want the money without a public vote, owner Clay Bennett told lawmakers Tuesday.
...
Wise to avoid a public vote. I'd estimate maybe only %15 of the voting public takes it in the ass. %20 tops. And to reach even that pathetic number it's gonna take a lot of sweet talk and a lot of alcohol, neither of which is part of the proposal.

Stadium gets built anyway.

For those of you keeping track:
Billionaires: 128934710958720398723095820349525
Everyone else: $19.95 + tax*










*128934710958720398723095820349525
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  #18  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 9:05 AM
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What is your proposal Herb? Letting the Sonics leave will also rid the region of those tax revenues they were planning on using for the new Arena.

Unfortunately, only billionaires can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of THEIR own money to purchase a team. So, if the community insists that the billionaire now must keep the team in Seattle how is it that the owner is getting a return on their investment if they are the only ones that assume risk?

We will probably see the malcontent Mr Van Dyk who was against Qwest Field become more vocal in the coming days. He was outspoken against the Seahawks saying that the team should just leave town and that there are "more important" social issues. The decision to build Qwest and Safeco fields turned out a success with the revenues generated in the county allowing for an early retirement of the bonds. The proposal is to extend those bonds ALREADY in place. How is this so unreasonable?

As far as spending on items that are "more important" such as social services. Which proposal generates tax revenue to FUND social services? Will tax revenues to fund those "more important" things increase or drop with the proposal should be the question. The sonic proposal is revenue neutral meaning that there will be neither a gain nor loss, but remember the community as a whole benefits when cultural and sports activities flourish.

Sounds unfair? How often do you buy merchandise at the store and just give the newly purchased item away? Essentially that is what some believe should happen. True, the Sonic ownership is wealthy but even their resources are finite. Shouldn't they have they ability to do whatever they want with the Sonics, even move the team?

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Old Posted Feb 14, 2007, 2:09 PM
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What is your proposal Herb? Letting the Sonics leave will also rid the region of those tax revenues they were planning on using for the new Arena.
Exactly. No Sonics whining about a new arena. No new arena. Seattle already has an arena. All of that money just stays in our pockets.

Quote:
Unfortunately, only billionaires can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of THEIR own money to purchase a team. So, if the community insists that the billionaire now must keep the team in Seattle how is it that the owner is getting a return on their investment if they are the only ones that assume risk?
I was just having fun with the billionaires bit, but really, I think they actually could build their own stadium if they wanted to. They don't want to, I assume, because it's a crappy investment opportunity. So they look for ways to minimize and share the crappy investments while still raking in "most of the proceeds". Good idea, but if they are not willing to make that investment why should the public be asked to. Why should I be asked to. Sucks that their particular business can't "compete" without massive public subsidy but they bought the team, not me. I imagine the price reflected any uncertainty about the teams future.

Some people are insisting that they stay, others couldn't care less. The best way we have for settling things like this is to vote. Let everyone decide for themselves if this is a good investment of their money. Wonder why the billionaires don't feel we should have a say in the matter?

Quote:

We will probably see the malcontent Mr Van Dyk who was against Qwest Field become more vocal in the coming days. He was outspoken against the Seahawks saying that the team should just leave town and that there are "more important" social issues. The decision to build Qwest and Safeco fields turned out a success with the revenues generated in the county allowing for an early retirement of the bonds. The proposal is to extend those bonds ALREADY in place. How is this so unreasonable?
I have no idea how the financing works on these projects. Are you saying that Quest and Safeco fields are paid for already? How about the new roof for the kingdome? And the key arena renovation? If so, that's great news. Why not stop while we're ahead.

Quote:
As far as spending on items that are "more important" such as social services. Which proposal generates tax revenue to FUND social services? Will tax revenues to fund those "more important" things increase or drop with the proposal should be the question. The sonic proposal is revenue neutral meaning that there will be neither a gain nor loss, but remember the community as a whole benefits when cultural and sports activities flourish.

Sounds unfair? How often do you buy merchandise at the store and just give the newly purchased item away? Essentially that is what some believe should happen. True, the Sonic ownership is wealthy but even their resources are finite. Shouldn't they have they ability to do whatever they want with the Sonics, even move the team?

The Sonic ownership already can and will do whatever they want with their team. If the stadium is such a great investment why don't they build it and run it themselves? Because it's not. They pay for 1/5 of it and take "most of the proceeds". Public pays for 4/5 but what it receives is mostly intangible: the knowledge that we have a NBA team, a "world class" stadium, a home team to root for. For basketball fans and sports fans in general these might be tax dollars well spent on institutions they value, but what benefit do the rest of us receive? Intolerable sports related television, news, conversations, fashion, traffic, and architecture? (I KID)
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  #20  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2007, 3:28 AM
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The Stranger's SLOG has a letter from all five D members of the KC Council (a majority of the KC Council) to Senator Prentice saying they would ask folks to vote before turning over the hotel/motel/etc. revenue.

http://www.thestranger.com/blog/2007...to_sonics_nope
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