NEW YORK | 425 Park Ave | 860 FT | 42 FLOORS

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by babybackribs2314

Duhhhhhhhhhhh. No way they were going to lose out on all those air rights.

I don't know, they had previously mentioned that the size of the building wasn't an issue because they are in the Plaza district. But we'll see if they change course if or when they are allowed to.

[Submariner]

Wait, could someone explain to me what this means?

[THE BIG APPLE]

^ Air rights are rights bought from another property to increase the height of your future property. In this case the air rights will be increased in the Midtown East area (all part of a rezoning plan). I personally WON'T be happy with a 1000 FT 425 Park because the three crown emblems will look BAD especially considering how tall they actually are.

[J'orker]

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE

^ Air rights are rights bought from another property to increase the height of your future property. In this case the air rights will be increased in the Midtown East area (all part of a rezoning plan). I personally WON'T be happy with a 1000 FT 425 Park because the three crown emblems will look BAD especially considering how tall they actually are.

Foster does say that the blades will be designed in collaboration with an artist (video, previous page). So there is hope.

I actually like his explanation for their existence.

[J'orker]

Foster talks about his inspiration being Hugh Ferriss, which makes sense;



Dramatic setbacks and lighting, which is the plan.

[ATLksuGUY]

Originally Posted by J'orker

Foster talks about his inspiration being Hugh Ferriss, which makes sense;



Dramatic setbacks and lighting, which is the plan.

God i love that building....

[NYguy]

^ You can see the connection there.

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE

^ Air rights are rights bought from another property to increase the height of your future property.

Somewhat. Every site has so called "air rights". You can purchase more to increase your own.

Originally Posted by Submariner

Wait, could someone explain to me what this means?

This area of Midtown was downzoned after most of the buildings there were built, so if a developer wanted to demolish and build a new tower on site, it would have to be smaller. The Midtown East rezoning plan is all about changing that to allow developers to build a little larger, or a lot larger than what is now allowed.

Put it like this, if you built a 5 story building, the old rezoning now would only allow you to build a 4 story building on that same site. However, you could replace it with a 5 story building if you keep the original first two floors.

But with the new rezoning, not only could you demolish the entire 5 floors, you could replace it with a 6 story building, 2 stories more than the currently allowed 4. But you have to wait 5 years from now to be able to do that.

Scott Stringer wants the City to change that, and allow you to build the full 6 before then.

The $750 million Norman Foster-designed project, called 425 Park Avenue, was up until now going to use a loophole that would allow it to rebuild the structure to its current square footage, so long as they keep 25 percent of the build square footage intact (normally it wouldn’t be allowed, as it’s overbuilt according to the current zoning).

But Mr. Stringer wants smaller buildings (code for 425 Park) to be able to rise before the 2017 sunrise provision is set to kicks in, in exchange for paying into the DIB fund, which is something that L&L wouldn’t have to do if it used the rebuilding loophole. If Mr. Stringer’s Midtown East proposals are enacted, L&L also wouldn’t have to leave 25 percent of the building intact, giving it more flexibility when it comes to floor plates and ceiling heights on the lower floors.

[NYguy]

So now it seems they do want in on the rezoning...


http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2013/0...ng_hearing.php

...Speaking for the pro camp was deputy mayor Robert Steel, CBRE CEO, former REBNY chair and general commercial broker powerhouse Mary Ann Tighe, the Regional Plan Association chair, several MTA officials, the developer of Norman Foster-designed 425 Park Avenue (who wants in on the new zoning),

[hunser]

Iirc they said this building will become a new landmark. Well I'll tell you this: the design may be great, but with the proposed height this will be totally lost amongst the 1000 footers surrounding it.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by hunser

but with the proposed height this will be totally lost amongst the 1000 footers surrounding it.

There are many landmark skyscrapers and buildings in Manhattan. Most of them are not 1,000 ft.

[JayPro]

There's also the fact that until 1987, Philadelphia wasn't allowed to build taller than the top of Ben Franklin's hat by "gentlemen's agreement"...whatever the smeg that means.

Then you have the oft-argued proposition that the Washington Monument--clearly the most conspicuous structure in town--can't be exceeded because of the city's location on swampland. The gist of this debate is whether one sees this as a geologic reality or a thinly-velied pejorative reference (NB: not mine) to the daily doings--or non-doings--of the U.S. Congress.

Now, while there are indeed laws in place that place limits on a DC biulding's *width*; the close proximity of three nearby airports clearly explain why DC doesn't have a true skyline. Indeed, that's why so many satellite communities in Virginia and Maryland have rather decent mid-rise skylines for their sizes. Obviously, the further away from the airport, the lesser the FAA's dictum on how high what gets built gets to be.

Otherwise, WM would've had quite a few neighbors to share sky and sunlight with by now.

(Aside: Now that I think about it, it strikes me how similar this DC & skyscrapers debate is to the one over why Manhattan has two skylines: Geology vs. practicality/logistics &c.)


To this thread: 425P, thankfully, doesn't touch any of the subjects I brought up with a 99&1/2' pole. It simply redounds to location; the height serves to punctuate that equally simple reality.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JayPro

There's also the fact that until 1987, Philadelphia wasn't allowed to build taller than the top of Ben Franklin's hat by "gentlemen's agreement"...whatever the smeg that means.

Then you have the oft-argued proposition that the Washington Monument--clearly the most conspicuous structure in town--can't be exceeded because of the city's location on swampland.

It brings to mind a few years back when the Malkins didn't want anything taller than the Empire State built in Midtown (15 Penn). But in New York, landmark buidlings come in all forms and sizes(old and new), and some are actual landmarks. A few that come to mind are the Hearst (another Foster building), the Flatiron, the UN, obviously other Park Ave greats like the Lever House and Seagram, etc. Then you have the fact that this will be the first office building built on Park Ave in decades, it will be a "groundbreaking" building in that sense, the new "it" thing. But Foster intends to go beyond just that.

[UCityGardener]

Originally Posted by JayPro

There's also the fact that until 1987, Philadelphia wasn't allowed to build taller than the top of Ben Franklin's hat by "gentlemen's agreement"....[/B]

It was actually William Penn's hat. A statue of him - the city's founder - sits atop city hall in Philly. But you're right otherwise. Philly had a squat skyline until 1 liberty place broke that limit in 1987.

[hunser]

905 feet!

DOB: http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01

Building Height (ft.): 905
Building Stories: 42

And with the fins, this one could be a supertall.

[baseball1992]

Originally Posted by hunser

905 feet!

DOB: http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01



And with the fins, this one could be a supertall.

Is it definitely to highest occupied floor and not to the top of the fin? 42 Floors for 900 feet is pretty crazy.

[scalziand]

I would like to point out that the transfer levels between the blocks of office space are pretty large, in addition to a bunch of double height floors in the first tier, which will undoubtedly add significantly to the height.



In this render we see that the first 5 floors are equivalent to 13 in the neighboring building.

[JayPro]

I estimated via the official NYC diagram that with this updated height, plus an estimated 150' for the fins, we're talking Tower Verre tall...plus 5.
And taller than One57 by 50'.
What a wonderful landmark tower this will be.
The good news for NYC highrise-o-philes just keeps on coming..........

[mrnyc]

its certainly thoughtful and a good fit. looks good in that render.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by hunser

905 feet!

DOB: http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01

And with the fins, this one could be a supertall.

Originally Posted by scalziand

I would like to point out that the transfer levels between the blocks of office space are pretty large, in addition to a bunch of double height floors in the first tier, which will undoubtedly add significantly to the height.

Keep in mind that the renderings we have seen are of the "concept" from which the final design was to be made. We have yet to see the final design, so we don't really know what has changed. Also keep in mind that there is currently a push to allow developers that are building the "smaller" towers to build sooner than the sunrise provision would allow in the midtown east rezoning, meaning they wouldn't have to wait until 2018 to build a larger version. I doubt that is currently reflected in the application, but all in all I would say there's a chance the building is in fact closer to being a supertall. Now, the design is what we need to see.

[NYguy]

OK, I've looked back at the application. Current zoning on site is for a 15 FAR, original zoning was for 18, which the current tower now is. The FAR on the application is also at 18, which means this is a proposal for a tower if they keep the lower floors which will allow the 18 FAR. However, with the midtown east rezoning, the FAR will jump up to a 24 FAR. There's about a year and a half before they can begin demolition on site, so there's much time for things to change. Looking forward to seeing how much has changed in the design already.



http://archinect.com/firms/release/4...attan/58542132

Mr. Levinson added, “We are looking forward to beginning a process in which we translate Foster’s brilliant concept into a modern tower...

Clearly expressing the geometry of its structure, Foster + Partners’ conceptual design features a tapered steel-frame tower rising to meet three illuminated shear walls, adding to the vibrant New York City skyline.

The conceptual design will serve as the framework for a two-year collaborative process with L&L Holding’s project team to create a fully formed architectural and construction plan for the 425 Park Avenue tower. L&L Holding anticipates the start of construction in 2015 with the new 425 Park Avenue tower to be completed by the end of 2017.

http://blog.archpaper.com/wordpress/archives/48329