[Moncton] Retail Thread

[FarmerTom]

I brought up about the old Costco being turned into a recreational place a while back and got shot down and said it was a bad idea. But I think there’s lots of potential there for that.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by FarmerTom

I brought up about the old Costco being turned into a recreational place a while back and got shot down and said it was a bad idea. But I think there’s lots of potential there for that.

I believe the price was north of 9 million, I am no project/real estate manager, however, that seems to be a large outlay prior to starting a residential or recreational project.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by FarmerTom

I brought up about the old Costco being turned into a recreational place a while back and got shot down and said it was a bad idea. But I think there’s lots of potential there for that.

I don’t recall you making this suggestion, but you are obviously a man of vision.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Here is the real estate listing for the former Costco building at Wheeler Park:

http://www.barwiserealty.com/25Trini...OkjaowhYWYGHgo



The listing states the land totals 9.9 acres and the asking price is 9.5 million dollars.



This will be a tough sell. There is virtually no retailer in the country not already in the Moncton marketplace that would consider taking this (large) building as is. About the only candidate would be Lowe's, but they are already in contraction mode in the country, and have closed a number of their Rona outlets in Atlantic Canada (including in metro Halifax). Lowe's has tended to shy away from Atlantic Canada because of the entrenched position of Kent, and also because Home Depot is already here.

I know some people talk about IKEA as a replacement, but Moncton is about 4x too small for a full fledged IKEA, and Halifax is already the smallest city in the country with an IKEA. I imagine IKEA considers their Halifax store as the regional store for their chain.

I have mentioned in the past the possibility of a relocated Cineplex in this location, incorporating an IMAX and a Rec Room. A building such as this, incorporated in a larger plaza, and perhaps a restaurant on a freestanding pad would be large enough to occupy this space. Speculation was fuelled by the fact that the CEO of IMAX is on record as stating that he would like to have an IMAX in Moncton. Rec Room has already moved into St. John's, next to their Cineplex in Avalon Mall, and they are building a smaller Playdium at Dartmouth Crossing in Halifax, close to their Cineplex there. Wheeler Park in Moncton therefore would have seemed their next logical move.

Unfortunately Cineworld LLC from the UK has just purchased Cineplex, and intends to operate Cineplex as a subsidiary of their Regal Cinema brand in the USA. In fact, the Cineplex head office in Toronto will be largely shelled out, and the chain will be mostly run out of Nashville(!) Neither Cineworld or Regal has any experience (or likely interest) in running entertainment complexes such as Rec Room or Playdium. I would not at all be surprised if Cineworld doesn't put up the Rec Room business for sale. I think the (very real) possibility of a Cineplex move to the Costco site is now dead in the water.

So, what does that leave? I suppose somebody (like Choice Properties, the actual owners of Wheeler Park except for Costco, Kent & Superstore) could purchase the land for new retail and build a large plaza here with a couple of restaurant pads, but it would be a challenge finding enough retailers to fill all this space, especially given the ongoing retail apocalypse. As such, it may be necessary to think outside the box.

One possibility could be to replace the Costco (and the Kent) buildings with high density residential. A few apartment towers here for example would provide an immediate customer base to the remaining retailers in Wheeler Park, and might entice a few new restaurants or service providers to move into this space as well. Mixed use developments are the new "in" thing in terms of large scale construction projects in North America.

Here's another thought that I was just ruminating on. How about a large scale recreational complex? I know Riverview is thinking about a field house for off Bridgedale Blvd, but judging from the rendering I posted on the Riverview thread, I am uncertain if this is a full sized field house or not. Both Saint John and Halifax have field houses. Maybe it's time for Moncton to have it's own (full sized) field house as well. A field house, combined with multipurpose space, perhaps a pool and a 2-4 plex rink would fill this space nicely and would provide a lot of traffic to help support the remaining retailers in Wheeler Park. The location is central and is prominent. This is an idea that should be carefully considered.

Thoughts anyone????

I think residential is the way they should go. You could remove the buildings and create a road that went behind The Brick and curved down the hill ending at Frampton Lane. Have 5-7 storey apartment buildings similar to the one being built at Plaza and Mountain.

[DyAm00394]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Here is the real estate listing for the former Costco building at Wheeler Park:

http://www.barwiserealty.com/25Trini...OkjaowhYWYGHgo



The listing states the land totals 9.9 acres and the asking price is 9.5 million dollars.



This will be a tough sell. There is virtually no retailer in the country not already in the Moncton marketplace that would consider taking this (large) building as is. About the only candidate would be Lowe's, but they are already in contraction mode in the country, and have closed a number of their Rona outlets in Atlantic Canada (including in metro Halifax). Lowe's has tended to shy away from Atlantic Canada because of the entrenched position of Kent, and also because Home Depot is already here.

I know some people talk about IKEA as a replacement, but Moncton is about 4x too small for a full fledged IKEA, and Halifax is already the smallest city in the country with an IKEA. I imagine IKEA considers their Halifax store as the regional store for their chain.

I have mentioned in the past the possibility of a relocated Cineplex in this location, incorporating an IMAX and a Rec Room. A building such as this, incorporated in a larger plaza, and perhaps a restaurant on a freestanding pad would be large enough to occupy this space. Speculation was fuelled by the fact that the CEO of IMAX is on record as stating that he would like to have an IMAX in Moncton. Rec Room has already moved into St. John's, next to their Cineplex in Avalon Mall, and they are building a smaller Playdium at Dartmouth Crossing in Halifax, close to their Cineplex there. Wheeler Park in Moncton therefore would have seemed their next logical move.

Unfortunately Cineworld LLC from the UK has just purchased Cineplex, and intends to operate Cineplex as a subsidiary of their Regal Cinema brand in the USA. In fact, the Cineplex head office in Toronto will be largely shelled out, and the chain will be mostly run out of Nashville(!) Neither Cineworld or Regal has any experience (or likely interest) in running entertainment complexes such as Rec Room or Playdium. I would not at all be surprised if Cineworld doesn't put up the Rec Room business for sale. I think the (very real) possibility of a Cineplex move to the Costco site is now dead in the water.

So, what does that leave? I suppose somebody (like Choice Properties, the actual owners of Wheeler Park except for Costco, Kent & Superstore) could purchase the land for new retail and build a large plaza here with a couple of restaurant pads, but it would be a challenge finding enough retailers to fill all this space, especially given the ongoing retail apocalypse. As such, it may be necessary to think outside the box.

One possibility could be to replace the Costco (and the Kent) buildings with high density residential. A few apartment towers here for example would provide an immediate customer base to the remaining retailers in Wheeler Park, and might entice a few new restaurants or service providers to move into this space as well. Mixed use developments are the new "in" thing in terms of large scale construction projects in North America.

Here's another thought that I was just ruminating on. How about a large scale recreational complex? I know Riverview is thinking about a field house for off Bridgedale Blvd, but judging from the rendering I posted on the Riverview thread, I am uncertain if this is a full sized field house or not. Both Saint John and Halifax have field houses. Maybe it's time for Moncton to have it's own (full sized) field house as well. A field house, combined with multipurpose space, perhaps a pool and a 2-4 plex rink would fill this space nicely and would provide a lot of traffic to help support the remaining retailers in Wheeler Park. The location is central and is prominent. This is an idea that should be carefully considered.

Thoughts anyone????

I could see residential apartment buildings with ground floor retail being perfect for this area. I know East Point Shopping Center here in Saint John is planning to do this on the remaining vacant land left in the area.


And a field house is also a good idea too.

The one here in SJ is 127,000sf and it features: two indoor turf fields (each measuring 60 metres by 30 metres), a 200-metre indoor track, a fitness centre and change rooms, a child-care centre, an outdoor playground (coming this year), a 1km nature-walking trails (free for the public), Newcomer Connections service, community centre, large multi-purpose room, and 8 team rooms. And there were plans to possibly add two ice rinks (one being a Olympic sized rink and the other being a NHL sized rink) but I'm not sure if that's still planned.

The Halifax Field house is 52,000sf and features: 3 FIBA sized basketball courts, divided with horizontal, 4 “mini” Basketball Courts, 5 FIVA Sized Volleyball Courts, and 8 Badminton Courts. But the overall facility (Canada Games Centre) is 176,000sf and features: Aquatics Centre, Feild house, Track, Fitness Center, Yoga Studio, Dance Studio, Child minding services, Subway Restaurant, and Lifemark Health Services.

The former Costco there in Moncton is 100,000sf so a field house could work.


Overall, I'm interested to see what will happen with this area of Moncton.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

I could see residential apartment buildings with ground floor retail being perfect for this area. I know East Point Shopping Center here in Saint John is planning to do this on the remaining vacant land left in the area.


And a field house is also a good idea too.

The one here in SJ is 127,000sf and it features: two indoor turf fields, each measuring 60 metres by 30 metres, a 200-metre indoor track, a fitness centre and change rooms, a child-care centre and a Newcomer Connections service. And there were plans to possibly add two ice rinks (one being a Olympic sized rink and the other being a NHL sized rink) but I'm not sure if that's still planned.

The Halifax Field house is 52,000sf and features: 3 FIBA sized basketball courts, divided with horizontal, 4 “mini” Basketball Courts, 5 FIVA Sized Volleyball Courts, and 8 Badminton Courts. But the overall facility (Canada Games Centre) is 176,000sf and features: Aquatics Centre, Feild house, Track, Fitness Center, Yoga Studio, Dance Studio, Child minding services, Subway Restaurant, and Lifemark Health Services.

The former Costco there in Moncton is 100,000sf so a field house could work.


Overall, I'm interested to see what will happen with this area of Moncton.

To me it's clear that 100,000 sq. ft. of new retail space here would not work. It will have to be something different, and a mix of uses sounds like the way to go.

It's too bad a company like the Aquilini Group wouldn't acquire and develop the property. But Aquilini hasn't done anything with the Crowne Plaza block downtown, so I guess they're not overly interested in investing in Moncton at this point. Looking at their website, they're certainly capable of creating spectacular projects. Would love to see them invest in Moncton.

[FarmerTom]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don’t recall you making this suggestion, but you are obviously a man of vision.

Maybe it was on the Facebook group. I follow here and there quite close.

[Ifyoubuildit]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

I think residential is the way they should go. You could remove the buildings and create a road that went behind The Brick and curved down the hill ending at Frampton Lane. Have 5-7 storey apartment buildings similar to the one being built at Plaza and Mountain.

Residential would be a good idea, but I don’t think a developer could pay 10mil or more, pay to demolish the buildings and have a financial business case, at Atlantic Canada apartment rental rates.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Ifyoubuildit

Residential would be a good idea, but I don’t think a developer could pay 10mil or more, pay to demolish the buildings and have a financial business case, at Atlantic Canada apartment rental rates.

Yes, the $9.5M cost for the land would be a big disincentive for residential development. The only way around it would be high density residential, in order to decrease the per unit costs for the land purchase.

Here's an idea - how about a large Shannex seniors assisted living facility!

Shannex was going to build such a facility on LJR Blvd, before the potential for a Costco relocation to the Day & Ross site fell through, nixing the proposed street grid for the west end of the Vision Lands, and a necessary bridge over Hall's Creek. That development was going to be quite large and included a couple of 12 storey towers if I recall.

What if the Shannex development were revived and relocated to the Costco (and Kent) site? There would be oodles of land there to plan a high density development, including parking space and suitable landscaping and planned parkland. The fact it would be located right next to a retail complex including a Superstore and restaurants would be a bonus. I could see this happening..........

[MonctonRad]

Milestone's restaurant is apparently opening 11 AM, next Monday March 9th.

I was by there today and noted that the exterior is now fully complete, and that they were working furiously on the final interior touches.

This is one of my favourite chain restaurants in Canada, and I am really looking forward to their first Maritime location.

If you like Moxie's, you'll really like Milestone's, they appeal to the same demographic.

[MonctonRad]

There was apparently an invitation only event on tonight at the Milestones


photo from Retail Talk & Share

The interior looks interesting through the windows. As I have said before, this is one of my favourite restaurant chains in the country, and I am very much looking forward to trying this out.

[David_99]

I know there were concerns about its size, but looking at the person in front of the building in that image, really puts it in better perspective.

[MonctonRad]

Indeed, perspective is everything.

Milestones still isn't as large as Montana's or St Hubert, which occupy pads in the same plaza, but it appears that it is still plenty big enough.

[InterestedObserver]

Hello from the Freddy thread. I'm interested in any news on 5 Guys Burgers and Fries. Any word since the initial press release Moncton was on their horizon? I see Halifax has TWO locations now.

[MonctonRad]

No new word on Five Guys in Moncton, sorry.

If you like Five Guys burgers however, I recommend you try out Big League Burgers on Mountain Road. They are a virtual clone of Five Guys, right down to the quality and style of the food, and the architectural styling of the business.

[MonctonRad]

This was posted on the [Saint John] Retail thread:



This would be a novel franchise for the area. Pierogi's are good food too. Of course, just because they are looking for a franchisee doesn't necessarily mean that a new restaurant is anywhere close to opening. The big problem will be finding somebody willing to take a chance on a hefty initial investment on an unproven concept in a new market. We'll have to keep an eye on this one.

[MonctonRad]

Well, I went to Costco today, and I would say the COVID-19 panic is here, despite the fact that the nearest confirmed case is about 1000 km away.......

Observations:

1) - there was a line-up of customers in the building entrance waiting for carts to be returned to the storage area.
2) - employees were on hand to wipe down the cart handles with sanitizers for the waiting customers.
3) - at least when I was there, there was a Costco employee over by the paper supplies section telling people that the toilet paper was all sold out.
4) - NO food samples were being given out!!!

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, I went to Costco today, and I would say the COVID-19 panic is here, despite the fact that the nearest confirmed case is about 1000 km away.......

Observations:

1) - there was a line-up of customers in the building entrance waiting for carts to be returned to the storage area.
2) - employees were on hand to wipe down the cart handles with sanitizers for the waiting customers.
3) - at least when I was there, there was a Costco employee over by the paper supplies section telling people that the toilet paper was all sold out.
4) - NO food samples were being given out!!!

Even if there are no confirmed cases locally, if this entices people to practice good hygiene and preventive measures to the spread of any viral infection, that's a really good thing! Unfortunately, I'm sure this good behavior will all be forgotten when COVID-19 eventually drops out of the news cycle.

[FarmerTom]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, I went to Costco today, and I would say the COVID-19 panic is here, despite the fact that the nearest confirmed case is about 1000 km away.......

Observations:

1) - there was a line-up of customers in the building entrance waiting for carts to be returned to the storage area.
2) - employees were on hand to wipe down the cart handles with sanitizers for the waiting customers.
3) - at least when I was there, there was a Costco employee over by the paper supplies section telling people that the toilet paper was all sold out.
4) - NO food samples were being given out!!!

They have been wiping the cards for over a week now. They still were doing samples last night.

[jonny golden]

This morning at Starbucks the customer in front of me wasn't allowed to use the plastic cup she had brought in. The server said they weren't allowed to touch cups customers brought into the store because of the corona virus!