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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack
But still, do you know what the percentage of unilingual anglos in Quebec City is? It's around 15%
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I find this very hard to believe. I've been to QC a half dozen times, and outside the tourism zone in the old walled city, it's pretty rare to ever hear any English spoken. Where are all these anglophones hiding??
They don't exist.

2016 Census, Ville de Quebec

Knowledge of Official Languages, English Only: 0.26%
First Official Language Spoken, English: 1.68%
Mother Tongue, English: 1.41%
Language Spoken at home, English: 1.07%
Knowledge of Language, English: 40.67%

More people know neither English nor French than there are unilingual Anglophones in Quebec City. I've no clue where this 15% number is coming from.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...TABID=1&type=0
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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 6:52 PM
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[saving the map thread from its derailment. post here calisse]
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:02 PM
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Quebec City city proper.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...TABID=1&type=0

1350 people speak only English out of 8810 mother tongue anglophones = 15.32% unilingual anglophones.

Valcartier is outside Quebec City proper so any unilingual ROCers living there wouldn't be counted in these numbers.
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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Don't you have a non-Québécois (see, I can insert the accents when I cut and paste) ethnic side? Which makes you only half-Québécois, using your definition?
Oh, of course. I'm most definitely only 50% "Québécois de souche" (and have always known and admitted that). That's cold hard fact and no amount of wishful thinking on my part will ever change that.

Now, do I think less of myself because of that? No. Do I feel unwelcome in the province? No.

I'm Québécois though. Just not full "de souche".

Just like if I moved to Poland and permanently settled there and married a Polish girl and became fluent in the language, I'd be "Polish" at that point, but I would never ever be an "old stock ethnic Pole" at any point in the rest of my life even if I live to be 120 years old.
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  #45  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Quebec City city proper.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...TABID=1&type=0

1350 people speak only English out of 8810 mother tongue anglophones = 15.32% unilingual anglophones.
Oh, your original post made it seem like 15% of VdQuebec's total population only spoke English.

What you're talking about is 15% of 1.70% of VdQuebec's total population, so I hardly think it's much of a talking point. It's almost, quite literally, unicorn territory.
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  #46  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Oh, your original post made it seem like 15% of VdQuebec's total population only spoke English.

What you're talking about is 15% of 1.70% of VdQuebec's total population, so I hardly think it's much of a talking point. It's almost, quite literally, unicorn territory.
And I'm willing to bet the average age of this 15% of 1.7% anglophone population of QC who can't speak French is about 85 years old.

This minuscule community will disappear in the next 10-15 years, then the problem will have been solved. The Final Solution will have occurred.
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  #47  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:13 PM
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But the real question: do they "feel" Québécois? Do their neighbours think they're "Québécois"?
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
How is that any different from an anglo living in, say, Drummondville? Even if the anglo watches the CBC News at night instead of TVA, there is probably going to be some baseline level of integration with the community where they work, shop, maybe belong to a community organization or two, etc. I guess it's possible that someone could use technology to live remotely in English Canada and seal themselves off totally from their immediate surroundings, but it strikes me as a bit unlikely.

There are people in Manitoba who live their lives mostly in Punjabi, German, Russian, Chinese, Cree and even French, but they are still considered Manitoban.
kool maudit nailed that - "Manitoban" isn't an actual ethnocultural identity. It's just whoever lives in that particular jurisdiction.

A South Asian guy who speaks only Punjabi and not a single word of Russian and who lives and works in Moscow (obviously for a South Asian boss there) isn't "a Russian", but rather, "a guy who lives in Russia at the moment".

(Don't you guys get that difference instinctively? Isn't it... just obvious? Sincere question.)
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  #49  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
And I'm willing to bet the average age of this 15% of 1.7% anglophone population of QC who can't speak French is about 85 years old.

This minuscule community will disappear in the next 10-15 years, then the problem will have been solved. The Final Solution will have occurred.
Lol. Can't we agree to reserve the term "Final Solution" for when we'll start to systematically throw Anglos into gas chambers and crematory ovens? Thanks.
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  #50  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
kool maudit nailed that - "Manitoban" isn't an actual ethnocultural identity. It's just whoever lives in that particular jurisdiction.
Without insulting anyone, it's really an "administrative status" as opposed to an ethnocultural identity.

The ethnocultural identity of the vast majority of Manitobans is "(Anglo-)CanadiAn".

Though yes there are specific groups within Manitoba that have a distinctive province-specific ethnocultural identity. The Métis of Manitoba are a classic example, but there are some others as well.
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post

A South Asian guy who speaks only Punjabi and not a single word of Russian and who lives and works in Moscow (obviously for a South Asian boss there) isn't "a Russian", but rather, "a guy who lives in Russia at the moment".

(Don't you guys get that difference instinctively? Isn't it... just obvious? Sincere question.)
In Canada, such considerations are never simple sociological assessments as they are in most places. There is always a political calculation behind the admission that such things are true, or the denial of them.

Similarly, did you know that in Belgium (in Brussels especially) the government no longer takes census data on language, in order to keep the lid on tensions over which group is dominant in the city?

So journalists have resorted to making access to information requests for data on such things such as the percentage of tax returns filed in either language, in order to make determinations on the demographics of the city.

France, as some people are aware, doesn't take census data on race or ethnic origin. And hasn't for decades.
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:30 PM
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I don't think this 15% number matters much when it's such a tiny number of people. For all we know half of those could be people who were only in the city on a somewhat temporary basis while the census was conducted, e.g. some business person who is living there for 3 months while doing a job who intends to go back to Ontario after.

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with ethnic identities. They can be purely descriptive with no sense of judgement even if some people are in some groups and not others.

Most of the time we talk about them and they have no particular positive or negative connotation. For example some people say they are Italian (people living in NJ who have never been to Italy). If you had no Italian background whatsoever, moved to Italy and then 1 month later flew to Toronto, would you say "I'm Italian" to people in Toronto who ask? Is it because of some huge morally charged problem one way or the other? Probably not. It just wouldn't be an apt description and would confuse the other person.

One thing I noticed long ago in BC is people are more likely to have a notion of what their "background" is even if they were born and raised here and barely participate in the other culture(s). It's somewhat less common in NS, where more people have a complicated ancestry within the region, although I wonder if it's becoming more common now that there's so much more immigrant and more people seem to be moving there from elsewhere (previously "away" ).

I'm 50% "Québécois de souche" ancestry-wise but it would be weird for me to identify myself as Québécois or "half" Québécois. I think it's just one of those strange terms that's currently a mix of background, culture, and place of residence. Also note that Acadian is not "from the Maritimes + Francophone ancestry", it's a specific group tracing roots back to specific settlers. It's not a particularly high status grouping based around excluding people, it was a way to describe the historical cultural group.
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  #53  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
They don't exist.

2016 Census, Ville de Quebec

Knowledge of Official Languages, English Only: 0.26%
First Official Language Spoken, English: 1.68%
Mother Tongue, English: 1.41%
Language Spoken at home, English: 1.07%
Knowledge of Language, English: 40.67%

More people know neither English nor French than there are unilingual Anglophones in Quebec City. I've no clue where this 15% number is coming from.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...TABID=1&type=0
I know it's been cleared up since but I found the bolded part amusing since that 15% is right there in your own post (0.26%/1.68%).
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  #54  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:31 PM
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I Just wanna say...

Thank the mods for finally creating this thread. What took so long? Maybe the rest of us can finally peruse the other threads at our leisure without having to read through page after page of some obtuse take from Anglo-Quebecois-growing-up-in-Franco-Ontario point of view. Or whatever.
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  #55  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
otherwise you are "out"

according to those who not only have an advantage in said criteria as bestowed from birth, but are also judge, jury and executioner with respect to ascertaining whether others pass whatever bar they want to set (note that the bar can be very conveniently raised or lowered depending on whether the "de souche" crowd perceives they might gain an advantage by being inclusionary or exclusionary).

Sounds a bit like those famous Anglos (e.g., the apocryphal fat english saleslady at Eaton's) asking Québécois to "Speak White"
She was fat?
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  #56  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:38 PM
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She was fat?
The legend keeps growing. I heard she had a peg leg and an eye patch...
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  #57  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
And I'm willing to bet the average age of this 15% of 1.7% anglophone population of QC who can't speak French is about 85 years old.

This minuscule community will disappear in the next 10-15 years, then the problem will have been solved. The Final Solution will have occurred.
“Problem” seems an odd way to describe it.
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  #58  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
She was fat?
It was actually (more or less) a direct quote.

See here:

https://prabook.com/web/pierre.macdonald/1959301

Yeah, ironic his name was Pierre... MacDonald. He was also Liberal, not PQ.

No doubt he was Québécois, though!
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  #59  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
kool maudit nailed that - "Manitoban" isn't an actual ethnocultural identity. It's just whoever lives in that particular jurisdiction.

A South Asian guy who speaks only Punjabi and not a single word of Russian and who lives and works in Moscow (obviously for a South Asian boss there) isn't "a Russian", but rather, "a guy who lives in Russia at the moment".

(Don't you guys get that difference instinctively? Isn't it... just obvious? Sincere question.)
Of course it's clear. It's just interesting to see how one provincial identity is constructed to emphasize residency and the other to emphasize language and bloodlines.

I would suspect that English Canada had a similar more exclusion-oriented approach at one time... someone not descended from the British Isles or at the very least Western Europe might have been regarded as an "other", in the days before large scale immigration from outside those areas. The idea that you could be someone from Chandigarh and speak Punjabi most of the time but still be Manitoban (or Nova Scotian or whatever) has to be fairly new, like post-PET.
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  #60  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CivicBlues View Post
Thank the mods for finally creating this thread. What took so long?
I was getting annoyed by the derailment.
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