Saskatoon Roads & Infrastructure

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Another consideration to slowing traffic that's worth noting -- noise reduction and the change to the "feel" of streets, especially on our more pedestrian-heavy streets in the downtown and adjacent areas. They're a lot more pleasant to walk on, or spend time on, when the traffic is a little calmer. I'm less concerned about this effect, say, out on 8th Street. Although if the City wants to make corridors like that more attractive for mixed use development with residential over the next 40 years, then we need to be thinking about making those places into more pleasant living environments as well.

I think this aspect cannot be overstated. When I lived near Broadway I would cut through the residential streets depending on when traffic lights changed, slow drivers in front of me, etc. By reducing the speed on most streets while keeping a 50 kph limit on key arterial streets the city can funnel traffic to wider streets more capable of handling the speed.

Cities should be designed for people, whether they choose to walk, bike or drive. Reducing speed limits to 40 kph would likely make more cyclists feel comfortable riding on the street, may make crossing the street as a pedestrian feel less daunting and will absolutely reduce traffic collisions.

[Spocket]

Even though I already drive around 40 on residential streets, I think this is a pointless proposal. Speed limits around school zones are already reduced to a snail's pace and that's fine around schools but the fact of the matter is that until a neighborhood is sufficiently dense in population, this will only serve to make driver's angrier. Of course, the response to that is that, "Well, they should take the bus or bike or walk." Sure...but that's not feasible in a city that currently is built for vehicular traffic. All cities in northern North America are built this way and while it's nice to imagine some sort of pedestrian utopia, it isn't here yet and it's a long way off. You still can't take 500 pounds of lumber on a bus last I checked and biking to work takes a hell of a lot longer when you live in the suburbs. Actually, it becomes completely impractical when taking your bike could take double, triple or possibly even quadruple your trip time. You can't really talk about socially cohesive neighborhoods when you send all of your time biking to and from it.

So my advice is to wait until you have complete communities before even considering reducing speeds to a crawl.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Spocket

So my advice is to wait until you have complete communities before even considering reducing speeds to a crawl.

Isn't this a little 'chicken before the egg'-ish? Unless driving is less effective, people will almost always choose it (unless you have other priorities such as health, cost, etc.).

One of the reasons people walk or bike in Amsterdam is because the city is built for bikes but also because it isn't built for cars. Sure, you can accomplish this by building narrower roads or fewer freeways, but another option would be reducing speeds.

Honestly, the lower speeds may not matter because everyone (including myself it times) flaunts the speed limit. However I don't think lowering the speed limit on a given local road would impact drivers all that much, while pedestrians and cyclists would notice a big difference.

[phone]

Detailed routing announced for the east portion of the Saskatoon Freeway:

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/phase-2/

I'd note the strange configuration around the highway 16 intersection -- no SB Saskatoon Freeway access from eastbound travellers. But those headed for hwy 11 would still use the current cloverleaf, or Zimmerman if needed. By the way, Zimmerman is going to be a massive artery, essentially hwy 41 headed into Saskatoon. Complex set of ramps around the diverted 41 and Blackley Road.

I know the Saskatoon Freeway is a massive white elephant with questionable at best necessity, but regardless it would affect the city immensely if this is ever built.

[Wyku]

Originally Posted by phone

I'd note the strange configuration around the highway 16 intersection -- no SB Saskatoon Freeway access from eastbound travellers. But those headed for hwy 11 would still use the current cloverleaf, or Zimmerman if needed..

Thanks for posting, always interesting to see what they come up with for these--and always a bit of a . That Hwy 16 area is a mess, yeesh. You can't get onto Hwy 16 from the Freeway if you're traveling North trying to head East either. I HATE when they do stuff like this. Especially when the simplest path (Freeway North to Hwy 16 East) isn't included. Having to take the cloverleaf to go between Hwy 11/16 is almost double the distance it would be if you could just make use of the Freeway, which I assume is what large trucks would have to do rather than using a Zimmerman Rd shortcut.

[FarmerHaight]

Not Saskatoon, but a good lesson about the perils of doing something on the cheap.

On Sept. 14, 2018, the Rural Municipality (RM) of Clayton announced on its Facebook page that "the Dyck Memorial Bridge is now complete and open."

Later that same day, the bridge collapsed. No one was injured.

Earlier that year, the RM had turned down $750,000 in provincial funding for the bridge because it was tied to the province's stringent technical specification for the bridge. RM officials believed those requirements were overkill, and would have made the bridge unnecessarily expensive.

"This bridge is above our needs," said Kelly Rea, then RM administrator, in a public forum. "We do not need this bridge."

The province's more expensive bridge would have cost a total of $1.075 million. As the province said it would cover $750,000 of that, the RM would have been on the hook for $325,000.

In other words, the province's "more expensive bridge" would have cost the RM precisely the same amount as the bridge it ended up approving — which fell down shortly after it was officially opened.

Late last year, the RM put out a tender for a new bridge.

The low-bidder and winner of the competition was Harbuilt Construction. Its bid was $1,923,786.06, taxes included.

[Antigonish]

I moved back to Saskatoon this month and moved into the Clarence/Cumberland/8th area, an area I wasn't previously well versed in, so I do my evening walks everywhere around this part of the city and walking down Melrose or Eastlake is like some barren wasteland of grossly underutilized streetscape. Those two streets in particular must be 4 lanes wide + street parking with no real activity going on. From 8th straight south all the way to Taylor.

Perhaps the city should consider rezoning that whole strip for infill and either creating a treed median (similar to Victoria) or redesign the street with a center median reserved for future BRT (or tram!!!) to accommodate the hypothetical infill.

Very few of the houses in this area seem architecturally important, many look like basic semi-spruced up crack shacks. Seems prime for some urban renewal (the good kind though)

[Crisis]

Just posting abut a Saskatoon road situation that has annoyed/confused me for many years.

Heading north on Idylwyld, the speed limit increases from 50 km/h to 80 km/h as one approaches the underpass beneath Circle Drive. The speed increase happens after the off ramp to Circle Drive


Shortly after passing under Circle Drive, and before the on ramp from Circle merges with Idylwyld, the speed limit increases to 90 km/h.


Why is this? There is no change in road conditions whatsoever between the 80 km/h speed limit location and the 90 km/h speed limit location. The only possible explanation I can think of is that, in case of flooding of the underpass, northbound traffic would enter the flood water 10 km/h slower than if the speed limit immediately increased from 50 km/h to 80 km/h.

Any explanation from someone here? Is there a traffic design convention that you can't increase the speed limit by more than 30 km/h in one step? Help me, I'm confused.

[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

I moved back to Saskatoon this month and moved into the Clarence/Cumberland/8th area, an area I wasn't previously well versed in, so I do my evening walks everywhere around this part of the city and walking down Melrose or Eastlake is like some barren wasteland of grossly underutilized streetscape. Those two streets in particular must be 4 lanes wide + street parking with no real activity going on. From 8th straight south all the way to Taylor.

Perhaps the city should consider rezoning that whole strip for infill and either creating a treed median (similar to Victoria) or redesign the street with a center median reserved for future BRT (or tram!!!) to accommodate the hypothetical infill.

Very few of the houses in this area seem architecturally important, many look like basic semi-spruced up crack shacks. Seems prime for some urban renewal (the good kind though)

Overbuilt streets are such a trademark here. Don't get me started on the downtown core. And yet, at the same time, this is a city that struggles to fill potholes and keep lane markings painted, or to approve urban developments that would put existing infrastructure to better use. Infill in the areas you mention will be a very slow, painful process. Nothing happens here without complaints from people who want Saskatoon to be a small town rather than a city.

[The Bess]

Here's the bylaw which shows the speed limits, you have to search for the ones your looking for, but no real explanation, is this road classified as city transitioning to provincial highway with no interaction between governments? More questions than answers lol

https://pub-saskatoon.escribemeeting...cumentId=65521

[Crisis]

Originally Posted by The Bess

Here's the bylaw which shows the speed limits, you have to search for the ones your looking for, but no real explanation, is this road classified as city transitioning to provincial highway with no interaction between governments? More questions than answers lol

https://pub-saskatoon.escribemeeting...cumentId=65521

Yup, 7 (a) and 8 (c) note the limits and the change point is at Circle Drive, but no explanation in there anywhere. The same situation may exist on the freeway portions of Circle Drive where it bounces between 80 km/h and 90 km/h, but I always assumed there was some logic to which areas of Circle got which speed limit.

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by Roquentin

Overbuilt streets are such a trademark here. Don't get me started on the downtown core. And yet, at the same time, this is a city that struggles to fill potholes and keep lane markings painted, or to approve urban developments that would put existing infrastructure to better use. Infill in the areas you mention will be a very slow, painful process. Nothing happens here without complaints from people who want Saskatoon to be a small town rather than a city.

The best time to rezone it is now, even if it takes 10 years to put a dent in it. What I find frustrating is that planners seem to be by the book on most everything yet they cannot explain to you why things like setbacks were established as-is 40-50 years ago, all they know is that is the rule. Nothing positive ever gets done. Meanwhile we get more and more garbage like Brighton popping up and thousands more cars clogging the roads.

I'm in the process of designing a DDI for Taylor/Circle on CAD or even Open Roads via trial software just to show that it's possible; and if it is, then what's the hold up?

[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

The best time to rezone it is now, even if it takes 10 years to put a dent in it. What I find frustrating is that planners seem to be by the book on most everything yet they cannot explain to you why things like setbacks were established as-is 40-50 years ago, all they know is that is the rule. Nothing positive ever gets done. Meanwhile we get more and more garbage like Brighton popping up and thousands more cars clogging the roads.

I'm in the process of designing a DDI for Taylor/Circle on CAD or even Open Roads via trial software just to show that it's possible; and if it is, then what's the hold up?

Yep, you're preaching to the choir. There's no shortage of low-hanging fruit in the area for large-scale developments, like the southwest corners of Broadway and 8th, or Broadway and Taylor. Closer to the core, a recent demolition has made the southwest corner of Victoria and 11th look like a good candidate for infill in my opinion (though that could be said for much of Victoria).

Eastlake and Melrose have always bugged me too. At some points, they're six lanes wide (including parking lanes), with no painted lane markings, no sidewalks, and little traffic. Also, the houses don't front the avenues, which drains the area of character and a sense of life. I wish that houses on Eastlake and Melrose could be zoned for rowhouses facing the avenues, and that lanes could be marked and sidewalks built. I'd also be in favour of zoning allowing lots to be subdivided, though most lots in the area are already pretty narrow. Allowing garage suites might be another option as well.

(Sorry for being a bit off-topic in the "roads and infrastructure" thread.)

[hunter12]

Proposed changes to this intersection.

https://www.saskatoon.ca/sites/defau...r_august_8.pdf

[phone]

Originally Posted by hunter12

Proposed changes to this intersection.

https://www.saskatoon.ca/sites/defau...r_august_8.pdf

So the point is to avoid T-Bone collisions? I didn't realize that was a problem at that intersection. Just install proper signals, Main Street isn't so busy as to risk turning the street into a highway, and this will turn navigating the area into a major PITA (speaking as someone who crosses Clarence on Main St on a fairly regular basis on my everyday goings about). I'd prefer the status quo over what they're proposing...

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by phone

So the point is to avoid T-Bone collisions? I didn't realize that was a problem at that intersection. Just install proper signals, Main Street isn't so busy as to risk turning the street into a highway, and this will turn navigating the area into a major PITA (speaking as someone who crosses Clarence on Main St on a fairly regular basis on my everyday goings about). I'd prefer the status quo over what they're proposing...

It would be nice to see some statistics to back up this proposal.

However, I do think a lot of the traffic heading West on Main turns right at that intersection. Plus, there are lights at 12th and 8th, so if you want to navigate East/West would that really be so much of a detour?

[phone]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

It would be nice to see some statistics to back up this proposal.

However, I do think a lot of the traffic heading West on Main turns right at that intersection. Plus, there are lights at 12th and 8th, so if you want to navigate East/West would that really be so much of a detour?

My mind was focused on 8th, but you are right about 12th. Taking Main can avoid awkward left turns onto 8th, but that's irrelevant if you are heading north. Perhaps I'm being shortsighted due to this summer's closure of 12th Street west of Clarence, which has temporarily turned Main into the only E-W collector in and out of Nutana south of Temperance.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by phone

My mind was focused on 8th, but you are right about 12th. Taking Main can avoid awkward left turns onto 8th, but that's irrelevant if you are heading north. Perhaps I'm being shortsighted due to this summer's closure of 12th Street west of Clarence, which has temporarily turned Main into the only E-W collector in and out of Nutana south of Temperance.

It makes sense that a road closure would change your opinion. When I lived in Nutana I would almost always take 8th or 12th depending on my final destination. I think some people use Main as an alternative to 8th or 14th if they are travelling between Circle and Clarence, but it would surprise me if a lot of east/west traffic used it between Broadway and Clarence since IMO 8th and 12th are faster and in better condition.

[Arts]

Originally Posted by hunter12

Proposed changes to this intersection.

https://www.saskatoon.ca/sites/defau...r_august_8.pdf

So many times I have been on Main St and need to get from the east side of Clarence to the west side - unless you fluke out and get a really lucky break in traffic you can't cross Clarence and end up doing those traffic movements that this proposal now forces you to do anyways. I suppose it prevents maniacal drivers from crossing when they shouldn't, but when I saw the title of this post I thought "yay finally a traffic signal at that intersection"... now I'm torn between traffic signal to cater to crossers vs RIRO only. I definitely don't see the benefit to committing to concrete curb/channelization: if anything just put up "right-turn only signage" and if that is not enough to stop cars from crossing put a median barrier at that intersection along Clarence.

[Wyku]

Wow, does this look silly. I don't know why they haven't added things like LEFT turning lanes here in the interest of safety, but they're going with this odd-ball design. If they're suggesting that it would take 12 minutes to cross Highway 16 by 2035, how much traffic is there going to be that you'll have to cut across three lanes of traffic to get over to your U-turn lane?

Video posted on the Highway Hotline Facebook Page:
https://fb.watch/lWlFqJHxB6/

Description of the project on the Sask government website:
https://www.saskatchewan.ca/governme...n-near-dalmeny