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  #81  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 5:30 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
I didn't ignore anything but you and CNN on the other hand sure are ignoring who's causing the rioting.
You mean the White Supremacists coming in from out of town:

https://www.courthousenews.com/minne...macist-groups/

I agree. CNN should cover that story a bit more. Yeah, those provocateurs are a problem. Give them proper due process and prosecute them to the full extent of the law.

When those fuckers aren't around, it's amazing how peacefully protests go down. Of all places, here is how it played out in Flint, Michigan. This is a Sheriff taking selfies with protesters:



You keep making excuses for Trump and deflecting from his history of, defence of and deference to bigotry. Why is that?
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  #82  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
You mean the White Supremacists coming in from out of town:

https://www.courthousenews.com/minne...macist-groups/

I agree. CNN should cover that story a bit more. Yeah, those provocateurs are a problem. Give them proper due process and prosecute them to the full extent of the law.

When those fuckers aren't around, it's amazing how peacefully protests go down. Of all places, here is how it played out in Flint, Michigan. This is a Sheriff taking selfies with protesters:



You keep making excuses for Trump and deflecting from his history of, defence of and deference to bigotry. Why is that?
Why do you keep making assumptions? Is your world so black & white that if a person does one thing wrong that makes them a completely evil person? And why are you relying on CNN so much? Their credibility is long gone when it comes to political matters.

From the article you referenced:

He said some of the 40 arrests made in the Twin Cities Friday night were of people linked to white supremacist groups and organized crime.

Some? Is that like five? How many Antifa people have been arrested?

Since you love taking shots I'm going to take one at you which I know you'll ignore or try to skirt around. Why aren't you calling out Hussen and Justin for playing the race card over this issue? Talk about trying to score cheap political points.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 6:02 AM
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damn!
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  #84  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 6:04 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Since you love taking shots I'm going to take one at you which I know you'll ignore or try to skirt around. Why aren't you calling out Hassan and Justin for playing the race card over this issue? Talk about trying to score cheap political points.
I'll answer as soon as you tell us why you're okay with Trump's birtherism, refusal to house black tenants, and advocacy for the execution of innocent black defendants.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 6:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
I'll answer as soon as you tell us why you're okay with Trump's birtherism, refusal to house black tenants, and advocacy for the execution of innocent black defendants.
Answer now and stop making false accusations against me. Also, when are you going to delete your post accusing me of being an anti-Semite? You need to stop doing shit like that and stop now.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 6:23 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Answer now
You first. You asked if I thought Trump was trying to incite a race riot. I answered and provided plenty of substantiation on why I think he's a bigot and has a history with such. I don't dodge out of difficult questions.

But every time the topic comes up you deflect to some other topic or bring up some other world leader.

Do you believe Trump is free of bigotry? Yes or no. Pretty simple question.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 6:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
You first. You asked if I thought Trump was trying to incite a race riot. I answered and provided plenty of substantiation on why I think he's a bigot and has a history with such.

But every time the topic comes up you deflect to some other topic or bring up some other world leader.

Do you believe Trump is free of bigotry? Yes or no. Pretty simple question.
You didn't answer and you don't get to make the rules.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 6:31 AM
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And just to add, these riots are expanding precisely because Trump is a racist incompetent who only knows how to throw gas on the fire and has no ability to de-escalate. These kinds of nationwide riots were less common, and less destructive under Obama, Bush, Clinton...

This level of racial tension in the US hasn't been seen since the Civil Rights Era. I wonder why....
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  #89  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 6:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
And just to add, these riots are expanding precisely because Trump is a racist incompetent who only knows how to throw gas on the fire and has no ability to de-escalate. These kinds of nationwide riots were less common, and less destructive under Obama, Bush, Clinton...

This level of racial tension in the US hasn't been seen since the Civil Rights Era. I wonder why....

I don't think anyone car argue against the bolded...
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  #90  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 7:11 AM
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I don't think anyone car argue against the bolded...
Nixon went to the Lincoln Memorial to meet anti-war protesters. Obama met protesters in the White House after protests about Michael Brown's shooting. Trump on the other hand sees videos of NYPD SUVs ramming into protesters and applauds them on Twitter. Weak man's idea of a strong man.

I doubt any of this would have escalated this far under another President. Incidentally, the spillover means that Trump's incompetence is also a threat to our security as tensions get enflamed here.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 9:45 AM
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Often ignored in these debates, is the militarization of police
That's pretty obviously a direct consequence of their sacred Second Amendment. Police work in a First World Democracy Where The Guy You're About to Deal With Is Probably Armed vs Police Work in a First World Democracy Where Guns Are Illegal and Very Rare = that's a major difference in how you have to approach the very job.

It's extremely logical to an outside observer (say, a rational extraterrestrial being who just popped up on our planet) that if everyone in a given society has easy access to guns (all other factors being equal), it will result in more militarized cops.

Valid in all contexts too. For example, if you group is tasked with keeping law and order in a group of X unarmed medieval serfs, you can be equipped with clubs and it'll be fine; now if it's X medieval knights you have to police, and they all have swords, you likely need bigger swords, and shields, and armor.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
And just to add, these riots are expanding precisely because Trump is a racist incompetent who only knows how to throw gas on the fire and has no ability to de-escalate. These kinds of nationwide riots were less common, and less destructive under Obama, Bush, Clinton...

This level of racial tension in the US hasn't been seen since the Civil Rights Era. I wonder why....
Trump is someone who has convinced himself he is not racist while at the same time being racist. Over the years I have know several people like this, they will say "I like black people, natives, Hispanics, Asian and never treat anyone badly." then treat when forced to make a decision race will play a role.

Trump is a property developer turned reality TV celebrity. He know how to create controversy and generate buzz. His vocation in life is focused on creating buzz.

Obama, Bush, Clinton, are all lawyers turned politicians. Along the way they have learned how to listen, how to build logical argument from emotional argument and how to build consensus. Trump does not have these skills and he has demonstrated he is not going to develop them. They need to take his device away from him before he does more harm.

The US now has a vacuum of leadership and it is unclear who will be able to step in to create a solution people can rally around.

Until that happens I am worried people are going to continue to rally around George Floyd. The issue is that the George Floyd killing is a problem and not a solution. This is not going anywhere until someone can articulate a solution.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
That's pretty obviously a direct consequence of their sacred Second Amendment. Police work in a First World Democracy Where The Guy You're About to Deal With Is Probably Armed vs Police Work in a First World Democracy Where Guns Are Illegal and Very Rare = that's a major difference in how you have to approach the very job.

It's extremely logical to an outside observer (say, a rational extraterrestrial being who just popped up on our planet) that if everyone in a given society has easy access to guns (all other factors being equal), it will result in more militarized cops.

Valid in all contexts too. For example, if you group is tasked with keeping law and order in a group of X unarmed medieval serfs, you can be equipped with clubs and it'll be fine; now if it's X medieval knights you have to police, and they all have swords, you likely need bigger swords, and shields, and armor.
The setup where you have the policy in a line (with the goal of holding the line) all equipped with riot gear is fairly indicative of what the outcome will be. Then when the curfew comes, they have a reason to clear the street by moving forward.

If the police were in their normal gear and were able to just walk among the crowds the dynamics would be very different. So it is safe for them to do that?

Some of the news reports out of the US are talking about U-haul trucks parted outside of stores that are to be broken into for taking the goods away. Stashes of bricks pre-positioned for use in the protest. Cars prep-positioned with combustibles. There is something odd about all of this. Is there some organised crime group using the protest as a cover? I don't know.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 10:47 AM
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People trying to draw some kind of equivalence re:racism vs "reverse racism" or classism, sexism or ageism, etc only ever do so to justify preserving inequality for selfish reasons. Complaining of "reverse racism" is as dumb as "straight pride", the kind of stupidity unique to men's rights incels with no grasp of power structures.

I don't throw around the word intersectionality, but any white person going "where's my privilege? I'm poor/fat/disabled/a woman, etc" seem to forget that blacks can be all of those things too thus have it even worse.
I have already admitted that in the North American comtext racism by whites probably has graver impacts than other groups being racist.

But it is still not enough for you.

Nothing but full capitulation is sufficient.

That is why this will go nowhere.

Not because of me or your other nemeses on here.

But because of human nature.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 11:11 AM
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Gay people did not make tremendous progress towards equality by saying it was ok to call hetero people homophobic breeder pieces of shit, simply because they are straight.

(Even if, yeah, it is true that some straight people were and are homophobic pieces of shit.)
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  #96  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I have already admitted that in the North American comtext racism by whites probably has graver impacts than other groups being racist.

But it is still not enough for you.

Nothing but full capitulation is sufficient.

That is why this will go nowhere.

Not because of me or your other nemeses on here.

But because of human nature.
The 1969 Montreal police strike example is also confirmation that cops are here to stay, and they have finite resources and can't be expected to work blindly, ergo, profiling. I'm a target from time to time (male, young, and sometimes in situations that raise suspicion) and don't blame the cops for not arresting a quota of 50% females. Though I have a not-unrelated great dislike for my hometown cops and won't anymore go out of my way to help them. So I can understand that too.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 11:34 AM
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There is lots of talk about "Karen" these days.

Karen might think what happened to George Floyd was horrible and that the cops should be jailed, but Karen still won't support overthrowing the entire system in which cops exist.

People should focus on what wins are within reach.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 11:55 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
There is lots of talk about "Karen" these days.

Karen might think what happened to George Floyd was horrible and that the cops should be jailed, but Karen still won't support overthrowing the entire system in which cops exist.

People should focus on what wins are within reach.
Karen is usually the one calling the cops on African Americans for birdwatching in the park or waiting at Starbucks for business colleagues or for taking a nap in the common area in university because they don't believe black people can go to Yale.

There's male Karens too. One called the cops on a black family for using a pool in their own neighbourhood because he didn't believe a black family could afford to live in the complex. But male Karens in the US usually just grab their shotgun and execute blacks that offend them. Including for the offence of jogging while black.
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  #99  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 11:56 AM
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"Usually"????? execute blacks???

BTW female and male Karens vote. And there are lots of them.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 12:09 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
Some of the news reports out of the US are talking about U-haul trucks parted outside of stores that are to be broken into for taking the goods away. Stashes of bricks pre-positioned for use in the protest. Cars prep-positioned with combustibles. There is something odd about all of this. Is there some organised crime group using the protest as a cover? I don't know.
Criminals taking advantage of the chaos? Shocker.

There's plenty of reports of black protesters attempting to stop vandals in thieves.

Here's one pleading with a white woman to stop spray painting:
https://twitter.com/gryking/status/1...596632066?s=09

Here's one who got called out breaking windows. They suspected he was a cop because he was wearing a police issue mask:

https://youtu.be/qv-O4rnUToU
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