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  #1121  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2020, 9:08 PM
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And Printemps, Le Bon Marche, in France.
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  #1122  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2020, 9:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
I just realized in the other mall thread in City Discussions (aka: the American forum) that Canada doesn’t have a mid-market department store chain anymore, with the exception of those Hudson’s Bays that didn’t go upscale.

I know that that whole sector is dying quickly in the US, but there still are Macy’s and Dillards’ hanging around. In European countries they seem to be more resilient: places like Debenham’s, C&A, M&S, Karstadt etc.
My general impression was that the North American department store chains were bled dry by investors. Pocket the cash, don't put money into improving the store itself, get out before the whole thing collapses.

Was there something inherently wrong with the department model itself? It still seems to be working in other parts of the world.

Mall specialty stores have kind of taken up the middle ground between Wal-Mart/Giant Tiger and the higher end designer shops, the one which was once filled by the likes of Eaton's, The Bay, Sears, Brettons, etc.
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  #1123  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 4:53 AM
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Debenhams isn't doing very well. Covid hasn't helped.

Debenhams to close more stores with the loss of 300 jobs
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52979759

M&S is looking at buying Victoria's Secret, the UK stores/division

M&S and Next compete for UK arm of Victoria's Secret
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ctorias-secret

where does Simons fit? its not quite a department store, not that high end, most of its clothes are well priced in house brands with some designer pieces thrown in. It doesn't have a beauty/cosmetics department so it doesn't qualify as a department store, just a large clothing store.
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  #1124  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
My general impression was that the North American department store chains were bled dry by investors. Pocket the cash, don't put money into improving the store itself, get out before the whole thing collapses.

Was there something inherently wrong with the department model itself? It still seems to be working in other parts of the world.

Mall specialty stores have kind of taken up the middle ground between Wal-Mart/Giant Tiger and the higher end designer shops, the one which was once filled by the likes of Eaton's, The Bay, Sears, Brettons, etc.
Certainly investor bleeding was a big problem. I think a lot of brands prefer to move product through their own stores and there just aren’t that many Department store brands left. I still buy the odd thing at the Bay, but it tends to either be odd things where I don’t know where else to go (a quality umbrella) or deeply discounted clearance stuff.
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  #1125  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 1:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
My general impression was that the North American department store chains were bled dry by investors. Pocket the cash, don't put money into improving the store itself, get out before the whole thing collapses.

Was there something inherently wrong with the department model itself? It still seems to be working in other parts of the world.

Mall specialty stores have kind of taken up the middle ground between Wal-Mart/Giant Tiger and the higher end designer shops, the one which was once filled by the likes of Eaton's, The Bay, Sears, Brettons, etc.
I would look at it differently.

The mid-market department store business (e.g., selling stuff in big full service stores) has been failing for some time. The reason these businesses were attractive to certain investors is not the retail business. Most of these investors would have passed on having anything to do with that. It was their portfolio of real-estate they own and the credit card business they had.

Even the property they don't own have multi-decade leases with locked in rent that is extremely attractive. Many of these leases were signed when the shopping center was being proposed and were part of the business case for building the center in the first place.

Once you strip away the parts of the business that are profitable your left with the retail part. It is not clear that business area can stand on its own feet.

Growing up in Vancouver it was Woodwards, Wolco, and Army&Navy as the major ones my parents would go to. Followed by Sears, and to a lesser extent Zellers and the Bay. Eatons from time to time.

The only thing that remains of the Wolco company today is the FootLocker. There leases were sold to Walmart. Army & Navy finally shutdown, but it has been decades since I have been in their store. The other ones all merged into the Bay or Sears.
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  #1126  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
Debenhams isn't doing very well. Covid hasn't helped.

Debenhams to close more stores with the loss of 300 jobs
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52979759

M&S is looking at buying Victoria's Secret, the UK stores/division

M&S and Next compete for UK arm of Victoria's Secret
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ctorias-secret

where does Simons fit? its not quite a department store, not that high end, most of its clothes are well priced in house brands with some designer pieces thrown in. It doesn't have a beauty/cosmetics department so it doesn't qualify as a department store, just a large clothing store.
I've always wondered why that is missing from Simons - I thought that's were the money was for most department stores.
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  #1127  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 7:44 PM
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Our traditional department stores failed because in their attempt to serve everyone, they ended up appealing to no one. They didn't offer the cheaper prices of the warehouse type outlets that didn't have the much higher mall lease rates and conversely don't offer the more personalised service and unique consumer goods of the small ones.

Malls had at least 2 anchors..........a grocery store and a department store and they were ALWAYS located at the opposite ends of the malls. This required people to walk across the mall to go from one to the other and passing all those smaller discretionary spending based stores along the way. Now that the one anchor is gone, people no longer have a reason to venture outside of the grocery store. This is why many malls have died and the only stores that survived the carnage are the grocery and pharmacies.
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  #1128  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 10:29 PM
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I never got the concept of a grocery store as being a mall anchor. Even when we used to shop at a grocery store attached to a mall, I got my groceries and got out of there, going in to the mall was never a consideration.
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  #1129  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2020, 1:08 AM
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At a mall I went to in Perth Australia it had 8 anchors. 8! Most of the other malls I went to in Perth, Melbourne, and Sydney were the same, they had at least 2 grocery stores in them.

They had two Department Stores, David Jones and Myer, both are like Hudson Bay or Macys, some high end but not like Nordstrom or Holt Renfrew, and then there were 4 grocery stores, Woolworths, Coles, Farmer Jacks and Aldi. And three lower end department stores, the Big W, sort of like Walmart, Target and Kmart, in Australia Kmart is the trendy one everyone loves and Target is nothing special lol.

It also had a metro train station built underneath it, which was handy.

It had a recent extension, an outdoor lifestyle addition which was lots of restaurants, was quite nice.




you can see where the train is in this pic
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  #1130  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2020, 2:14 AM
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From my trips to Oz, I got a sense that big box barf wasn't nearly as far advanced (the cancer, that is) as it is in Canada and the Excited States.
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  #1131  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2020, 3:47 AM
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Has this thread included New Horizon mall north of Calgary?
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  #1132  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2020, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
Has this thread included New Horizon mall north of Calgary?
Yeah. It's back a way but it's here. The first Canadian purpose-built dead mall.
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  #1133  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2020, 1:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
Yeah. It's back a way but it's here. The first Canadian purpose-built dead mall.
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  #1134  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2020, 1:54 PM
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Wasn't there a similar failed concept in Vancouver? International Village Mall, or whatnot?
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  #1135  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2020, 4:33 PM
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when international village opened it was pretty full, but it slowly died as the big brand names pulled out, like BCBG, Benetton etc. I haven't really been there in a while but it does ok on the main floor and the movie theatre.

Aberdeen Square in Richmond is also a strata mall and its been mostly empty since opening, it might be at 50% now, the food court last time I went only had about two vendors in it.
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