HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #461  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2011, 5:11 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 8,087


Quote:
Florida's high court rules for Gov. Scott — high-speed rail dead in Florida


The bid to bring a high-speed train to Florida is dead.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is sending the $2.4 billion once promised to Florida to other states after Gov. Rick Scott on Friday rejected the stimulus money one more time.

In Tallahassee, the Florida Supreme Court unanimously turned down the request of two state senators to force Scott to accept the money to build the train that would have run between Orlando Intenational Airport and Tampa by 2015.

Scott's office issued a statement saying he was "gratified that the court provided a clear and unanimous decision, [and] he is now focused on moving forward with infrastructure projects that create long-term jobs and turn Florida's economy around."

Underscoring that point, Scott said in Miami that he was directing the state Department of Transportation to spend $77 million to dredge the port there so it can handle larger ships that will be moving through the soon-to-be-widened Panama Canal. . . . .READ MORE

Source: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,5687876.story
__________________
Revelation 21:4
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #462  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2011, 5:21 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 8,087
Here's my favorite part:

Quote:
"The Governor's Office issued a statement that said Scott was 'gratified that the court provided a clear and unanimous decision, [and] he is now focused on moving forward with infrastructure projects that create long-term jobs and turn Florida's economy around.'"
I swear, politicians can be so cluelessly crooked.
__________________
Revelation 21:4
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #463  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2011, 7:37 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Great news, and likely means a brighter future for high speed rail, whether in Florida or elsewhere.

Just throwing billions at sprawling suburban corridors would have been a receipe for disaster. Time to allocate based on need, rather than on political considerations.

And Florida taxpayers are saved hundreds of millions of dollars in endless annual operating costs. Maybe those monies can be spent on improved bus service in urban areas, or would that make too much sense?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #464  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2011, 8:14 PM
NYonward's Avatar
NYonward NYonward is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,236
A colossally boneheaded and short-term view of the world. Great news for states with vision like California. Bring the money to New York where we desperately need high speed rail infrastructure.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #465  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2011, 8:17 PM
brickell's Avatar
brickell brickell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: County of Dade
Posts: 9,379
Ha. No.
The money will go to corporate tax breaks and highway expansion.
__________________
That's what did it in the end. Not the money, not the music, not even the guns. That is my heroic flaw: my excess of civic pride.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #466  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2011, 9:50 PM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,913
Upcoming House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee hearing

This hearing will be available via webcast.

Finding Ways to Encourage and Increase Private Sector Participation in Passenger Rail Service

2167 Rayburn House Office Building
March 11, 2011

http://transportation.house.gov/hear...px?NewsID=1149
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #467  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2011, 10:19 PM
nomarandlee's Avatar
nomarandlee nomarandlee is online now
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by brickell View Post
Ha. No.
The money will go to corporate tax breaks and highway expansion.
How is that? It was a one off specially allocated money. It will simply be given to other HSR programs that do want it. Frankly there are other programs in the NEC and California where there is more of a likely hood of a potentially successful program that can later spur a more positive mood elsewhere to the benefits of higher speed rail.

Still, I think investing hundreds of billions in HSR is a boondoggle with far less benefit compared to doing serious upgrades in our nations mass transit systems in dozens of cities around the country. I would much rather have rapid transit systems in our top 20 largest metros that compared well to the top 20 metros in Europe instead of having that resembled their HSR system but that is another topic..........
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #468  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2011, 10:36 PM
brickell's Avatar
brickell brickell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: County of Dade
Posts: 9,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
How is that? It was a one off specially allocated money. It will simply be given to other HSR programs that do want it.
I was referring to any monies saved by not subsidizing the line after it's built (see Crawford's post).

I do agree that the money could be spent better in other places, but dammit, this was our money. This was likely our one chance of making a difference in the way Florida urbanizes. Now it's gone. Under the current political makeup we'll see nothing but sprawl and highways. So you'll have to forgive me for being just a little bit selfish and bitter about losing out on that chance.
__________________
That's what did it in the end. Not the money, not the music, not even the guns. That is my heroic flaw: my excess of civic pride.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #469  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 12:54 AM
Jasonhouse Jasonhouse is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 23,744
The only highways FL will get will be privatized toll roads, you can count on it for sure now.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #470  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 2:54 AM
UrbanImpact's Avatar
UrbanImpact UrbanImpact is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,356
If only that Florida HSR money could go towards towards decent transit projects here in South Florida..........one of the densest parts of the country.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #471  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 4:19 AM
Jasonhouse Jasonhouse is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 23,744
Not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening so long as a Republican is governor of Florida.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #472  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 4:22 PM
Lakelander's Avatar
Lakelander Lakelander is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 3,867
I expect Scott to take down Sunrail next. He's a hypocrite if he doesn't. I also wouldn't be suprised if he tries to screw Tri-Rail also. He's been using it as the main reason why investing in rail is a bad thing.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/0...ail-while.html
__________________
Metro Jacksonville
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #473  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 9:33 PM
Jasonhouse Jasonhouse is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 23,744
^Agreed. I'll also be shocked if the state turnpike system isn't privatized during his term for a song.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #474  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 9:43 PM
Beta_Magellan's Avatar
Beta_Magellan Beta_Magellan is offline
Technocrat in Your Tank!
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 648
I guess the challenge for Florida’s transport advocates will now be keeping the I-4 median clear…

Has there been any progress on restoring Amtrak service to the east coast? I think it was part of a cross-country route, so there wouldn’t be the same requirements for local funding. From what I remember, it was supposed to be fairly quick, averaging 60 mph between Miami and Jacksonville, so definitely competitive with bus and automobile.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #475  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 10:05 PM
Jasonhouse Jasonhouse is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 23,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta_Magellan View Post
I guess the challenge for Florida’s transport advocates will now be keeping the I-4 median clear…
I fully expect it to be filled in with a privatized express lanes asap, so that HSR can't even get built later. Then, people will get to either sit in bumper-to-bumper traffic and take hours to get where they're going, or pay like $0.50 a mile to drive the 'express' lanes down the middle.



I hope that whoever the feds give the Florida HSR money to, they provide enough funding to recipients to actually build a proper line, and not some half-assed stop gap measure that will only make the concept look bad. Please, for the love of God don't give this to lines that will only be 79mph or whatever. That was the one good thing about the Tampa-Orlando-Miami plan was that it was going to be full-blown HSR right from the start , and it was going to cost less than the cost of adding a single lane each way to the interstate.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #476  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 10:24 PM
afiggatt afiggatt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta_Magellan View Post
I guess the challenge for Florida’s transport advocates will now be keeping the I-4 median clear…

Has there been any progress on restoring Amtrak service to the east coast? I think it was part of a cross-country route, so there wouldn’t be the same requirements for local funding. From what I remember, it was supposed to be fairly quick, averaging 60 mph between Miami and Jacksonville, so definitely competitive with bus and automobile.
Starting Amtrak long distance and corridor service down the FEC route down the east coast of Florida will require matching state funding. The recent plan from the Florida DOT has the state putting up $118 million while seeking around $140 million of federal HSIPR funding. There is apparently widespread support for starting Amtrak service along the route from the local communities and from Amtrak who, if I recall my skim reading of last year's application, agreed to provide several trainsets of equipment to start daily corridor service on the FEC even though Amtrak is strapped for spare equipment. The FEC is reportedly in very good condition and, for $260 million total to add some connecting tracks, adjust timing for the grade crossings, build or refurb some stations, would provide 90 mph speeds and trip times competitive with driving. Low hanging fruit for starting useful passenger train service.

But the latest Florida DOT plan was announced around the time Gov. Scott took office. Since the passenger service over the FEC would require state subsidies and state funding, given how hostile Scott has been to the HSR plans and appears to be ideologically hostile to transit in general, he may move to kill the FEC project as well. It may have to wait until Scott leaves office, but the damage he may do to Florida transit and long term projects while he is in office could take many years to recover from.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #477  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2011, 11:03 PM
Jasonhouse Jasonhouse is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 23,744
^I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but Scott will definitely kill absolutely any form of passenger rail that comes across his desk. HSR was the only one where private enterprise was picking up much of the tab, and it was coming along at a time when the investment would have really made a difference, yet he killed it anyways. Scott stated plain as day last week that so long as he is in office, the only thing the state govt will spend any money on is roads and boosting the ability of the state's ports to receive imports. Transit is dead in Florida. Forget even bothering to think about it until this corporatist is out of office, at the earliest.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #478  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2011, 5:56 PM
Jasonhouse Jasonhouse is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 23,744
So I wonder when we'll hear where Fl's money is going now?

Wasn't WI's and OH's money redirected rather quickly?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #479  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2011, 8:06 PM
afiggatt afiggatt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
So I wonder when we'll hear where Fl's money is going now?

Wasn't WI's and OH's money redirected rather quickly?
In the case of WI and OH, they had more warning because Walker and Kaisch ran on a platform of attacking the rail projects. The redirection happened in mid-December, around 4-5 weeks after the elections. The decisions they made were easier, because the FRA directed the funding to fully match the request amounts or provide more in the grant applications that were originally selected.

Now, many of the applications that were selected are fully funded, so the FRA may have to make new awards from the original batch of applications, but to other projects on the corridors that have been funded. The re-direction is more complicated because Florida is returning funding from 2 pots: around $1.6 billion of stimulus funding and $800 million of FY2010 funding (which requires 20% state matching). The clock is ticking on the stimulus funding because work has to start, as I understand it, before the end of 2012. What the rules are for the FY2010 funds, don't know.

LaHood and the FRA also may want to wait a few days to sort out their options and to check with the states to confirm that they can put the funding to use in time. And the Governor of the state won't throw it back.

My guess is that California HSR will get the largest share of the re-directed funds. Candidates for the rest of the Florida funds are Chicago-St. Louis and Chicago-Detroit corridors, WA state, CT for new Haven to Springfield, NY state for the Empire corridor, PA for Keystone East, SC for the Raleigh to Charlotte portion of the SEHSR, maybe some for the NEC but there are few ready to start construction by 2012 high profile projects on the NEC.

No idea on if the USDOT and FRA will make any announcements this week or even next week.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #480  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2011, 5:04 AM
Beta_Magellan's Avatar
Beta_Magellan Beta_Magellan is offline
Technocrat in Your Tank!
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 648
Last time the money was redirected it was mostly (if not entirely) to projects that weren’t given given all the funding they requested, so it either brought the federal funding match either to the full amount that the state requested or close to it. I would suspect something similar to happen again with this next round of redistribution.

I also think California will get the largest share of the funds, around 1/2 or less. My next guesses would be more money for SEHSR and Michigan, although I’m not familiar enough with the funding requests to make more than a general guess.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:18 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.