NEW YORK | 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn) | 1,200 FT / 388 M | 61 FLOORS

[NYguy]

A few more graphics from the link...

[pianowizard]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

I love-hate it, the parts that jut out are ugly, but the concept is cool.

I too appreciate the concept - I think people will really enjoy working in this building, and productivity will increase -- but on the outside it is so ugly that, probably for the first time ever, I actually wish a supertall were not supertall, so that the ugliness would be less prominent in the skyline. I wish it were a skinny 400' high rise.

[JMKeynes]

I like this tower, but I highly doubt that this is what will rise here. This area is still a huge work in progress, and no Black Rock type of company will pay $150-$200/sf to work in this dump. 20 years from now, the area might be amazing. Right now, it is not, and regardless of how delusional Steve Roth is, a supertall on this site won't rise for quite some time.

[Zerton]

I agree that it looks like a great place to work, and I like the details / outdoor spaces. But on the skyline it looks messy and disproportionate. It looks even worse next to the ESB with its tapered art deco massing.

[Visionist]

I preferred the Facebook design.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I like this tower, but I highly doubt that this is what will rise here. This area is still a huge work in progress, and no Black Rock type of company will pay $150-$200/sf to work in this dump. 20 years from now, the area might be amazing. Right now, it is not, and regardless of how delusional Steve Roth is, a supertall on this site won't rise for quite some time.

You fail to understand the concept of planning. Do you thinking companies were dying to move over to the wasteland that was the west side before the Hudson Yards was rezoned and started construction?

[Dylan Dude]

Originally Posted by NYguy

You fail to understand the concept of planning. Do you thinking companies were dying to move over to the wasteland that was the west side before the Hudson Yards was rezoned and started construction?

Man you're knowledgeable on what's going on but you always got an attitude on like every thread

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by NYguy

You fail to understand the concept of planning. Do you thinking companies were dying to move over to the wasteland that was the west side before the Hudson Yards was rezoned and started construction?

I'm well-aware of the concept. This area needs a lot of cleaning up before a trophy tower that seeks extreme rents can rise. They can start with the heinous block to the north of the Hotel Penn, which is an odious anathema per se.

[pico44]

Looks pretty terrible. My least favorite trend in mid-century skyscraper design was the attached mechanical shaft. It looks like Lizord Foster is single-handily trying to revive this trend, and he can go #@(&* himself

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Dylan Dude

Man you're knowledgeable on what's going on but you always got an attitude on like every thread

No attitude, slightly annoyed.

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I'm well-aware of the concept. This area needs a lot of cleaning up before a trophy tower that seeks extreme rents can rise.

And what was the west side? A Garden of Eden?

Originally Posted by pico44

Looks pretty terrible. My least favorite trend in mid-century skyscraper design was the attached mechanical shaft. It looks like Lizord Foster is single-handily trying to revive this trend, and he can go #@(&* himself

Foster and Partners can do better. The problem with this design is that it's almost too futuristic. It's not something we are used to seeing because so many of New York's skyscrapers are so old. But this looks like something you would see in a sci-fi flick about a futuristic society. You almost expect to see flying cars landing on those terraces.

But, it's where we are in terms of what the market wants. There is a way that it can be done without looking like a building that would rise on Mars, but this is really just another version of the Spiral. I don't like this design so close to the ESB, but it will be in a forest of towers, so that softens it up. I still don't like the wings on the base. We'll see what evolves from this.

[Music guy]

Can't help notice we haven't seen one rendering of the 33rd St. face. That nearly 300' of blank (perhaps glass?) wall along 33rd with no fenestrations or retail street activity seems un-New York-like. New York is fabulous because of its endless street activity. That's one of the reasons MSG is so freaking awful at its base...no street activity. Blank walls in highly urbane NYC don't work well, imo.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Music guy

Can't help notice we haven't seen one rendering of the 33rd St. face. That nearly 300' of blank (perhaps glass?) wall along 33rd with no fenestrations or retail street activity seems un-New York-like. New York is fabulous because of its endless street activity. That's one of the reasons MSG is so freaking awful at its base...no street activity. Blank walls in highly urbane NYC don't work well, imo.

Looks like there could be some visible elevators on that side.

[Music guy]

Thanks. True. And though impenetrable at grade, could make for a fairly kinetic facade, especially at night if imaginatively lighted...sort of a Portman-like atrium viewed through glass. Could make for some intriguing nighttime street views.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Music guy

Thanks. True. And though impenetrable at grade, could make for a fairly kinetic facade, especially at night if imaginatively lighted...sort of a Portman-like atrium viewed through glass. Could make for some intriguing nighttime street views.

We will see, if they release any more renderings of this design. Could add a touch of color as well.

[Crawford]

The direct connections to Penn will be a big deal.

And Vornado, when they got the rezoning, agreed to restore the Gimbels passageway. This means that someone working here will have direct underground access to Penn/Herald Square and Times Square/Port Authority. With the connections to Penn and the Port Authority, you'll basically be able to commute from anywhere in the tristate area without stepping outside.

Technically it isn't a restoration of the Gimbels passageway, it's an entirely new passageway, much wider and with higher ceilings. But this will mean anyone can now walk from about 30th Street to Times Square/Port Authority underground.

There will now be three major tunnel systems in Midtown - around Grand Central, around Penn, and around Rockefeller Center. I wonder if they'll one day be connected. They come extremely close, right now, as the Rock Center tunnels now extend to Times Square, and the Grand Central tunnels extend almost across the street from Rock Center.

[manchester united]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The direct connections to Penn will be a big deal.

And Vornado, when they got the rezoning, agreed to restore the Gimbels passageway. This means that someone working here will have direct underground access to Penn/Herald Square and Times Square/Port Authority. With the connections to Penn and the Port Authority, you'll basically be able to commute from anywhere in the tristate area without stepping outside.

Technically it isn't a restoration of the Gimbels passageway, it's an entirely new passageway, much wider and with higher ceilings. But this will mean anyone can now walk from about 30th Street to Times Square/Port Authority underground.

There will now be three major tunnel systems in Midtown - around Grand Central, around Penn, and around Rockefeller Center. I wonder if they'll one day be connected. They come extremely close, right now, as the Rock Center tunnels now extend to Times Square, and the Grand Central tunnels extend almost across the street from Rock Center.

Therefore, will have the Penn station a direct access to the PATH?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by manchester united

Therefore, will have the Penn station a direct access to the PATH?

Yes. The Empire Station project includes a direct connection to the PATH.

[Kittywhompus]

I do like some of what the base of the building proposal shows. But the top of it is too much of the same everywhere else. Hate to be mean, but I think something so close to the icon Empire State Building deserves a little better. To me it looks like an old file cabinet with the drawers left open. JMO

[giantSwan]

Another part of the city, I'd be fine with this. But replacing Hotel Penn in at an entry point in the city -I'd like to see something bolder.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The direct connections to Penn will be a big deal.

Technically it isn't a restoration of the Gimbels passageway, it's an entirely new passageway, much wider and with higher ceilings. But this will mean anyone can now walk from about 30th Street to Times Square/Port Authority underground.

This is what we've been waiting for ever since 15 Penn was first approved, and got that transit improvement bonus. Now though, it seems they are not entirely certain they will rebuild the passage where it is, or move it south. That won't really matter though, it's the connection that's needed.

Originally Posted by Kittywhompus

I do like some of what the base of the building proposal shows. But the top of it is too much of the same everywhere else. Hate to be mean, but I think something so close to the icon Empire State Building deserves a little better. To me it looks like an old file cabinet with the drawers left open. JMO

I don't like that this design is so close to the ESB either. I'm not entirely convinced that this is the final design of what will get built. But even if it is, it will be a modern supertall among a collection of supertall skyscrapers that span a century. What that means is that it will be in a collection of supertalls that span from the art deco Empire State and Chrysler buildings to 15 Penn, the Spiral, etc. You don't get that anyplace on earth. From that point of view, it would be amazing. But still, if I had my way, it would be a much different design. As is, this would be among a collection of Foster supertalls in the city, if they all got built (270 Park, 50 Hudson, 2 WTC, 350 Park, 15 Penn and other Penn Plaza towers).