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  #5521  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 5:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pip View Post
Yeah you can tell when a car drives by if it's Uber. Is this what you do? Check out cars and if you see a mask on you look to see if it's Uber?

Where do you live? Street activity down? From what 8 pedestrians a day down to 2 now where you live?

People have different tolerance levels. Not everyone has the same tolerance level. I'm not some hard core masker or even paranoid. I already had COVID. It was a joke for me. Respect people, it's almost over.
Believe it or not, you actually can tell if someone drives for Uber or Lyft; they have stickers or a lighted sign placed in a prominent area. Plus, these companies are hurting so likelihood that the person in question is an Uber driver is a lot less than it was 15 months ago. These companies are having to Improvise by delivering food and other means to stay relevant. But by all means deflect from my original point.
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  #5522  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 5:54 AM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
The US State Dept advises against travel to the UK.




https://www.sfgate.com/travel/articl...s-16118369.php
Yes.... At this moment, duh.

I suspect that will change here soon for countries like the UK that have their numbers under control.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexled...h=1d1723d13eac
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  #5523  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 6:00 AM
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I'm going to possibly the safest place this summer

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...try/greenland/
Though the State Department hasn't separated it from Denmark (which... is odd actually, given the semi-autonomy and the fact that you get a Kalallit Nunaat stamp when you show up...)

NSF has negotiated a weird quarantine rule... I'll quarantine for 5 days in New York before my ANG flight to Kangerlussuaq, then 5 days in Kangerlussuaq and test, then fly to Summit Station which will be a COVID-free zone...

It's not clear what happens if anybody tests positive in Kangerlussuaq. The Air National Guard won't fly us back, so I guess we'll depend on our university's travel insurance to charter a flight or something? Fortunately our entire team will be fully vaccinated by the time we leave...
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Last edited by SIGSEGV; Apr 22, 2021 at 6:20 AM.
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  #5524  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 7:30 AM
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Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
I will be curious to hear about how things are in the UK....

I booked a one-way plane ticket to London for the end of August (spending a month in London). Hoping I hedged correctly and things are mostly back to normal there by then.
I wouldn’t hold out hope for “normal” by August or at any point this year, but the situation may be something like last summer.

The nanny state overreach is extreme over there, and the government is going overboard now (what they call “being conservative”) due to the criticism they took for not imposing stricter measures last spring. Plus the UK is a gerontocracy and until the last old bag is satisfied that she’s safe from Covid the Telegraph and Mail will make sure they are all living like semi-prisoners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
The US State Dept advises against travel to the UK.

https://www.sfgate.com/travel/articl...s-16118369.php
Why would you think anyone cares?
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  #5525  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 7:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
You just have the sense of your own immortality that's typical of the fairly young. I won't argue with you again about how valid that may be but for many people COVID was something to be validly concerned about and still is. You've just convinced yourself you are invulnerable.

And for what it's worth, I have NO (zero) faith in the mass media. My attitude toward it is based on 50 years of medical experience and knowledge along with analysis from what I can learn in valid scientific literature.
I haven’t convinced myself that I’m invulnerable, the statistical data has - at least to a very high degree of confidence. Crossing a busy street or riding a bike in London is more dangerous to me than Covid given my risk factors (or lack thereof).
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  #5526  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 10:30 AM
CaliNative CaliNative is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pip View Post
Yeah you can tell when a car drives by if it's Uber. Is this what you do? Check out cars and if you see a mask on you look to see if it's Uber?

Where do you live? Street activity down? From what 8 pedestrians a day down to 2 now where you live?

People have different tolerance levels. Not everyone has the same tolerance level. I'm not some hard core masker or even paranoid. I already had COVID. It was a joke for me. Respect people, it's almost over.
"I already had COVID. It was a joke for me"

When you had covid, did you quarentine or isolate yourself, or at least wear a mask to protect others?

Last edited by CaliNative; Apr 22, 2021 at 10:57 AM.
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  #5527  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
I haven’t convinced myself that I’m invulnerable, the statistical data has - at least to a very high degree of confidence. Crossing a busy street or riding a bike in London is more dangerous to me than Covid given my risk factors (or lack thereof).
The virus may yet mutate into variants that are more harmful to younger people, so any claims of near invulnerability are premature. If old people were less impacted than younger people, I just bet you would favor more restrictions. I may be wrong, but you only seem to care about yourself. If I am wrong about that, I apologize.

Most older people care about their lives as much as younger people, and in fact may care more, since they have less time left. Life becomes more precious as it ebbs. You cling to and savor what remains. You will find out one day.

Last edited by CaliNative; Apr 22, 2021 at 11:15 AM.
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  #5528  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Please name these countless countries.
Australia, New Zealand, South Korea and Taiwan are the leading candidates; advanced democracies that didn’t screw up. Far more advanced democracies failed, and their societies and economies suffered consequently.

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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
And let’s be clear up front that I do not agree with the approaches taken by Australia or New Zealand.
And where exactly do you disagree with the approach taken by Australia and New Zealand? That they were too successful in limiting the number of unnecessary deaths? That they have managed to dodge the long-term health issues of long-Covid rampant in many countries? That they were able to limit the mental distress to countless millions? That they were minimise the massive economic hit to their economies? That they endured far less frequent and long-lasting lockdowns, and were able to open far earlier and return to a greater degree of normality? Where exactly did their approach go wrong? I suspect that I would not be alone in seeking for you to elaborate where they went so wrong with their approaches relative to that of the UK, US and countless other countries…

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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Personal choices should have been better, but it should have been left as a personal choice.
As we have experienced over the past year, this viewpoint is fundamental to understanding why countless countries failed. Ignorance, stupidity, selfishness, or a combination of all three; perfect facilitators for a virus that needs people to collaborate with, to survive, to thrive.

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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
But the UK’s problem is it’s underfunded, underinvested and generally inadequate healthcare system
You can keep repeating the same erroneous assessment, but it will not make it a fact. I’m not going to repeat myself yet again, as I addressed this point several times previously (11th and 16th February and last on the 9th March), but running away from facts, much as how you ran away to Florida doesn’t project an image of intellectual integrity.


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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Yeah, really. For every 1 country that "got it right" according to the authoritarian porn types that hang out in this forum, there are about 100 countries that are getting bitch-smacked by COVID just like America is
If we had more competent administrations enforcing lockdowns and penalising selfishness, most countries would have got on top of this crisis and most of us would be out on the other side. I would like to hope that in the future we’d go in tough and hard rather than go half-hearted and repeat the mistakes of the past year.


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Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
I will be curious to hear about how things are in the UK....
The UK government have outlined a phased approach to reopening which is under constant review depending upon vaccination rates – which are currently amongst the highest in the world – and data around cases and any new problematic variants. Currently you can go shopping, visit the zoo, libraries, gyms, hairdressers, but you can only go to a restaurant, café, or pub where they have outdoor seating (which is why swathes of Central London have been closed off for alfresco dining).

Phase III (17th May) will mean that you can eat inside a restaurant and go to a cinema, whilst outdoor stadiums will be able to host larger crowds. Phase IV (21st June) should see all restrictions removed. International travel will be the lingering issue, the government will set out its traffic light system for countries in May, and the suggestion is that around 8 countries (including the US) will be ‘green’; Spain is assumed to be ‘amber’, and France ‘red’.

I have been out to the pub three times and restaurants twice since restrictions eased; the experience isn’t completely normal, but this phased science-based process is what ought to have happened last year, in conjunction to a competent track and trace system and closure of borders. I have also done several group (cycle) rides. I had my first vaccination 4 weeks ago.
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  #5529  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 10:52 AM
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delete

Last edited by CaliNative; Apr 22, 2021 at 11:11 AM.
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  #5530  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliNative View Post
The virus may yet mutate into variants that are more harmful to younger people
And aliens may arrive in our solar system and turn our planet into an eco-reserve resort for their tourism.

All viruses mutate, constantly. The mutations are random but the direction of travel favoured by natural selection is generally that of higher transmissibility and lower harm (both of which lead to greater spread of those viral genes).

There is no indication that any variant is more harmful to young people, despite Pedestrian’s (and other’s) attempts to twist articles about younger people making up a higher proportion of hospitalisations (because they are less likely to be vaccinated) into such.

If a variant emerges that is shown by the data to pose a much more significant risk to my own health, and these risks are also shown to not be prevented by the vaccine that I’ve already had, then I will act more cautiously in my own life until I get a vaccine for said variant. But those are two conditions that must be met and confirmed by data. I’m not going to sit here and act like I’m in danger when I’m not, but I theoretically might or might not be at some undetermined point in the future.

Back in the real world, it makes perfect sense for an older or otherwise vulnerable person who is at more risk to make more sacrifices in their daily lives out of prudence.
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  #5531  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by nito View Post
Australia, New Zealand, South Korea and Taiwan are the leading candidates; advanced democracies that didn’t screw up. Far more advanced democracies failed, and their societies and economies suffered consequently.

And where exactly do you disagree with the approach taken by Australia and New Zealand? That they were too successful in limiting the number of unnecessary deaths? That they have managed to dodge the long-term health issues of long-Covid rampant in many countries? That they were able to limit the mental distress to countless millions? That they were minimise the massive economic hit to their economies? That they endured far less frequent and long-lasting lockdowns, and were able to open far earlier and return to a greater degree of normality? Where exactly did their approach go wrong? I suspect that I would not be alone in seeking for you to elaborate where they went so wrong with their approaches relative to that of the UK, US and countless other countries…

As we have experienced over the past year, this viewpoint is fundamental to understanding why countless countries failed. Ignorance, stupidity, selfishness, or a combination of all three; perfect facilitators for a virus that needs people to collaborate with, to survive, to thrive.

You can keep repeating the same erroneous assessment, but it will not make it a fact. I’m not going to repeat myself yet again, as I addressed this point several times previously (11th and 16th February and last on the 9th March), but running away from facts, much as how you ran away to Florida doesn’t project an image of intellectual integrity.


If we had more competent administrations enforcing lockdowns and penalising selfishness, most countries would have got on top of this crisis and most of us would be out on the other side.
You are a slave.

Governments should not be able to compel us to do these things.

Australia and New Zealand are also isolated places that can more practically cut themselves off to travel; Korea and Taiwan had well established infrastructure for track & trace (which the UK government spend billions of pounds on but failed).

The NHS is an inadequate healthcare system today. It struggles with bad seasonal flu let alone Covid. The facilities, both hospitals and long-term care, are outdated and ill-suited to controlling the spread of infections. Doctors and nurses are underpaid and so it is difficult to recruit enough of them (especially the latter) such that capacity remains an issue even when the government opens lots of beds in Nightingale hospitals. I could go on but this would be pointless - challenging national myths is always bound to trigger an emotional response, and in the UK the national myth (along with WW1 being the Germans’ fault) is that the NHS is the finest healthcare system in the world.

I went to Florida because it was the best place in the world to be at the time.
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There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
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  #5532  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 1:02 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by CaliNative View Post
The virus may yet mutate into variants that are more harmful to younger people, so any claims of near invulnerability are premature. If old people were less impacted than younger people, I just bet you would favor more restrictions. I may be wrong, but you only seem to care about yourself. If I am wrong about that, I apologize.
Do you have like any idea what you are talking about, or are you simply parroting the fear-porn coming out of the media?

Why weren’t you this scared in 2019 about other theoretically scary things that hadn’t yet posed a threat to you but, “you never know, something could change and we can all be in danger”

Sorry, fear porners. The fun of sitting comfy in your home and hiding from society is going to come to an end. You will have to face the real world. Covid is not going to mutate into something different than it is and suddenly become a brand new entity. Get over it.
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  #5533  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 1:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
And aliens may arrive in our solar system and turn our planet into an eco-reserve resort for their tourism.

All viruses mutate, constantly. The mutations are random but the direction of travel favoured by natural selection is generally that of higher transmissibility and lower harm (both of which lead to greater spread of those viral genes).

There is no indication that any variant is more harmful to young people, despite Pedestrian’s (and other’s) attempts to twist articles about younger people making up a higher proportion of hospitalisations (because they are less likely to be vaccinated) into such.

If a variant emerges that is shown by the data to pose a much more significant risk to my own health, and these risks are also shown to not be prevented by the vaccine that I’ve already had, then I will act more cautiously in my own life until I get a vaccine for said variant. But those are two conditions that must be met and confirmed by data. I’m not going to sit here and act like I’m in danger when I’m not, but I theoretically might or might not be at some undetermined point in the future.
.
This
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  #5534  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 1:07 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
You simply have read only part of what I've been saying. Did you miss the part about I don't wear a mask outside anymore and have enjoyed dining in SF's restaurant "parklets" through it all? I have never been a germophobe like Hughes and saying so just proves you're in your own world. But I also have never thought any of the restrictions that affected me personally were too much of a burden and worth whining about to the extent that, say 10023 does (especially back when he couldn't go to the gym every day).
I have, but the tone of your posts says it all. You are not approaching this rationally. You are definitely among he camp of “worst case scenario” interpretations of any data out there, and it’s sad. I can see this nonsense coming out of fear-porners with likely no scientific knowledge like Cali-native, but you disappoint at another level.

Even Fauci, who leans cautious, is not talking the way you are.
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  #5535  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 1:11 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by CaliNative View Post
"I already had COVID. It was a joke for me"

When you had covid, did you quarentine or isolate yourself, or at least wear a mask to protect others?
Jeez, duh, what do you think people do when they have Covid.

You sound legitimately SPOOKED by this virus.

The mental illness caused by this pandemic is so damn insufferable.

The other end of this is those dumb shits who refuse the vaccine. People like that are on par with the fear porn folks. Seriously, I want the Covid fear porn idiots and the vaccine hesitancy fucktards to all be put on an island together so that I’m never forced to interact with them again.
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  #5536  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 1:23 PM
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Originally Posted by nito View Post
If we had more competent administrations enforcing lockdowns and penalising selfishness, most countries would have got on top of this crisis and most of us would be out on the other side. I would like to hope that in the future we’d go in tough and hard rather than go half-hearted and repeat the mistakes of the past year..
I mean, how about just moving to a country like Korea or Australia if you like how they handle things better than we do? That’s a more practical solution than telling a nation of 360 million to change what and who they are

Your bizarre perspective, which is bordering on hilarious, is like an American standing outside of a uniformed school in China blaring into a megaphone, “Allow your children to wear whatever clothes they want, it’s freedom of expression!”
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  #5537  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
I haven’t convinced myself that I’m invulnerable, the statistical data has - at least to a very high degree of confidence. Crossing a busy street or riding a bike in London is more dangerous to me than Covid given my risk factors (or lack thereof).
That is 100% not true, lol. Kinda wild that you believe that.
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  #5538  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 4:51 PM
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So we now have the Mass Media's verdict on the question of wearing masks outdoors (which I have already said I have largely stopped doing while continuing to wear them always indoors when not at home):

Quote:
A mask outdoors?
On the issue of outdoor mask wearing, it helps to review a basic fact: There are few if any documented cases of brief outdoor interactions leading to Covid transmission. If you’re passing other people on a sidewalk or sitting near them on a park bench, the exposure of exhaled particles appears to be too small to lead to infection.

“Viral particles quickly disperse in outdoor air, and the risk of inhaling aerosolized virus from a jogger or passers-by are negligible,” my colleague Tara Parker-Pope writes, citing an interview she did with Linsey Marr of Virginia Tech. As Dr. Muge Cevik, an infectious-disease expert at the University of St. Andrews, says, outdoors is “not where the infection and transmission occurs.”

Still, why not try to eliminate even a minuscule potential risk and tell people to wear a mask at all times? Because that’s not an effective way to reduce overall risk. “I think the guidelines should be based on science and practicality,” Marr said. “People only have so much bandwidth to think about precautions.”

There are still important precautions to take, ones that are much more based in science than universal mask wearing. Unvaccinated people should wear masks when in close conversation with people outside their family — even outdoors — and should almost always wear a mask when indoors and not at home. Vaccinated people should continue to wear a mask in many indoor situations, to help contribute to a culture of mask wearing. It’s the decent thing to do when more than half of Americans still are not vaccinated.
NY Times Morning newsletter

Now certain formers, for whom "the decent thing" means nothing, can chime in.
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  #5539  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 5:04 PM
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Vaccinated people should continue to wear a mask in many indoor situations, to help contribute to a culture of mask wearing
Eh...no. Vaccinated people should wear them indoors because most places still require them and thus we should respect these rules as long as they are in place but no way should we facilitate this little social engineering game of cultural acceptance. They are a necessity for the time being and that's all they are.
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  #5540  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 5:28 PM
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Eh...no. Vaccinated people should wear them indoors because most places still require them and thus we should respect these rules as long as they are in place but no way should we facilitate this little social engineering game of cultural acceptance. They are a necessity for the time being and that's all they are.
Exactly.


Hell, even Slate came out with an article two days ago showing the chances of getting Covid outside are basically zero. No one should wear a mask outside. I understand, people still will. I do when its cold.My gf sometimes keeps hers on IN THE CAR because she doesn't want to keep taking it off and putting it on smearing her makeup (eh). But many will continue to wear their masks outside for virtue signaling. We all know this. It's silly.


I'll wear my mask indoors because as Jmac said, I am not an asshole and will follow the rules of wherever I am at.

But I refuse to wear my mask outdoors because the science is and has been clear on this since at least June. And now that I'm vaccinated my chances of having Covid, being asymptomatic, and then giving you Covid from a 1-second walk by is INSANELY low, like getting hit by lightning twice in a day low. I won't be a sheep to some stupid game being played.


In any case, it appears within a month anyone who wants want will have at least one shot, which gives you around 80% protection, so all of these theater should be ending soon.
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