HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 12:26 AM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is online now
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 38,519
I pay $7,000 for one house and $4,000 for our other and they're not exactly million dollar homes and the deductibles are high. This year is the first claim my wife and I ever filed. Yes, Houston is high risk but very few people could afford premiums the way rates are going.
__________________
Sprawling on the fringes of the city in geometric order, an insulated border in-between the bright lights and the far, unlit unknown. (Neil Peart)

Last edited by JManc; Jul 10, 2024 at 12:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:43 AM
Velvet_Highground Velvet_Highground is offline
Doc Love 3.0
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Metropolitan Detroit
Posts: 413
I suppose I need to preface with the fact that Houston is one of the most hurricane vulnerable cities in the country despite its city limits being inland. The whole reason Houston grew up where is did was the 1902 Galveston hurricane the deadliest in US history destroying the Manhattan of the South. Houston’s vulnerability is spelled out in its name the bayou city as the estuaries are vulnerable to both surge and flooding though not the wipe the slab clean surge on the barrier islands or direct coast.

An unusually bad cat 1 is a good way to describe the storm. Having been a cat 4 that made landfall and or previously interacted with terrain several times before the storm structure was still intact albeit greatly diminished. That along with the track through the Bay of Campeche an extremely warm body of water makes for easier reintensification along with allowing for a better system structure. The more organized the structure the means more developed feeder bands and inner and outer eyewall. Leading to a larger area being effected by strong winds in the most intense squalls.

Further more the northerly track brought the right front quadrant the most dangerous part of the system with the strongest and most prolonged winds into Houston. The angle of impact further exacerbated the flooding situation due to the local and regional geography pushing surge in the worst possible direction for water to continuously pile up. Hurricane Sandy while a warm core hybrid can be an analogous situation in terms of angle of impact, geography & prior high intensity leading to a severe cat 1. Though Sandy was a different animal there are parallels that can be drawn, at least in understanding how impacts don’t always correlate to intensity ratings.

Climate change and the sudden onset of a strong La Niña seems to be pro-Atlantic this time strangely in terms of effecting Hurricane development. The eastern pacific usually has a much more active hurricane season during normal La Niña the quick switch from El Niño seems to have thrown basic climate models into chaos. Hurricane Hillary was only able to get a chance to make a run at So Cal due to the extremely powerful La Niña of summer 2023. We’re in an insane situation flipping back and forth from La Niña in summer to El Niño in winter back to La Niña it’s completely breaking the most fundamental rules of known meteorology on a global scale.

The massive prolonged extreme western heatwave likely is a result of a lack of hurricane activity in the eastern pacific in a La Niña set up. It’s certainly delayed the monsoon though the kind of heatwave being experienced in the west right now is downright scary for its intensity and scope. With very few exceptions such as San Francisco city limits the entire area west of the a line up to the Wasatch Mountains is under excessive heat warnings including 100+ on the pacific coast in Northern California, above 100 in Portland and near 100 in Seattle with even the Olympic Peninsula in the high 80’s.

The East Pac is experiencing much warmer than usual water temperatures. What that means is anyone’s guess could have another bomb Hurricane like the cat 5 the devastated Acapulco with no warning, going from a storm to a cat 5 in 24 hours. Could have another Hurricane Hilary make a run at So Cal or the hurricane season could be quiet killing the monsoon and restarting the path to mega drought just as we are seeing an end to short term effects of the drought. That would likely lead to an epic fire season as the vegetation has had several good to record seasons of precipitation leading to explosion in brush growth.

Annoyingly there isn’t a color code to temps anymore (thanks Weather Channel & boss for runing my alternative site)
Deep dark reds are 90’s, Normal red are 80’s, Orange are 70’s yellow, are 60’s tan-grey are 50’s, violet-blue are 40’s, blue are 30’s, and light silvery blue is the freezing point and below. Hurricanes need ~78 degrees to form and maintain intensity.

(You can see heat from the land being blown over the very edge of the coast if you look carefully in the US Pacific throwing off the satellite readings & computer modeling)

https://www.wunderground.com/hurricane?index_region=ep

Interactive current US severe weather map
https://www.wunderground.com/wunderm...&surge=0&tor=0
__________________
Sixto Rodriguez - Cold Fact - Crucify your Mind
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KhMxmubp-5Q

Gil Scott Heron - We almost lost Detroit - 1966 Fermi 1
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cpNUqNe0U5g

Last edited by Velvet_Highground; Jul 10, 2024 at 3:02 AM. Reason: Map
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:44 AM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Yeah, this article was pretty interesting. Houston is a very high risk metro for insurance, and the rates paid are very low relative to risk.

There has to be some effort at insurance reflecting actual risk. It's madness to have a system where people living in low risk areas are cross-subsidizing people to live in high risk areas.

Even crazier, the insurance maps show the lowest risk areas are basically the slowest growth areas, and the highest risk areas are the highest growth areas. Complete madness. We're a very strange country.
Well because Steven Forbes said they're the best places to live.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:50 AM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Houston is high risk but very few people could afford premiums the way rates are going.
Oh well. Texas should get on it then, because I'm tired of subsidizing new roofs on every house in South Florida and along the Gulf Coast every year.

Meanwhile, I'm in a 'very low risk' county and my homeowners is only 30% lower than the typical policy in Harris County. My parents who live in the next county over have been in their house for 50 years and NEVER had a claim.

But let's keep subsidizing this nonsense.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 3:03 AM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is online now
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 38,519
That's a you problem. I pay a lot of income taxes some of which undoubtedly go to programs up in PA in addition to here. It's part of the federal system and we subsidize a lot of shit we don't like but don't act like you're paying for my roof.
__________________
Sprawling on the fringes of the city in geometric order, an insulated border in-between the bright lights and the far, unlit unknown. (Neil Peart)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 4:11 AM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is online now
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 6,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by benp View Post
Houston's big issue of the day is not the flooding, but the vulnerability of its electrical systems to loss and damage by its frequent storms. Power interruptions for many people occur often, sometimes for minutes other times for hours, during much of the year, and not just as a result of the largest storms. Today's discussions on Houston chat groups include arguing whether or not Houston has a "3rd world" level of electrical interruptions. Answers basically lean toward not being as bad as the worst 3rd world places, but certainly not a stable and consistent system. Generators, including permanent whole-home generators, are increasingly a common part of many Houston households, and even a selling point in some new housing.
It seems like Houston's largest (only?) electricity provider doesn't even really know where the outages are?
__________________
And here the air that I breathe isn't dead.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 4:13 AM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami
Posts: 4,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Northern Miami got flooded by a tropical storm 2 weeks ago. Im not sure why he's trying to act like theyre ok there.
And Fort Lauderdale was flooded last year by a rain storm. Bad. Even the airport was out. If South FL gets hit by a real hurricane, I dunno.
Sounds like its the same damn problem. Theyve just been luckier.
South Florida floods are over very quickly though, usually an hour or so after the rain stops. (For now at least) the water just soaks into the very porous ground very quickly. Floods are common in areas that are largely completely paved over (Downtown) because the water can't soak in. And floods happen while it is still raining when the rain falls at a rate that exceeds the ability of the ground to soak in it. That Ft. Lauderdale flood happened when they got 40 inches of rain in 1 day.
Obviously once sea level rises a few feet then all bets will be off.

Here is a cool time-lapse of Hurricane Irma flooding western sections of Miami Beach. At 38 seconds you can see the sea wall being breached and water start pouring inland. Night falls and when the sun rises...there isn't even a puddle on the ground. All the water soaked into the ground.

Video Link
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 5:32 AM
bobdreamz's Avatar
bobdreamz bobdreamz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Miami/Orlando, FL.
Posts: 8,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
Wait a minute: You're from FLORIDA and you think the intensity of wind has anything to do with the amount of rain? Really?

Google "Tropical Storm Allison."
I'll help you out: Hardly any wind... FORTY inches of rain.

ETA - Also... When laying blame, consider the coastal prairie wetlands west of the city ...areas that are upstream from Houston, areas the city has no control over... that have been covered over with suburbs over the past twenty years. There are neighborhoods in the city which never flooded before that now regularly flood during extreme rain events.

And you can thank sensationalist reporting for making it seem "like most of the city" is under water. Most of it is not under water. Not by a long shot.
I almost Regret starting this thread because of responses like this.

I'm a City lover and the last thing I want to do is trash them but this isn't the first time Houston has been to the Hurricane Rodeo.

Houston is a very important American city but why does this keep happening and seem so Unprepared?

Video Link


Video Link
__________________
Miami : 62 Skyscrapers over 500+ Ft.|150+ Meters | 18 Under Construction.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 11:31 AM
sentinel's Avatar
sentinel sentinel is online now
Plenary pleasures.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Monterey CA
Posts: 4,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
Oh for cripes sake. Why is it so hard for people to understand that the cities in Texas are NOT represented by the state government?

On April 22, 2020, in honor of the 50th anniversary of Earth Day, Mayor Sylvester Turner and the City of Houston’s Office of Sustainability released the Houston Climate Action Plan, a science-based, community-driven strategy for the City of Houston to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, meet the Paris Agreement goal of carbon neutrality by 2050, and lead a global energy transition.

http://greenhoustontx.gov/climateact...nt%20goal%20of
Hey, reactionary dude, imma need you to chillax because nowhere did I specifically state Texans/Houstonians deny climate change…you’re the one making that inference.
__________________
Don't be shy. Step into the light.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 1:20 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I pay $7,000 for one house and $4,000 for our other and they're not exactly million dollar homes and the deductibles are high. This year is the first claim my wife and I ever filed. Yes, Houston is high risk but very few people could afford premiums the way rates are going.
Holy shit! American home insurance premiums are high! I pay under CAD 800/year to insure my home, which is worth more than CAD 1 million (I live in super expensive Toronto) and has a finished basement. I only have a 1,000 dollar (Canadian, again) deductible and I get full replacement costs and $1 million in personal liability.

Granted, I don't live in a very disaster prone area, and most of the cost of inflated Canadian real estate is in the land and not the structure but, still, I'm paying less than half as much as someone in Rochester - a city with a similar risk profile, where homes cost maybe 1/3 as much and where construction labor is probably not as hard to come by.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 1:31 PM
Crawford Crawford is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 31,508
I assume replacement cost in Rochester is likely higher. Higher labor costs, more regs, union rules, etc. Plus NYS is very litigation-friendly.

But those rates you pay in Toronto still seem extremely low. My brother has a home in suburban Detroit which would be worth more than 1 million CAD, and he pays more than twice what you pay. Maybe it's just bc Canada is much less litigious.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:10 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
Hey, reactionary dude, imma need you to chillax because nowhere did I specifically state Texans/Houstonians deny climate change…you’re the one making that inference.
Sorry. I see it constantly on other sites. Seriously, comments from supposedly human adults that range from "no place deserves it more" to "this is divine punishment for the abortion ban" to "Abbott should just deny the existence of insert latest weather disaster like he denies climate change" or my favorite, "they deserve it because they all voted for Abbott or Cruz."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:14 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
But those rates you pay in Toronto still seem extremely low... Maybe it's just bc Canada is much less litigious.
Or maybe Canadian regulatory policies favor humans over corporations.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:38 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdreamz View Post
I almost Regret starting this thread because of responses like this.

I'm a City lover and the last thing I want to do is trash them but this isn't the first time Houston has been to the Hurricane Rodeo.

Houston is a very important American city but why does this keep happening and seem so Unprepared?
The short answer is Houston gets all the runoff from suburbs that didn't even exist 10, 20 years ago. Houston has no control over those suburbs, and is, in fact, grossly underrepresented in the association of regional governments. This video explains that somewhat:

Video Link


The proposition did, in fact, pass.

But seriously, that question asking why there was flooding when Beryl was barely a hurricane is just unbelievable to me coming from someone in Florida, of all places.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:39 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 22,188
Toronto has pro active policies building housing in flood prone areas stemming from a hurricane in 1954. Canada is also a terrible place to sue someone.

Just my inexpert opinion. The last thing Houston should be encouraging is infilling single family lots with ultra high coverage housing if drainage is an issue.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:43 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Toronto has pro active policies building housing in flood prone areas stemming from a hurricane in 1954. Canada is also a terrible place to sue someone.
A hurricane struck Toronto?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:50 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
A hurricane struck Toronto?
Hazel. 1954.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:58 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
A hurricane struck Toronto?
Yeah, the tail remnants of Hurricane Hazel, a Category 4 hurricane that originated south of the Carolinas, struck Toronto in 1954. By the time it got to Toronto it was just a huge downpour, but it hit a vulnerably, low lying residential neighbourhood located roughly here, and killed 81 people.

Generally, I think Canada is under-infrastructured compared to the US, but when it comes to flood protection - particularly in Ontario - I think we take this very seriously and spend big bucks. Not too far from me, they're spending $200 million to build a gigantic storm sewer bypass for a pre-war neighbourhood that was built in a low-lying valley (this kind of development hasn't been allowed since 1954). They brought in tunnel boring machines and built gigantic cisterns for holding storm water runoff every couple of blocks. On the east end, there was an even bigger project with a similar scope. For all of Toronto's faults, I'd say we're probably one of the more resilient cities of our size when it comes to climate change.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 2:58 PM
Steely Dan's Avatar
Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
devout Pizzatarian
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lincoln Square, Chicago
Posts: 30,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
Hazel. 1954.
Toronto is like 350 miles inland from the coast.

Surely the storm was no longer an actual hurricane by the time it got up to Toronto, right?


EDIT: thanks for the clarification, hipster duck
__________________
"Missing middle" housing can be a great middle ground for many middle class families.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2024, 3:03 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Just my inexpert opinion. The last thing Houston should be encouraging is infilling single family lots with ultra high coverage housing if drainage is an issue.
Most of the worst flooding consistently happens upstream of those densifying development areas in the inner city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:15 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.