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  #1  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 4:16 AM
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PHILADELPHIA | 222 Walnut Street | 252 FT | 20 FLOORS

"A residential skyscraper? In my neighborhood of Society Hill! GASP! Won't someone think of my views?"

Title: 222 Walnut Street
Project: Residential
Architect: Cecil Baker
Developer: 230 Walnut St, LLC
Location: 222 Walnut St
Neighborhood: Society Hill
District: Old City
Floors: 20 Floors (19 residential, one mechanical)
Height: 252 Ft





Submission to Historical Council:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20190618...r57Hcm4oiMlH8U
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Last edited by summersm343; Oct 19, 2020 at 8:12 PM.
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 4:21 AM
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More luxury condos east of Broad. Build it!!!
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 1:14 PM
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Here is the application, and the Historical Commission recommends denial:

https://www.phila.gov/media/20190618...5ZVPn2QX-Ekk1o

I much preferred Scannapieco's proposal taking down the Ritz and leaving the historic buildings unaltered. I'm also very concerned with the quality of these towers. I like Astoban generally, but the facade at 2110 Walnut is the worst I've seen in new construction without metal bays. Flimsy paneling that literally looks nailed to the underbuilding material with many visible, external nails.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/21...7!4d-75.176442

I was sure it was some kind of preparation for something else to go on top of it when it first started going up, but it seems to be the final product. I hope the neighborhood association gets involved here. Not to kill the tower, but to demand better design as was done with the Laurel and the Harper.
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2019, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Here is the application, and the Historical Commission recommends denial:

https://www.phila.gov/media/20190618...5ZVPn2QX-Ekk1o

I much preferred Scannapieco's proposal taking down the Ritz and leaving the historic buildings unaltered. I'm also very concerned with the quality of these towers. I like Astoban generally, but the facade at 2110 Walnut is the worst I've seen in new construction without metal bays. Flimsy paneling that literally looks nailed to the underbuilding material with many visible, external nails.
The Ritz wouldn't move. The wouldn't sell. This was Scannapieco's alternate plan as well... to put the tower here.

Astoban didn't change the location of the tower. They just purchase the site and plans from Scannapieco.

Scannapieco is looking at another site in the area now instead, because he found the near neighbors (Society Hill towers in particular) unbearable to deal with.
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2019, 3:31 AM
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Looks like the Historical Commission doesn't quite like this one, but their word isn't binding:


‘Overbuild’ projects planned to turn historic Freeman’s auction house and Nelson Building into condos


Quote:
Application documents filed on the commission’s website by Cecil Baker & Partners architects identify the buildings’ owners as units of Astoban Investments LLC, suggesting that the firm has the properties under contract, since there is yet no record of them having changed hands. The Nelson Building previously had been under contract to be acquired by the Bucks County-based developer Tom Scannapieco.

Baker’s firm worked with Astoban on a similar “overbuild” project involving a historic property on the 2100 block of Walnut Street.

The three-story Nelson property, which is listed on the historic register, is made up of three adjacent buildings constructed between the mid-1850s and the mid-1950s behind a common facade. Plans for the property call for the demolition of the rear sections of the older of the two buildings at 222-24 and 226 Walnut St. to make room for a 19-story tower, with the newer section being converted into a “multilevel townhouse unit,” for a total of 18 dwelling units.

The staff of the Historical Commission recommended that the project be denied, saying that the “massing, size, scale, proportions, and height of the proposed tower with overbuild are not compatible with the complex of buildings or historic district.”
https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20190619.html
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  #6  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2019, 8:41 PM
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19-story overlay project planned behind historic Society Hill buildings
Quote:
A new plan for a residential tower in Society Hill would include the partial demolition of two historic Walnut Street structures.

The proposal, which is going in front of the Historical Commission’ architecture committee for review next week, focuses on a set of three connected historic buildings between 222 and 230 Walnut Street, which were built between 1856 and 1950 and have most recently been used as the offices of Nelson Architects.

It includes demolishing the southern portion of two of the buildings in order to construct a 19-story tower with 18 residences total, according to plans published on the Historical Comission’s website. The existing structure, which faces Walnut Street and will be left in tact, would be renovated to include entrances and amenity space as well as additional townhouse units. The project is being headed up by 230 Walnut Development and Philly-based Cecil Baker & Partners.

Plans for the tower include one 5,000-square-foot unit per floor between floors three and 16, and a single 8,000-square-foot penthouse on the 17th and 18th floors. Also included in the plans are a garden between the development and Thomas Paine Place, underground parking, and a rooftop terrace.

The Historical Commission Staff is recommending that the architecture committee deny the project, saying that the massing and size of the tower isn’t compatible with surrounding buildings in the historic Society Hill district. They added that an addition extending just a few stories above the height of the existing building would work, but that a 19-story tower doesn’t.


https://philly.curbed.com/2019/6/20/...-hill-historic


I don't understand the commission's logic here. There are plenty of sizable buildings around. I'm pretty sure the Society Hill Towers are taller than this. Why wouldn't it fit into the surroundings?
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  #7  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2019, 3:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
The Ritz wouldn't move. The wouldn't sell. This was Scannapieco's alternate plan as well... to put the tower here.

Astoban didn't change the location of the tower. They just purchase the site and plans from Scannapieco.

Scannapieco is looking at another site in the area now instead, because he found the near neighbors (Society Hill towers in particular) unbearable to deal with.
Are you sure they bought/own the Nelson Building? Like the 1810 Chestnut one, this application is designated as "Review in Concept"/an "in concept application", and Astoban has not (at this time,anyway) purchased all 3 of the buildings that are needed for the Chestnut project.
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2019, 3:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
Looks like the Historical Commission doesn't quite like this one, but their word isn't binding:


‘Overbuild’ projects planned to turn historic Freeman’s auction house and Nelson Building into condos




https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20190619.html
Not binding in what sense for a project that will incorporate a historically designated building? Who can overrule it outside a judicial appeal? What is the process? Or do you mean the staff recommendation is not binding? That is true. This will be considered at the Architectural Committee meeting on June 25, and by the full Historical Commission in July. Still seems to be an in-concept application, and I'm not sure what the ownership status by Astoban is on this one. But he next month or so will definitely inform its decisions and path.
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Not binding in what sense for a project that will incorporate a historically designated building? Who can overrule it outside a judicial appeal? What is the process? Or do you mean the staff recommendation is not binding? That is true. This will be considered at the Architectural Committee meeting on June 25, and by the full Historical Commission in July. Still seems to be an in-concept application, and I'm not sure what the ownership status by Astoban is on this one. But he next month or so will definitely inform its decisions and path.
Correct, I meant the latter.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 2:16 AM
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This house next door is sale for $12,000,000. https://www.phillymag.com/property/2...bcBSsYmnKaDg-o That is actually a $5MM drop from the last listing, but it is still way overpriced. Considering that one of two townhomes left remaining directly on Rittenhouse Square Park is listed for under $6MM, it is still way overpriced for a single family home of this size. The Cerrones must be out of their mind to think they will sell it for anything close to that. On the other hand, it is perfect for Astoban or another developer to purchase the lot to build a tower.

If I had to choose between an overbuild of the Nelson Building or a tower build on this plot of land, I'd choose this plot in a heartbeat even if it meant total demolition of this house.
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 2:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
This house next door is sale for $12,000,000. https://www.phillymag.com/property/2...bcBSsYmnKaDg-o That is actually a $5MM drop from the last listing, but it is still way overpriced. Considering that one of two townhomes left remaining directly on Rittenhouse Square Park is listed for under $6MM, it is still way overpriced for a single family home of this size. The Cerrones must be out of their mind to think they will sell it for anything close to that. On the other hand, it is perfect for Astoban or another developer to purchase the lot to build a tower.

If I had to choose between an overbuild of the Nelson Building or a tower build on this plot of land, I'd choose this plot in a heartbeat even if it meant total demolition of this house.
That house is one of the strangest in the city. The 5 car (!!!!) garage in the back is bonkers. I think you're right on the money that they're not listing that house with the thought that someone is going to buy it and move in. Definitely being sold as a development opportunity.

Even though a house right on Rittenhouse is far more desirable, the property this house is on is huge, it has a front yard (who has one of those in Philly?) a giant courtyard in the back and that enormous garage. It's probably 5 times the size of the rittenhouse lot conservatively. I think you could absolutely put a tower there.

And as unique as the home is, it's kind of a gaudy waste of space. Wouldn't mind at all if it was torn down. Not at all historic either.
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 12:25 PM
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That house is one of the strangest in the city. The 5 car (!!!!) garage in the back is bonkers. I think you're right on the money that they're not listing that house with the thought that someone is going to buy it and move in. Definitely being sold as a development opportunity.

Even though a house right on Rittenhouse is far more desirable, the property this house is on is huge, it has a front yard (who has one of those in Philly?) a giant courtyard in the back and that enormous garage. It's probably 5 times the size of the rittenhouse lot conservatively. I think you could absolutely put a tower there.

And as unique as the home is, it's kind of a gaudy waste of space. Wouldn't mind at all if it was torn down. Not at all historic either.
Yeah, the outdoor space is amazing. Even so, I just don't think a house of this size in Philly is likely to sell for near $12MM. It's not impossible, but a true unicorn buyer would have to come along. Bring on the tower here instead!
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
That house is one of the strangest in the city...

...And as unique as the home is, it's kind of a gaudy waste of space. Wouldn't mind at all if it was torn down. Not at all historic either.
It would take a down-to-the-studs remodel to get that house livable.
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 2:01 PM
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double post.....
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 2:06 PM
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I walk past it often. Built like a fortress. 5 car garage is unheard of in the city. Amazing that there is only 2 bedrooms in the entire Mansion.
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 2:23 PM
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I walk past it often. Built like a fortress. 5 car garage is unheard of in the city. Amazing that there is only 2 bedrooms in the entire Mansion.
Truth. I guess their kids are in the city, but we will still occasionally stay at my parents even though nearby, and their grandkids do too. Odd that a house of this size only has 1 guest room. More generally, I agree with Reddog that this house needs a lot of work to reconfigure it into a desirable living space for the way most would want to live. High quality design and materials, but awkward. Tower, please!
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 2:43 PM
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I remember the house being built, and from the window arrangements and dimensions, I thought that the owners must not be big art collectors. From the pics in the link jsbrook provided, my impression was right. Might collect cars though...
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 2:47 PM
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Architecture Committee of the Historical Commission rejected the in-concept proposal. The head of the INHP was there and hammered it for its proximity to the Merchant's Exchange Building, bought up the old "shadows, NOOO!" excuse. Society Hill Towers Condo Assn was unsurprisingly against it, as was the Society Hill Civic.

In the end, the committee rejected it on logical grounds in that the plan violates Standard 9 of the Dept of the Interior's standards for the treatment of historic properties, but right after the decision was made, one of the committee members threw in a "and it's too tall for the area!!" just to talk trash.
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaamazarite View Post
Architecture Committee of the Historical Commission rejected the in-concept proposal. The head of the INHP was there and hammered it for its proximity to the Merchant's Exchange Building, bought up the old "shadows, NOOO!" excuse. Society Hill Towers Condo Assn was unsurprisingly against it, as was the Society Hill Civic.

In the end, the committee rejected it on logical grounds in that the plan violates Standard 9 of the Dept of the Interior's standards for the treatment of historic properties, but right after the decision was made, one of the committee members threw in a "and it's too tall for the area!!" just to talk trash.
Good. It didn't meet Standard 9 as far as I am considered, looked junky from the very basic renders, and the cladding on 2110 Walnut is atrocious. But I would still love to see a tower of quality design replace the Cerrone's house. Given that, I don't like the Merchant's exchange proximity argument from the INHP head,. This indicates an uphill battle for a tower on a different plot in this area. Who cares? Just make sure the design is strong. The Merchant's Exchange building will still be visible from nearly every angle it currently is visible from even if a tower goes up on the Cerrones's lot. There are towers right around Independence Hall. I don't get it...
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2019, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Good. It didn't meet Standard 9 as far as I am considered, looked junky from the very basic renders, and the cladding on 2110 Walnut is atrocious. But I would still love to see a tower of quality design replace the Cerrone's house. Given that, I don't like the Merchant's exchange proximity argument from the INHP head,. This indicates an uphill battle for a tower on a different plot in this area. Who cares? Just make sure the design is strong. The Merchant's Exchange building will still be visible from nearly every angle it currently is visible from even if a tower goes up on the Cerrones's lot. There are towers right around Independence Hall. I don't get it...
They may not like it if a tower replaced that bizzare mansion but the mansion isn't historically protected so this review process that sunk the tower at this location would be irrelevant no? Or does it still have to go through this review process simply by being located in society hill?
     
     
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