City Murder Rates

[chiphile]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

so does this just burn out on its own eventually?

This is what people think will happen but it won't, because the bastard production rate far exceeds the gang on gang hit rate. Each of these guys has at least 2 kids (two future murderers) by two different women by age 21. If they live until 30, it's usually 3 or 4, so even if one gets killed, he has left at least 2-3 more to replace him. It's a virus.

The political reality makes it worse. In describing the situation as I have described above, you get called racist and the conversation stops. The fact is, a barbaric and depraved culture has taken root, and a government solution to a barbaric, terrorist culture is going to be draconian and won't survive the political process (i.e. an effective gov't solution isn't possible politically).

[James Bond Agent 007]

^
Here a couple weeks ago I linked a study suggesting the problem has been going on for at least a century, which would support your claim that the thug reproduction rate exceeds the rate at which they kill themselves. Maybe after another century or so it'll finally burn itself out?

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by chiphile

This is what people think will happen but it won't, because the bastard production rate far exceeds the gang on gang hit rate. Each of these guys has at least 2 kids (two future murderers) by two different women by age 21. If they live until 30, it's usually 3 or 4, so even if one gets killed, he has left at least 2-3 more to replace him. It's a virus.

The political reality makes it worse. In describing the situation as I have described above, you get called racist and the conversation stops. The fact is, a barbaric and depraved culture has taken root, and a government solution to a barbaric, terrorist culture is going to be draconian on won't survive the political process.

It's ironic how someone can post about Trump being "Hitler-Lite" a little over a month ago, then make a post just like this. Your post is far worse than anything Trump has said and you're almost suggesting a genocide.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

It's ironic how someone can post about Trump being "Hitler-Lite" a little over a month ago, then make a post just like this. Your post is far worse than anything Trump has said and you're almost suggesting a genocide.

It's the truth

[mt_climber13]

Over 40 people shot in Chicago over Christmas weekend, no doubt most or all of these were gang related where taking out innocent family members of worthless POS gang members during celebratory events is done for retaliation for "disrespect." Imagine if 40 people were gunned down on Christmas by Muslim extremists? The response would be quick and to the point. But American made terrorism is just a normal part of life in the USA.

[mrnyc]

i know chicago had a horrible holiday weekend of gun violence, but this is an important quote from a head cop: "Ninety percent of those fatally wounded had gang affiliations, criminal histories and were pre-identified by the department's strategic subject algorithm as being a potential suspect or victim of gun violence."

[dc_denizen]

A draconian response on the part of the government would involve suspension of civil liberties, national guard on the streets, extensive stop and frisk, search without a warrant for illegal firearms, curfews and the like. I personally think this might be an effective strategy, and one that Obama should have initiated (would be politically difficult under a republican president, never mind trump)

Of course, you will be vilified on this forum for suggesting this pretty moderate response to war zone conditions.

Otherwise in the very long term, gentrification helps to solve or at least relocate the problem (pushing the murderers to other smaller cheaper cities).

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

A draconian response on the part of the government would involve suspension of civil liberties, national guard on the streets, extensive stop and frisk, search without a warrant for illegal firearms, curfews and the like. I personally think this might be an effective strategy, and one that Obama should have initiated (would be politically difficult under a republican president, never mind trump)

Of course, you will be vilified on this forum for suggesting this pretty moderate response to war zone conditions.

Otherwise in the very long term, gentrification helps to solve or at least relocate the problem (pushing the murderers to other smaller cheaper cities).

Agreed on all counts.

Also, if such draconian measures were taken you'd be sure to see Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on the streets decrying the racist "occupation" of their neighborhoods. Because, after all, I guess it's better to live in gang occupied territory?

[emathias]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

A draconian response on the part of the government would involve suspension of civil liberties, national guard on the streets, extensive stop and frisk, search without a warrant for illegal firearms, curfews and the like. I personally think this might be an effective strategy, and one that Obama should have initiated (would be politically difficult under a republican president, never mind trump)
...

I think it'd be *more* likely under a Republican-controlled government. After all the stop-and-frisk in New York happened under a Republican mayor.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by wakamesalad

Over 40 people shot in Chicago over Christmas weekend, no doubt most or all of these were gang related where taking out innocent family members of worthless POS gang members during celebratory events is done for retaliation for "disrespect." Imagine if 40 people were gunned down on Christmas by Muslim extremists? The response would be quick and to the point. But American made terrorism is just a normal part of life in the USA.

I will never understand this massive contradiction among Americans.

One person gets murdered by a Muslim somewhere = massive panic, ban Muslims, close the borders and attack anything remotely Middle Eastern (while simultaneously worshiping a swarthy Palestinian radical named Jesus).

But tens of thousands of Americans get murdered annually, by other Americans = no problem whatsoever. In fact we need more guns and murders. Praise Jesus and pass the ammunition!

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by emathias

I think it'd be *more* likely under a Republican-controlled government. After all the stop-and-frisk in New York happened under a Republican mayor.

Stop and frisk happened under Bloomberg, who was officially Republican, but not really.

Since stop and frisk ended, overall crime, including murder rate, has dropped.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

It's ironic how someone can post about Trump being "Hitler-Lite" a little over a month ago, then make a post just like this. Your post is far worse than anything Trump has said and you're almost suggesting a genocide.

Noticed this too. Besides being wildly inaccurate (birth rates among the black underclass have plummeted) the idea that population control is the key to reducing violence is insane.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Stop and frisk happened under Bloomberg, who was officially Republican, but not really.

Since stop and frisk ended, overall crime, including murder rate, has dropped.

Bloomberg didn't start stop-and-frisk and in actuality forms of it have existed for a long time, but it was Giuliani with Bratton who really expanded it in NYC along with the "broken windows" policies. Rudy is Republican both officially and "really." Bloomberg just caught more heat for it because by the time he came into office crime had dropped enough for people to stop thinking about security and starting thinking about rights again. While it's controversial whether stop-and-frisk was actually a significant cause in the NYC drop in crime, it did accompany the drop in crime which occurred during Giuliani's tenure.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by emathias

While it's controversial whether stop-and-frisk was actually a significant cause in the NYC drop in crime, it did accompany the drop in crime which occurred during Giuliani's tenure.

Yes, there is controversy around stop-and-frisk, but it peaked under Bloomberg, and overall crime has dropped since.

Stop-and-frisk wasn't heavily used in Giuliani's initial years, when crime first plummeted. I don't think many criminologists will argue it was key to NYC's crime drops.

[emathias]

What bothers me almost as much as the raw numbers of murders in Chicago is the horrifyingly small percentage of clearing in homicide cases here. Only around a quarter of all murders are solved. I mean even if we made a law that any gun-related murder was automatic life in prison it wouldn't make much impact when only a quarter of murders are even solved.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...=.bae4a7b0b4f3

[hunser]

Originally Posted by emathias

What bothers me almost as much as the raw numbers of murders in Chicago is the horrifyingly small percentage of clearing in homicide cases here. Only around a quarter of all murders are solved. I mean even if we made a law that any gun-related murder was automatic life in prison it wouldn't make much impact when only a quarter of murders are even solved.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...=.bae4a7b0b4f3

I'm no expert but I guess it has to do with the fact that gang members usually don't rat out? It's like a small, parallel universe in those hoods where retaliation has become some kind of "daily routine".

Btw if anyone is wondering as to why I'm interested in Chicago lately: I have a cousin (female, 15) who is now an exchange student in Chicago (for 1 year). That's why I'm worried. I told her to choose NYC, but she wouldn't listen. Even my GF tried to convince her, but no luck. Her father is originally from NYC, which makes it even more ridiculous. I just hope she stays safe with her host family ...

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by wakamesalad

Over 40 people shot in Chicago over Christmas weekend, no doubt most or all of these were gang related where taking out innocent family members of worthless POS gang members during celebratory events is done for retaliation for "disrespect." Imagine if 40 people were gunned down on Christmas by Muslim extremists? The response would be quick and to the point. But American made terrorism is just a normal part of life in the USA.

Because it only affects lower class blacks. That's why. Most Americans live in their single family homes in the safe suburbs so they don't really have to worry about what happens in South Chicago. They know it's just gang members targetting each other or their families.

Islamic or even Domestic Terorrism however can happen anywhere and it doesn't really discriminate or concentrate in one area of the city so it's not surprising more Americans care about Islamic terrorism. Chicago gang members aren't using trucks to plow into innocent people in a Christmas Market or going to movie threatres or gay clubs and shooting up everyone. They're just targetting each other so it's not high on the list.

[proghousehead]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Because it only affects lower class blacks. That's why. Most Americans live in their single family homes in the safe suburbs so they don't really have to worry about what happens in South Chicago. They know it's just gang members targetting each other or their families.

Islamic or even Domestic Terorrism however can happen anywhere and it doesn't really discriminate or concentrate in one area of the city so it's not surprising more Americans care about Islamic terrorism. Chicago gang members aren't using trucks to plow into innocent people in a Christmas Market or going to movie threates or gay clubs and shooting up everyone. They're just targetting each other so it's not high on the list.

99% of the victims of Islamic terrorism are - wait for it - Muslim (most innocent). Quite similar to how 99% of the victims of gang violence are - wait for it - gang members.

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by hunser

I'm no expert but I guess it has to do with the fact that gang members usually don't rat out? It's like a small, parallel universe in those hoods where retaliation has become some kind of "daily routine".

Btw if anyone is wondering as to why I'm interested in Chicago lately: I have a cousin (female, 15) who is now an exchange student in Chicago (for 1 year). That's why I'm worried. I told her to choose NYC, but she wouldn't listen. Even my GF tried to convince her, but no luck. Her father is originally from NYC, which makes it even more ridiculous. I just hope she stays safe with her host family ...

I mean the majority of Chicago is going on business as usual, and in those parts it feels no different than years past when the homicide rate was far lower. So unless her host family is living in an exceedingly dangerous neighborhood, or she suddenly decides to start affiliating with a gang, she'll be fine.

Originally Posted by hunser

http://heyjackass.com/

Chicago Homicides as of now: 773. This is just insane, the city is approaching 800 ...

I'll also point out that HeyJackass is inaccurate. The actual homicide numbers are close to their number, but they count justified homicides, such as self-defense killings, when the CPD and the FBI do not.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by proghousehead

99% of the victims of Islamic terrorism are - wait for it - Muslim (most innocent). Quite similar to how 99% of the victims of gang violence are - wait for it - gang members.

We're talking about America though, not the Middle East. Most victims of Islamic Terrorism are not Muslim in America.