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  #4021  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 1:55 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Even though most people would call them both Chiac, that's actually a pretty different speech pattern from that of the teenaged girl.

These two people basically alternate between complete sentences in French (or about 90-95% anyway) and complete sentences entirely in English.

There are quite a few anglicisms in the French but not even close to as many as with the girl.

In her case, the English words are embedded in the French. Even though close to half her words are probably English (or English words morphed into French-sounding ones) the structure of her speech is very predominantly French.

It's quite likely that many people who speak like the girl think they're speaking ''only in French" when they're talking like that.
When you get people who persistently mix languages within sentences, as the girl did, I'm left wondering whether it doesn't indicate that they don't actually speak either language well. You used to hear kids speaking like that in Ottawa, although I can't say I've noticed it in recent years.
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  #4022  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
When you get people who persistently mix languages within sentences, as the girl did, I'm left wondering whether it doesn't indicate that they don't actually speak either language well. You used to hear kids speaking like that in Ottawa, although I can't say I've noticed it in recent years.
I think that is very true. Chiac speakers do not speak either language well, and instead have developed an interlingua or a patois which serves them very well for the most part. If forced, they can converse with either unilingual French or English speakers in a more pure form, but with a noticeable accent, and with hesitancy and delay.
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  #4023  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 2:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
When you get people who persistently mix languages within sentences, as the girl did, I'm left wondering whether it doesn't indicate that they don't actually speak either language well. You used to hear kids speaking like that in Ottawa, although I can't say I've noticed it in recent years.
That's definitely been what I've observed in my family and entourage.
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  #4024  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I think that is very true. Chiac speakers do not speak either language well, and instead have developed an interlingua or a patois which serves them very well for the most part. If forced, they can converse with either unilingual French or English speakers in a more pure form, but with a noticeable accent, and with hesitancy and delay.
Reading/writing took a huge hit too, sadly. There are decades of folks in Shediac/Cape Pele who can speak French without too many English words quite well in normal conversation but who would struggle to read "Quebec French" and would have an even harder time writing school French. In a lot of cases these folks spoke French in their home but were "educated" almost completely in English in the 50's-70's.
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  #4025  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by megadude View Post
His accent is unmistakably Canadian, but I hear stronger ones on TV or youtube from more blue collar or rural people, particularly out west of course. To hear that from a premier though is not something I'm accustomed to hearing.

If you're from the GTA, the Canadian accent will sound a little funny and unsophisticated. And vice versa. Although I've never asked someone from elsewhere what they think of the GTA accent, I'm sure a lot would say it sounds funny and unsophisticated. Though I don't think you're likely to hear many higher status people using it just like I don't think higher status people out west are going to sound like Scott Moe.
Doug Ford has a pretty obvious accent. But this guys version seems to be more influenced by the American upper Midwest. I can hear some ''Minnesoooooooota'' coming through in the Saskatchewan Premier's accent. You will never hear this in Ontario.
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  #4026  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 3:40 PM
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I have definitely heard some Midwest inflections in people from Saskatchewan, like "kee-yat" for "cat".
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  #4027  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarah89 View Post
Doug Ford has a pretty obvious accent. But this guys version seems to be more influenced by the American upper Midwest. I can hear some ''Minnesoooooooota'' coming through in the Saskatchewan Premier's accent. You will never hear this in Ontario.
DoFo certainly sounds more American than Canadian to my ears.
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  #4028  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 4:46 PM
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I agree that Dougie could pass as a non-descript American.

Growing up, he is what we would call a caker aka mangia cake (working class Canadian). If cakers have an accent then I would label him as that.

To my ears, he doesn't have a stereotypical Canadian accent or even a working class Ontario accent like that home improvement guy I posted in a video of above.

Cam Wooley, former OPP spokesperson turned media personality, looks pretty working class. He's from Toronto. This is how most "Canadian" guys of his generation from TO sound to me. Basically, very plain and not much of an accent.

And for the younger generation of "Canadian" guy from TO, Tom Wilson could serve as an example. Mind you, he has some of that hockey bro going on like "ya know" or "and uh...". Doesn't say after every sentence like a lot of hockey players, but it's there.

Marner is pretty Canadian and from Markham. Tavares is I think half Portuguese and from Sauga/Oakville. Marner has virtually no accent to me. Tavares has more of a hockey accent than anything. They are definitely not Toronto Mans but I'm sure they dropped the Canadian universal Hockey Bro lingo all the time growing up.

Video Link


Video Link


Video Link

Last edited by megadude; Jan 26, 2021 at 4:56 PM.
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  #4029  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 5:05 PM
Sarah89 Sarah89 is offline
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Doug Ford has a very strong Canadian accent. What are you guys talking about? if you can't hear his accent as being strong, then it's likely you speak with a larger helping of a Canadian accent than you can hear.

I remember when his brother had his scandal and there was that SNL parody. A Toronto journalist wrote an article around that time critiquing the SNL skit and the accent used and then claimed that Rob Ford in real life ''Pretty much has an America accent''. Not only was that completely untrue but it literally floors me how little awareness Canadians (especially in Ontario) have about our accent and what it sounds like to Americans.

We don't sound like ''Americans on TV'' or ''in California''. Every single Canadian actor for example has gone through accent modification. Every single one. Even Canadian reality stars (jillian harris of the Bachelorette being the most prominent example) have admitted being told to go to speech therapy to smooth ''the aboots''.
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  #4030  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 5:15 PM
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Doug Ford doesn't sound non-Canadian to my ear. Inasmuch as lots of people where he's from definitely sound like him. If that means that he has some intonations that sound American to some ears, then so be it.

His vowels do seem clipped in a Canadian way, for example he doesn't say "abaaaaaaht" like Americans do.
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  #4031  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megadude View Post
I agree that Dougie could pass as a non-descript American.

Growing up, he is what we would call a caker aka mangia cake (working class Canadian). If cakers have an accent then I would label him as that.

To my ears, he doesn't have a stereotypical Canadian accent or even a working class Ontario accent like that home improvement guy I posted in a video of above.

Cam Wooley, former OPP spokesperson turned media personality, looks pretty working class. He's from Toronto. This is how most "Canadian" guys of his generation from TO sound to me. Basically, very plain and not much of an accent.

And for the younger generation of "Canadian" guy from TO, Tom Wilson could serve as an example. Mind you, he has some of that hockey bro going on like "ya know" or "and uh...". Doesn't say after every sentence like a lot of hockey players, but it's there.

Marner is pretty Canadian and from Markham. Tavares is I think half Portuguese and from Sauga/Oakville. Marner has virtually no accent to me. Tavares has more of a hockey accent than anything. They are definitely not Toronto Mans but I'm sure they dropped the Canadian universal Hockey Bro lingo all the time growing up.

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Canadians say "hawk-ee".

Americans say "hack-ee".
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  #4032  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Vorkuta View Post
Reading/writing took a huge hit too, sadly. There are decades of folks in Shediac/Cape Pele who can speak French without too many English words quite well in normal conversation but who would struggle to read "Quebec French" and would have an even harder time writing school French. In a lot of cases these folks spoke French in their home but were "educated" almost completely in English in the 50's-70's.
Agree. I know lots of people like this. They're more comfortable reading and writing in English than in French.

Not sure which way things are trending with younger francophones outside Quebec, who are almost all being schooled in French at this point (at least K-12).

My gut tells me they're probably not as good as their elders in spoken French, but paradoxically might be slightly better at reading and writing it.
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  #4033  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 5:56 PM
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When I say Doug could pass as a non-descript American, I'm not saying he doesn't sound like a Canadian, I'm saying he could be either. A non-descript speaker from either country, as in fairly neutral for a working class upbringing dude. Now he sounds more Canadian to me, but could pass as American.

And I would never consider that a strong Canadian accent. To me that would be people out west. I consider his a caker accent. A sub category we placed on older people than us when discussing with my generation from the GTA.

That home improvement guy I posted earlier is also Canadian (or Ontario), but not strong IMO in terms of a "Canadian" accent.

And yes, some of this is based on your own ear and POV from how you grew up.
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  #4034  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by megadude View Post
When I say Doug could pass as a non-descript American, I'm not saying he doesn't sound like a Canadian, I'm saying he could be either. A non-descript speaker from either country, as in fairly neutral for a working class upbringing dude. Now he sounds more Canadian to me, but could pass as American.

And I would never consider that a strong Canadian accent. To me that would be people out west. I consider his a caker accent. A sub category we placed on older people than us when discussing with my generation from the GTA.

That home improvement guy I posted earlier is also Canadian (or Ontario), but not strong IMO in terms of a "Canadian" accent.

And yes, some of this is based on your own ear and POV from how you grew up.
See to me he sounds like a hoser.
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  #4035  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarah89 View Post
See to me he sounds like a hoser.
It depends on your perspective I guess. A hoser to me is something stronger than how Doug speaks. And hoser could have shifted over time. And hoser to me means an exaggeration of a Canadian accent. A "stereotypical" Canadian accent, not a "typical" Canadian accent.

I think we have two different definitions of hoser. Like growing up in the GTA, we never considered the older "Canadian" guys to be hosers. They were cakers to us. The Doug Ford types.

Skip to 0:26. That sounds fairly tame compared to what I consider a hoser.
Video Link


Classic hoser:
Video Link


Gavin McInnes from Ottawa, speaks pretty non-descript from the one time I've heard him. But here he is doing a hoser bit. Not that strong in his example, but noticeable is how I would describe it:
Video Link


An agriculture guy from Alberta from :08 to :30. Very Western Canadian accent to me. Not saying typical of all people out west but this one is "very" Western Canadian, not "standard" Western Canadian. This is the closest thing I could find to hoser for a recent video in the couple minutes I spent searching.
Video Link

Last edited by megadude; Jan 26, 2021 at 7:18 PM.
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  #4036  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by megadude View Post
When I say Doug could pass as a non-descript American, I'm not saying he doesn't sound like a Canadian, I'm saying he could be either. A non-descript speaker from either country...
There really isn't any such thing, though. This is just a Canadian pretension. Canadians working in entertainment or media in the US consciously adopt an American accent by dropping the Canadian raising ("out") and sharpening the short vowels (closer to "hayat" for hat), and it eventually becomes second nature.

The only notable exception I can think of is Norm Macdonald, at least in the later Youtube videos I've seen him in, where he says "out" like a Canadian.
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  #4037  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by megadude View Post
An agriculture guy from Alberta from :08 to :30. Very Western Canadian accent to me. Not saying typical of all people out west but this one is "very" Western Canadian, not "standard" Western Canadian. This is the closest thing I could find to hoser for a recent video in the couple minutes I spent searching.
Video Link
That's exactly what I heard in Winnipeg when I lived there in the 1980s.
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  #4038  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 11:36 PM
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The "real" Canadian accent which cannot be heard by Canadians:
https://youtu.be/kHRC2eK_GDs?t=124

Accents are an endless source of entertainment.

Norm Macdonald Shows Off His Scottish & French Accent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZosUnFExHJA
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  #4039  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 11:48 PM
Sarah89 Sarah89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
The "real" Canadian accent which cannot be heard by Canadians:
https://youtu.be/kHRC2eK_GDs?t=124

Accents are an endless source of entertainment.

Norm Macdonald Shows Off His Scottish & French Accent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZosUnFExHJA
It still boggles my mind how Canadians don't hear it. Complete oblivion.
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  #4040  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2021, 11:58 PM
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It still boggles my mind how Canadians don't hear it. Complete oblivion.
Sounds like Jay Baruchel and Norm MacDonald conspirrning against you.
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