[Halifax] The Mills (5484 Spring Garden) | 21 m | 7 fl | U/C

[planarchy]

Not sure if there is a thread for this but here’s the Mills Bros proposal - https://www.siteplanapprovalcase23107millshalifax.com/

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by planarchy

Not sure if there is a thread for this but here’s the Mills Bros proposal - https://www.siteplanapprovalcase23107millshalifax.com/

Hadn't seen it yet. Thanks for posting!

Hmmm.... The Mills-y Ann?

[kph06]

Looks similar to Alderney Gate. It looks like it might be using precast, which I think can be done well. I think the restrictions likely create the block like massing, but the mini Spring Garden Road pass though might be quite nice. I’m optimistic, I’m the end I think the street presence will be nice.

[Dmajackson]

Thanks "planarchy" for finding the details. I've created a thread for this proposal. This is definitely one of the most prominent redevelopment sites in Halifax right now.

I think this could turn out great. It will depend on the quality of the materials used but the scale and relation to Spring Garden look promising.

[someone123]

The floor plan is interesting. There are 2 medium-sized retail storefronts on SGR, 4 smaller units, and then 2 larger "restaurant units". Not sure if the restaurants have to be a restaurant or could become some other kind of business (is it more about things like fire suppression requirements and plumbing?). It's a bit hard to interpret the floor plants because different parts of the project are at different levels but some of the retail looks like it'll have taller ceilings. Not sure if they could put 2 levels in there. Maybe the corner retail spot could effectively be 2 floors with a "loft" type area built into the double-height volume.

The promenade is interesting. I'm curious how open it'll feel. It doesn't look like there is a large interior connected space or a path through the building to the promenade from SGR. It looks basically like 2 rows of shops with some opening on SGR, some opening onto the promenade, and just a service corridor in between.

I was hoping for some kind of artwork and ornamentation similar to Queen's Marque (something analogous to the Muntz panels), and maybe masonry instead of precast.

[Good Baklava]

Looks nice and clean, and avoids the mish-mash of colours seen on the Mary Ann. The quality of the precast will be a big factor here. I remember worrying that the Doyle would look horrible when the first panels went on, but it came together nicely in the end. I do question how inviting the walkway will be, but I’ll reserve that judgement for when I walk there myself.

[Jonovision]

It's not as grand looking as I was hoping but I don't mind it. I like how there are townhouse units that front onto the pedestrian promenade. I only wish that the entrance to the promenade had more of a presence on Queen Street. The architecture doesn't acknowledge it at all, it's just a hole cut out of the facade.

I was also hoping for a bit more drama on the corner of Queen and Spring. It would be nice if they took that angled cut that they have in the glazing on the retail levels and make it a deeper angle and cut it through that entire 6 storey massing on the corner. Would create some real drama and not lose a ton of floor space. I'm thinking something similar to the way The Pearl tapers and cuts its corner facing down towards Duke.

[atbw]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

It's not as grand looking as I was hoping but I don't mind it. I like how there are townhouse units that front onto the pedestrian promenade. I only wish that the entrance to the promenade had more of a presence on Queen Street. The architecture doesn't acknowledge it at all, it's just a hole cut out of the facade.

I was also hoping for a bit more drama on the corner of Queen and Spring. It would be nice if they took that angled cut that they have in the glazing on the retail levels and make it a deeper angle and cut it through that entire 6 storey massing on the corner. Would create some real drama and not lose a ton of floor space. I'm thinking something similar to the way The Pearl tapers and cuts its corner facing down towards Duke.

The promenade would have been a great opportunity to actually break up the building too. Wheras now it's very obvious there's just two buildings on a single block. Not that either looks terrible, but it's objectively less interesting.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

It's not as grand looking as I was hoping but I don't mind it. I like how there are townhouse units that front onto the pedestrian promenade. I only wish that the entrance to the promenade had more of a presence on Queen Street. The architecture doesn't acknowledge it at all, it's just a hole cut out of the facade.

I was also hoping for a bit more drama on the corner of Queen and Spring. It would be nice if they took that angled cut that they have in the glazing on the retail levels and make it a deeper angle and cut it through that entire 6 storey massing on the corner. Would create some real drama and not lose a ton of floor space. I'm thinking something similar to the way The Pearl tapers and cuts its corner facing down towards Duke.

Great points on both accounts, especially the angular cut on the corner of Queen and SGR. Something more dramatic and radical is needed to give it some presence there.

Agree on the promenade. As illustrated, I don't find it very inviting... in fact it looks like one of those places where I might hesitate to enter, thinking it's a private space rather than a public one... even on the Birmingham side, actually.

As usual, I am disappointed that another stone-clad bank building has disappeared (yeah, I know... shaddup Mark!). For my tastes, the building as illustrated is too monolithic, and would benefit from more variety and/or granular details (like a restored stone facade of an old bank building... though in this case it would proably take away from the design they've chosen). It's hard to disguise a 'block buster', and it doesn't appear they're even trying to... but I suppose the Doyle across the street has already set the bar for that (unfortunately).

So... IMHO it's a little "meh". Could be better, could be worse. Oh well... progress and all that.

[Querce]

I've never built a building before, but is it really so complicated or expensive to buy and install different colors and/or textures of cladding? Do you really have to have the exact same same along the entire block?

[Keith P.]

When I first saw the rendering posted elsewhere, I thought the person had mistakenly posted a rendering of the Doyle proposal instead as it looked rather similar at first glance. My mind's eye tells me this would look better done in grey tones with something resembling native granite cladding.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Great points on both accounts, especially the angular cut on the corner of Queen and SGR. Something more dramatic and radical is needed to give it some presence there.

Agree on the promenade. As illustrated, I don't find it very inviting... in fact it looks like one of those places where I might hesitate to enter, thinking it's a private space rather than a public one... even on the Birmingham side, actually.

As usual, I am disappointed that another stone-clad bank building has disappeared (yeah, I know... shaddup Mark!). For my tastes, the building as illustrated is too monolithic, and would benefit from more variety and/or granular details (like a restored stone facade of an old bank building... though in this case it would proably take away from the design they've chosen). It's hard to disguise a 'block buster', and it doesn't appear they're even trying to... but I suppose the Doyle across the street has already set the bar for that (unfortunately).

So... IMHO it's a little "meh". Could be better, could be worse. Oh well... progress and all that.

I really wish local builders and architects were more interest in breaking up facades, rather than creating block-spanning, homogeneous buildings. There’s nothing wrong with some large-footprint buildings, but certain areas are at risk of becoming monotonous. This block, and the Doyle block, were more interesting and inviting (and urban feeling) due to their eclectic facades. The stretch of Birmingham south of SGR was particular a nice stretch of unique and interesting structures that add variety and interest to an area.

This building is fine, essentially. But it would be better to have new development that in some way either incorporates elements of quality pre-existing buildings, or at least seeks to create more variety at street level.

[eastcoastal]

The overall massing looks decent to me - one location where I don't necessarily think a taller building would be better. I can't get a handle on it's "human-scaled detailing" yet, but am optimistic... I hope that the angled expressions I see for residential units facing the pedestrian connection can be felt once they are built.

I am NOT sold on the link that crosses the pedestrian connection though. I think it's only a storey or so high. The Nova Centre's hole... I mean Rogers Square (TM)... is taller and wider and I've yet to pass by and feel like it's a nice place to be. The developer's written description describes this pedestrian connection as a place for restaurants/retail/cafes to "spill out" and animate the passage, but I feel like the grade issues (check all the steps and ramps) and cave-like nature where the link crosses the pedestrian connection could jeopardize that intent.

[someone123]

Article: https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia...oad-100592779/


Source

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

Article: https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia...oad-100592779/

When he built the Doyle on Spring Garden Road, across from the Halifax Central Library, developer Danny Chedrawe said he was criticized for tearing down some older buildings and changing the look of one of the city’s most famed thoroughfares.

But it wasn’t long before people started to like the new building and the extra-wide sidewalks that Chedrawe, president of Westwood Developments, insisted upon.

“If there is one thing I think I should be given credit for, it’s the wide sidewalks,” he told me with a chuckle recently while discussing some of Westwood’s other projects.

Isn't he amazing?

I'm glad some people like it, but after all this time I still fail to see the Doyle as a wonderful result. It is a functional improvement over what was there, but IMHO definitely not an aesthetic improvement, and had no regard for the heritage elements of the buildings he demolished to put it there. But I'm happy he's proud of himself.

What was there.

[atbw]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Isn't he amazing?

I'm glad some people like it, but after all this time I still fail to see the Doyle as a wonderful result. It is a functional improvement over what was there, but IMHO definitely not an aesthetic improvement, and had no regard for the heritage elements of the buildings he demolished to put it there. But I'm happy he's proud of himself.

What was there.

The Doyle is better than some other block-spanning builds (Renaissance South should not fulfil its lifespan without substantial alteration imo) but I agree that its a loss of a lot of character. It's wild that one of the oldest and most complex areas of the city is being replaced by block-sized glass-clad buildings. What Gottingen, with its fine grain and mix of building sizes is becoming is infinitely more interesting than Spring Garden Road is shaping up to be.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by atbw

The Doyle is better than some other block-spanning builds (Renaissance South should not fulfil its lifespan without substantial alteration imo) but I agree that its a loss of a lot of character. It's wild that one of the oldest and most complex areas of the city is being replaced by block-sized glass-clad buildings. What Gottingen, with its fine grain and mix of building sizes is becoming is infinitely more interesting than Spring Garden Road is shaping up to be.

Interesting observation, re: Gottingen vs Spring Garden. Very true and I have to say I hadn't really noticed this trend before in quite this way. Thanks for pointing it out.

I perhaps harp a little too strongly about the Doyle - it's not horrible, but it feels like something that could have been built anywhere in the city, on any empty lot - like it could have looked at home on Young St. or the old Piercy's site on Robie... or maybe on Joe Howe Drive. Meanwhile, there was a fantastic opportunity to do something really special with the old Maritime Life bldg (the last example of Art Deco built in Halifax AFAIK), and those cool 19th century masonry units at the other end of the block. Just me, perhaps, but a creative architect could have incorporated all or part of those buildings into something that had a finer grained appearance, respected the heritage aspects of those buildings, and made a statement for one of the showcase streets in Halifax. But we got... that.

This "Mills" development is starting to feel a little like that - and now I'm not surprised since we have the same dude who is patting himself on the back for his 'accomplishment' with the Doyle, working on another 'gift to the city' right across the street. God help us.

Ah well, enough with the beating of dead horses and all that. I can be a little overdramatic at times...

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I perhaps harp a little too strongly about the Doyle - it's not horrible, but it feels like something that could have been built anywhere in the city, on any empty lot - like it could have looked at home on Young St. or the old Piercy's site on Robie... or maybe on Joe Howe Drive. Meanwhile, there was a fantastic opportunity to do something really special with the old Maritime Life bldg (the last example of Art Deco built in Halifax AFAIK), and those cool 19th century masonry units at the other end of the block. Just me, perhaps, but a creative architect could have incorporated all or part of those buildings into something that had a finer grained appearance, respected the heritage aspects of those buildings, and made a statement for one of the showcase streets in Halifax. But we got... that.

This "Mills" development is starting to feel a little like that - and now I'm not surprised since we have the same dude who is patting himself on the back for his 'accomplishment' with the Doyle, working on another 'gift to the city' right across the street. God help us.

I do really like the Doyle, but I don’t think it truly improved how people use the street. I particularly miss the combination of Rogues Roost overlooking the corner and being able to look down at Second Cup when walking by. The Doyle is clean-cut and sends the signal of spring garden becoming modernised, but doesn’t do much beyond that. Just another spatial fix in my opinion.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

I particularly miss the combination of Rogues Roost overlooking the corner and being able to look down at Second Cup when walking by

Yes! Yes.

That, in a shorthand way, very neatly says what was unique and cool about that block. Nicely put.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

I do really like the Doyle, but I don’t think it truly improved how people use the street. I particularly miss the combination of Rogues Roost overlooking the corner and being able to look down at Second Cup when walking by. The Doyle is clean-cut and sends the signal of spring garden becoming modernised, but doesn’t do much beyond that. Just another spatial fix in my opinion.

When walk by it, I just find it to be an entire block of generic same-ness that doesn't inspire me in any way other than that the shop signs are different from one end to the next.

If I stand back to see it, I find a rectangular structure broken up in the middle with the same rectangular structure on the other end. If you squint your eyes, it could be a 1970s municipal office building.

But I've said enough. I don't want to further water down discussion of The Mills. I'm hoping for a good result, but so far I'm underwhelmed...