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  #1381  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 4:44 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by MiEncanto View Post
The one on Taylor doesn’t serve anyone other than asu students. That is obvious.

All the complaints about a drive through are hollow. Should the McDonald’s be demo’d? The double drive through will reduce traffic congestion! You should be pleased it’s not a single lane. It won’t bring more cars to downtown- they are here already. Everyone I know that lives downtown save one has and uses a car.

You can claim your nuanced argumentation but I’m reflecting what it sounds like.
I don't work for ASU, yet my coworkers sometimes go to that Chick-fil-A. It certainly does serve ASU students, but it's hardly limited to them. More importantly, it's evidence that a non-drive-thru format can work just fine for the brand. With respect to the McDonald's a quarter mile to the south, I hope it is eventually replaced with a more productive, less car-centric use of that prime land -- not via government edict, but instead via market forces.

Cars may already be downtown, but that's no reason to encourage people to use them for every errand. The Taylor Chick-fil-A is meant to be approached on foot. This one should be too. The double drive-thru will do nothing to reduce congestion. It will only serve to induce more demand, increase congestion, and make the landscape more hostile to non-automotive travel.

Your claim that nearly everyone you know Downtown is car-reliant reflects a landscape in which non-automotive transport in disincentivized by bad design. Fix the design and some mode shift will likely occur. The least nuanced approach to looking at issues like this is one of relentless status-quo-ism: Everyone has a car and uses it so we shouldn't even think we could do things differently. No thanks.

Last edited by exit2lef; Sep 24, 2023 at 4:58 PM.
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  #1382  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 7:11 PM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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My position is hardly a “relentless” hold to the status quo. Heck I’m the guy who started the thread about making downtown more walkable. I want a traditional markplatz walking street. I want a beautiful traditional downtown square.

But 7th Ave is a primary road entrance and exit to downtown. This isn’t the heart of downtown so I think you’re swimming upstream with your goals on this one.
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  #1383  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2023, 1:26 AM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by MiEncanto View Post

But 7th Ave is a primary road entrance and exit to downtown. This isn’t the heart of downtown so I think you’re swimming upstream with your goals on this one.
I don't think the residents of the historic homes on McKinley consider their street a primary entrance and exit, yet that's where the double drive-thru lanes are. In fairness to the restaurant, I've heard the city encouraged the lanes to be put there. If so, that was civic malpractice.

This board is all about swimming upstream, whether that takes the form or cheering for a new tallest tower or advocating for a more walkable downtown. I'm happy to swim with the salmon here.
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  #1384  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2023, 1:34 AM
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combusean combusean is offline
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The fact is that 7th Avenue is the "road entrance" for downtown (whatever that really means) is a problem and shouldn't be taken as a given. Downtown would be much healthier if it wasn't walled off by the moat of the 7s and was better integrated with the surrounding neighborhoods. 7th Avenue and most of the other damn streets need road diets.

You can't simultaneously advocate for a healthy downtown and be as accommodating as possible for cars. LA has hit the problem (and I've seen it plenty elsewhere in California) where traffic and parking is too bad and the public transit is missing, so people practically never leave their neighborhood. Downtown might approach that sooner or later and it's a crappy artificial maximum.

Advocating for a restaurant format that wouldn't be out of place on the fringes of Queen Creek is a stupid take on this forum anyways.
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  #1385  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2023, 2:45 AM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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Ahh yes of course I forgot that it is stupid. How silly of me. Let them eat cake.
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  #1386  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2023, 11:52 AM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by combusean View Post
The fact is that 7th Avenue is the "road entrance" for downtown (whatever that really means) is a problem and shouldn't be taken as a given. Downtown would be much healthier if it wasn't walled off by the moat of the 7s and was better integrated with the surrounding neighborhoods. 7th Avenue and most of the other damn streets need road diets.

You can't simultaneously advocate for a healthy downtown and be as accommodating as possible for cars. LA has hit the problem (and I've seen it plenty elsewhere in California) where traffic and parking is too bad and the public transit is missing, so people practically never leave their neighborhood. Downtown might approach that sooner or later and it's a crappy artificial maximum.

Advocating for a restaurant format that wouldn't be out of place on the fringes of Queen Creek is a stupid take on this forum anyways.
Yes to all that. We shouldn't assume that the 7th Avenue that exists today is inevitable and permanent. To date, there hasn't been suffiicent vision by city staff or support on the council to tame the 7s, but reform should remain a long-term goal.

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Ahh yes of course I forgot that it is stupid. How silly of me. Let them eat cake.
I'd rather eat a spicy deluxe chicken sandwich and waffle fries.
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  #1387  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2023, 12:19 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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Originally Posted by MiEncanto View Post
Ahh yes of course I forgot that it is stupid. How silly of me. Let them eat cake.
Why do you keep defaulting to the easily disproven falsehood that this is about the price point of the food? Are you that dense thining if this were some five dollar sign double-lane drive through everyone would be OK with it?

It's like you're deliberately trolling.
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  #1388  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2023, 3:55 PM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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I think everyone is having their fun here including me.

Trolling is not my intent. I do intend to remind the urban planners that they tend to leave out certain segments in their planning. Like the guy driving to serve at the cafes and restaurants downtown. They do drive because they certainly cannot afford to live downtown so this isn't just about price point but convenience. You can 'road diet' downtown and some of that would probably be just fine but 7th Ave is probably not gonna be on the list.

I just get tired of the classist attitude I see from many of the sim city playing urban planners who advocate to eliminate the preference of a major component of society- and one in particular who's doing all the blue collar work our downtown certainly needs.

Go ask the construction workers who are building the towers we dream of what they think of the new Chic Fila. I used to work construction and I can tell ya they are pumped.
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  #1389  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2023, 4:23 PM
J_PHX J_PHX is offline
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Chick-Fil-A's land is huge! Some perspective is it is ~63k sqft and the land where Astra is to be built is ~83k sqft.
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  #1390  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2023, 5:10 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiEncanto View Post
I think everyone is having their fun here including me.

Trolling is not my intent. I do intend to remind the urban planners that they tend to leave out certain segments in their planning. Like the guy driving to serve at the cafes and restaurants downtown. They do drive because they certainly cannot afford to live downtown so this isn't just about price point but convenience. You can 'road diet' downtown and some of that would probably be just fine but 7th Ave is probably not gonna be on the list.

I just get tired of the classist attitude I see from many of the sim city playing urban planners who advocate to eliminate the preference of a major component of society- and one in particular who's doing all the blue collar work our downtown certainly needs.

Go ask the construction workers who are building the towers we dream of what they think of the new Chic Fila. I used to work construction and I can tell ya they are pumped.
The worst form of classism is the assumption that ownership of a car and the ability to drive it should be the price of entry into the economy.
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  #1391  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2023, 5:37 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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Bar coming to PHX aims to recreate the vibe of vintage high-end air travel

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Originally Posted by ASU Diablo View Post
That team has been on fire lately. They also recently announced another cocktail bar concept that’s supposed to reflect the golden age of travel in the 50s-70s. Looks cool!
From another thread. Link to news coverage.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...in-downto.html

Quote:
Pretty Decent Concepts, the team behind downtown Phoenix’s Wren & Wolf and the no-phones allowed bar Trophy Room, are bringing a new concept to downtown that could be one of the Valley's priciest bar buildouts.

That's no problem, according to the owners, who think it will pay off.

Carry On is the new experiential bar concept that has an old-school air travel theme. It will be located on the ground floor of the Renaissance Square complex at the corner of Washington Street and First Avenue in Phoenix. That is where Wren & Wolf and Trophy Room are also located.

Carry On is being designed so guests can experience the opulence and elegance of air travel from the 1960s to early '70s.


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  #1392  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2023, 4:19 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by ASU Diablo View Post
From another thread. Link to news coverage.
As somebody on planes far too often this will just make me further hate my life.

Especially since we pay luxury prices these days for "Bus in the sky" service.
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  #1393  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2023, 4:54 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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The glory and the horror of the worlds largest chik Filet Drive Through.




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  #1394  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2023, 7:17 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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The downzoning on 7th Ave was probably the second dumbest thing to come out of Urban Form. At least the damage is done on that strip. I'll look forward to it all being torn down in 20 years.
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  #1395  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2023, 9:53 PM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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All hail the King of 7th Ave!
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  #1396  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2023, 3:21 PM
TJPHXskyscraperfan TJPHXskyscraperfan is offline
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At least it has an entrance from the street,lol.
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  #1397  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2023, 4:55 PM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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It's a win that it's not drive thru only. Shows faith in the area. 10 years ago they would not have done that, see the Bethany Home rd and 19th ave to see the design when it's a not-so-hot area.
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  #1398  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2023, 5:02 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by MiEncanto View Post
It's a win that it's not drive thru only. Shows faith in the area. 10 years ago they would not have done that, see the Bethany Home rd and 19th ave to see the design when it's a not-so-hot area.
I actually kind of like the takeout walk up windows.
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  #1399  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2023, 5:10 PM
MiEncanto MiEncanto is offline
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I actually kind of like the takeout walk up windows.
I dont mind them per se but for families in the area it's a win.
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  #1400  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2023, 9:52 PM
N830MH N830MH is offline
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Do you know what’s going on the former Ruby’s Tuesday on 44th street and Washington Street? They used to be. Are they going to renovate it or what?? I saw the construction crews. They closed it down and not enough customers. I wasn’t sure what is happening to Ruby’s Tuesday.
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