[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Man - this guy can’t be pleased by anything. First trashes the Mexican restaurant and now the Market Slip development. I think this will be spectacular when it’s done.

If you look at his posting history it is essentially 100% negativity on anything and everything SJ related. There are plenty of really positive people with great perspectives you can interact with and sometimes have to just ignore the negativity.

[sailor734]

Sorry but as a life long SJ resident it annoys me to see us seemingly falling behind other cities in the Maritimes and across Canada. When stuff does get built it often seems to be less than inspiring and certainly not as good as it might have been. It's hard to get excited about boring looking four story, stick built boxes of apartments going up or about a new fast food chicken place opening. (and yes I know we are in desperate need of housing that is even remotely affordable so these buildings are perhaps the price.....that doesn't mean we have to like it or not regret we couldn't have more attractive looking/interesting buildings)

As a teenager and young adult in my 20's I lived through an exciting uptown renaissance from the late 70's through early 90's with major projects like Brunswick Square, Market Square, The Hilton, York Point, Harbour Station, The Imperial, the Aquatic Centre, major City Market reno, the extensive pedway system and sidewalk/steetscape upgrades all being built in rapid succession over about 15 years. Since then we have kind of stagnated with things happening far more slowly/sporadically and lots of projects announced with great fanfare but then coming to nothing.

While I'm delighted to see some activity on Fundy Quay it's taken 20 years of false starts and big announcements that went nowhere to get here.......and then there's Percy's Perma Pit that is about to celebrate it's third birthday.

From my POV the jury is still out on the former Loyalist Plaza overhaul but I'm not yet convinced we got the best bang for the buck........ or that it is going to be as interesting, attractive or welcoming a space as it could have been. Time will tell I guess

The Museum is certainly one bright spot I will admit although I do wish it could have found a home in the Utown core (preferably on the water). That ship has sailed so we all just need to hope the Douglas Ave location will be as impressive as we all hope it will be.

I think if some here would take off their rose coloured glasses and take a hard look at Saint John development vs other cities they'd find there is plenty to be critical of.....and plenty of room for improvement.

What some here view as negativity I see as being realistic. I see this forum as a place to debate and discuss development and various projects, not as a place to provide unrelenting complements to mediocre developments.

Just my 2 cents.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Sorry but as a life long SJ resident it annoys me to see us seemingly falling behind other cities in the Maritimes and across Canada. When stuff does get built it often seems to be less than inspiring and certainly not as good as it might have been. It's hard to get excited about boring looking four story, stick built boxes of apartments going up or about a new fast food chicken place opening. (and yes I know we are in desperate need of housing that is even remotely affordable so these buildings are perhaps the price.....that doesn't mean we have to like it or not regret we couldn't have more attractive looking/interesting buildings)

As a teenager and young adult in my 20's I lived through an exciting uptown renaissance from the late 70's through early 90's with major projects like Brunswick Square, Market Square, The Hilton, York Point, Harbour Station, The Imperial, the Aquatic Centre, major City Market reno, the extensive pedway system and sidewalk/steetscape upgrades all being built in rapid succession over about 15 years. Since then we have kind of stagnated with things happening far more slowly/sporadically and lots of projects announced with great fanfare but then coming to nothing.

While I'm delighted to see some activity on Fundy Quay it's taken 20 years of false starts and big announcements that went nowhere to get here.......and then there's Percy's Perma Pit that is about to celebrate it's third birthday.

From my POV the jury is still out on the former Loyalist Plaza overhaul but I'm not yet convinced we got the best bang for the buck........ or that it is going to be as interesting, attractive or welcoming a space as it could have been. Time will tell I guess

The Museum is certainly one bright spot I will admit although I do wish it could have found a home in the Utown core (preferably on the water). That ship has sailed so we all just need to hope the Douglas Ave location will be as impressive as we all hope it will be.

I think if some here would take off their rose coloured glasses and take a hard look at Saint John development vs other cities they'd find there is plenty to be critical of.....and plenty of room for improvement.

What some here view as negativity I see as being realistic. I see this forum as a place to debate and discuss development and various projects, not as a place to provide unrelenting complements to mediocre developments.

Just my 2 cents.

Museum will look awesome from top of King Street - Prince Albert Ct partially blocked the old building but new wing will be prominent - even for cars on harbour bridge. Much of your sentiment is same as Don Darling - we don’t just need announcements, we need follow through (on projects). Hopefully you’ll be pleasantly surprised when it opens. First building ground level merchants could have the same feel like The Bicycle Thief and Bishops Landing in HFX.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Museum will look awesome from top of King Street - Prince Albert Ct partially blocked the old building but new wing will be prominent - even for cars on harbour bridge. Much of your sentiment is same as Don Darling - we don’t just need announcements, we need follow through (on projects). Hopefully you’ll be pleasantly surprised when it opens. First building ground level merchants could have the same feel like The Bicycle Thief and Bishops Landing in HFX.

It would be amazing if we could have a fraction of the atmosphere, attractions and facilities of the Halifax waterfront. However, in fairness, we aren't the provincial capital, don't have multiple large universities or multiple regional offices for Atlantic Canada. Nor are we the largest and really only significant city in the province. Still, we should aim to capture that same feel and vitality. I'm hopeful for Fundy Quay. I guess time will tell.

[DyAm00394]

Street construction in south end to start in May
Water, sewer and sidewalk work on Charlotte and St. James Streets will run from May through to the fall near new school.

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/str...o-start-in-may

“Roadwork related to the new school in the south peninsula is planned to start in May and run through the end of October, the city says.

The street reconstruction on parts of Charlotte Street and St. James Street, as well as the intersection at Broad Street, “will have a considerable impact on traffic and residents in this area during construction,” according to a staff report at council’s meeting last Tuesday.

The work includes new storm sewers as well as watermain and sanitary sewer renewal, and helps support the planned Southern Peninsula school project, according to the report.

The City of Saint John and consultants Englobe held public information sessions Wednesday at Trinity Church to give residents a chance to ask questions about the work. Englobe’s Andrew Melanson said during the afternoon session that a handful of residents and business owners had come in with “general questions” on how the project would play out, including time frame.

Work on the project will start in May with the intersection at Charlotte and Lower Cove Loop, with the contract specifying that one lane of traffic be open at all times, city engineer Kevin O’Brien said. Work will then go up the hill, including underground work on St. James and Ross Streets. There will be “limited access” for nearby residents as work progresses, with detour signs posted as needed, O’Brien said. The contract calls for completion by the end of October, according to O’Brien.

O’Brien said that the work would “improve access for all users” and will include a new curb and sidewalk. Other features include a dedicated bike lane and enhanced crosswalks with “tactile warning surface indicator” system and curb extensions.

At Saint John common council, CAO Brent McGovern said that the city, province and Anglophone School District South are continuing work on the south-end school, as well as the north-end school, and their associated community hubs.

“There are several subcommittees that continue to work through various matters such as parking and public access, shared use, traffic and engineering and construction-related questions,” McGovern said.

The two school projects are slated to open September 2026, McGovern said”.

[sailor734]

No mention in that release about the rest of Charlotte up as far as Union. Is this a multiyear plan?

[DyAm00394]

Originally Posted by sailor734

No mention in that release about the rest of Charlotte up as far as Union. Is this a multiyear plan?

If you go back a few pages on this thread I posted an article on March 26th that mentions this road project is being done in sections starting with the southern end of the street by the new school. They have until 2027 to complete this entire project to ensure federal funding.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/work-on-...site-1.6823310

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

If you go back a few pages on this thread I posted an article on March 26th that mentions this road project is being done in sections starting with the southern end of the street by the new school. They have until 2027 to complete this entire project to ensure federal funding.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/work-on-...site-1.6823310

Thanks. I thought I’d read something to that effect but couldn’t remember for sure.

[DyAm00394]

Another new article about the hole at the top of King Street. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...rths-1.7176819

In the article councillor Gerry Lowe mentions they were told something will be happening in the fall, the developer is trying to get a commercial tenant. Lowe said that it’s something Wilbur is struggling to secure.

[sailor734]

Given the housing shortage why wouldn't he just build 100% residential?

[JakeNB]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Another new article about the hole at the top of King Street. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...rths-1.7176819

In the article councillor Gerry Lowe mentions they were told something will be happening in the fall, the developer is trying to get a commercial tenant. Lowe said that it’s something Wilbur is struggling to secure.

Narrator: In fact nothing is going to happen in the fall.

[sailor734]

As I asked in the 91 King thread...does the city actually have any power to at least force a site cleanup, better fence and a sidewalk repair/return to use? I can certainly see developers being allowed to block sidewalks and even parts of a street during urban construction. However, for a site that's been vacant and idle for 3 years isn't time to say "cleanup your mess and get off public property"?


When he says "commercial" is that storefronts or office space. If he means office space I suspect he'll be "struggling to secure" for a long time.

[Itme]

My guess is that he is using the lack of commercial tenant to buy time to start construction. He could easily make this 100 percent residential but likely doesn’t have the funds to start and is citing a lack of commercial tenant instead.

When/if this gets built, it will be 90% residential with maybe a ground floor for restaurant or something along those lines. There is no reason why he should be so focused on having office space when it’s clear that the demand isn’t there and likely won’t be for a long time. He doesn’t have the funding, if he did- he would have built it already. He was struggling financially on the wentworth and is trying to sell
His building on the corner of union and charlotte. The city needs to step in here, if they have any power at all.

[adamuptownsj]

Zoning requires ground-level commercial but office space is a pipe dream.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Zoning requires ground-level commercial but office space is a pipe dream.

Wouldn't the city be pretty amiable to rezoning if it meant construction would start?

I've seen many buildings in other cities where the ground floor of urban residential buildings contained housing.....often with a tiny patio behind railing with a gate and 3-4 steps up to an exterior door for each unit....almost like a townhouses .

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Wouldn't the city be pretty amiable to rezoning if it meant construction would start?

I've seen many buildings in other cities where the ground floor of urban residential buildings contained housing.....often with a tiny patio behind railing with a gate and 3-4 steps up to an exterior door for each unit....almost like a townhouses .

I don't think that's appropriate for the literal centre of the city. Finding 1-2 commercial tenants for the ground floor should not hold up construction of a building with 70-80 residential units from the second or third floor up. All Saint John is getting out of this is one excuse after another.

If this was towards the south end of Water St or something, fine, sure. Put in ground floor residential. Not on King.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

I don't think that's appropriate for the literal centre of the city. Finding 1-2 commercial tenants for the ground floor should not hold up construction of a building with 70-80 residential units from the second or third floor up. All Saint John is getting out of this is one excuse after another.

If this was towards the south end of Water St or something, fine, sure. Put in ground floor residential. Not on King.

I don’t necessarily disagree with that but if it really did mean the difference between the hole and a building going up………

That side of King really doesn’t have much in the way of street facing commercial so I don’t think it would be that big of a deal

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I don’t necessarily disagree with that but if it really did mean the difference between the hole and a building going up………

That side of King really doesn’t have much in the way of street facing commercial so I don’t think it would be that big of a deal

It's absolutely not the difference- he's still 'trying' to secure office space tenants. Either way, we shouldn't warp city zoning as a favour to the guy.

Good reviews of the hole on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pe...jfvx?entry=ttu

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

It's absolutely not the difference- he's still 'trying' to secure office space tenants. Either way, we shouldn't warp city zoning as a favour to the guy.

Good reviews of the hole on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pe...jfvx?entry=ttu

That's pretty funny

But is it really just a hole? Some think that perhaps it's a major art installation......"A surrealistic representation of city's broken dreams set against a blighted, post apocalyptical urban landscape."

With the right marketing it could be a huge attraction.