CFL in the Maritimes

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by isaidso

CFL stadium requirements aren't very stringent. That they allow the end zones to be cut off at some stadia due to athletics tracks speaks volumes about how obliging they are.

The only requirements that I've heard are that a stadium have a seating capacity of 25,000. Molson Stadium was given an exemption, but even this facility is being expanded to 25,000 for 2010.

I suppose grass or Field Turf are requirements, but doubt there's anything required beyond a very bare bones structure. Perhaps, there's a minimum distance permitted between the field and first row of seats for safety reasons.

I think of the old Dallas Cowboys stadium and the hole in the roof. If the stands are completely covered but the playing field isn't, then the roof does not need to be extremely high since it won't be in the field of play. So a high kick could essentially go well above the roof line. So the maximum height of the roof over the stands might be only 70 - 80 feet instead of 300 feet to the roof at some large NFL stadia.

I am somewhat preoccupied with the roof at a potential Halifax stadium. A completely covered stadium would be too costly but it would be best to have all the seats covered. It seems strange to me that there are stadia where there is a roof over the stands but the people closest to the field are not covered and are the most likely to get drenched during a heavy shower. It seems in some ways to penalize the people paying the most for seat tickets.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The presence of an athletic track does not significantly impact the value of the facility as a football stadium.

Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton was built for the Commonwealth Games (sorry Halifax) and has an integrated track but it is still a highly regarded football stadium. I think it has the highest attendance of any stadium in the CFL.

Your comparing Moncton's stadium to Edmonton's? It appears that there is almost an entire 2nd track (additional 8-lanes) width of extra space at the Moncton stadium due to runways for long jumping located on the outside of the track instead of the inside. This pushes the first row back significantly further.

Commonwealth stadium




Moncton Again




Even the other university football fields in the region are not that far back.

St.FX




SMU Huskies stadium


Acadia Raymond field

[MonctonRad]

You are comparing photographs of the other stadiums to a render of the Moncton stadium. A render I might add that I am not particularly fond of. It has a distorted perspective and de-emphasizes the size of the stands. The actual facility itself is more impressive.

To compare apples to apples, you would need comparable photographs taken from the same vantage point for each stadium.

If the grandstands for the Moncton Stadium were as large as the ones at Commonwealth Stadium, this would do a lot to de-emphasize the apparent size of the field.

It's all a matter of perspective.

[mmmatt]

I also wouldn't put much faith in that render considering that it is already wrong. The white bleachers in that render actually have a color pattern on them. And so far I have seen 2 different renderings of this stadium so I'm not even sure if that is the most reliable.

Irregardless, even if the stands are 10 feet further back than other stadiums on one side, if the CFL thinks its good enough to hold their first ever regular season game outside of a teams hometown, than I'm not concerned. Plus I'm sure it could be remedied with the addition of another few rows of seats closer to the field.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by mmmatt

I also wouldn't put much faith in that render considering that it is already wrong. The white bleachers in that render actually have a color pattern on them. And so far I have seen 2 different renderings of this stadium so I'm not even sure if that is the most reliable.

Irregardless, even if the stands are 10 feet further back than other stadiums on one side, if the CFL thinks its good enough to hold their first ever regular season game outside of a teams hometown, than I'm not concerned. Plus I'm sure it could be remedied with the addition of another few rows of seats closer to the field.

Unless the seats are built up off the ground by a good 3 metres at least, I don't think this will happen.

And as far as people are talking about the set-back, it really has more to do with if Moncton actually gets their own team down the line. Being closer to the field is something that is definitely desired if you go regularly to games, so it could be a bit of a negative being that it is set further back. We will have to see when the full stadium is finished though.

[JasonL-Moncton]

I was at the stadium for the torch relay ceremony and the set-back isn't really that far...

[q12]

Originally Posted by JasonL-Moncton

I was at the stadium for the torch relay ceremony and the set-back isn't really that far...

This photo shows it a little better. I'm not saying it's too far back, however it has to be one of the furthest set-back stadiums in the country. It's been designed to accommodate track & field more than football unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Nathan

Unless the seats are built up off the ground by a good 3 metres at least, I don't think this will happen.

And as far as people are talking about the set-back, it really has more to do with if Moncton actually gets their own team down the line. Being closer to the field is something that is definitely desired if you go regularly to games, so it could be a bit of a negative being that it is set further back. We will have to see when the full stadium is finished though.

I agree, this stadium would need serious expensive upgrades in capacity and design to be a good home for a CFL team.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by q12

This photo shows it a little better. I'm not saying it's too far back, however it has to be one of the furthest set-back stadiums in the country. It's been designed to accommodate track & field more than football unfortunately.

I agree, this stadium would need serious expensive upgrades in capacity and design to be a good home for a CFL team.

I don't think anyone is saying that this stadium is CFL ready.........even with the temporary bleachers, it will still seat only 20,000 which is less than CFL standards.

Having said this, the Moncton Stadium will be the largest stadium in the region, will be thoroughly modern and will also have advanced press box facilities. It's the best we got.

The partnership that Moncton has forged with the CFL should be viewed as a five year experiment. If at the end of that time there is still mutual interest, then additional measures will be necessary in order to acquire a CFL franchise.

One of these measures will have to be the upgrading the current stadium to CFL standards...... It might actually be a good thing to have the existing stands set back as they are from the field. It would likely be cheaper to excavate and lower the level of the field to add more seating in front of the existing stands rather than extend the height of the stands.

By doing this and by putting new stands behind the end zones, we could easily get seating for 25-30,000 people at this facility.

One of the advantages of this stadium in it's current location is "room to grow". I have been following the furious (and mildly panicked) discussions in the Halifax forum, it seems that there is great difficulty in finding a site big enough on the penninsula to accomodate an appropriate stadium. If Halifax builds a new stadium, it may have to be in a suburban location.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't think anyone is saying that this stadium is CFL ready.........even with the temporary bleachers, it will still seat only 20,000 which is less than CFL standards.

Having said this, the Moncton Stadium will be the largest stadium in the region, will be thoroughly modern and will also have advanced press box facilities. It's the best we got.

The partnership that Moncton has forged with the CFL should be viewed as a five year experiment. If at the end of that time there is still mutual interest, then additional measures will be necessary in order to acquire a CFL franchise.

One of these measures will have to be the upgrading the current stadium to CFL standards...... It might actually be a good thing to have the existing stands set back as they are from the field. It would likely be cheaper to excavate and lower the level of the field to add more seating in front of the existing stands rather than extend the height of the stands.

By doing this and by putting new stands behind the end zones, we could easily get seating for 25-30,000 people at this facility.

One of the advantages of this stadium in it's current location is "room to grow". I have been following the furious (and mildly panicked) discussions in the Halifax forum, it seems that there is great difficulty in finding a site big enough on the penninsula to accomodate an appropriate stadium. If Halifax builds a new stadium, it may have to be in a suburban location.

How about we Haligonians and Monctonians stop bickering (I'm guilty of it) on here and work together to lure the CFL into Atlantic Canada. I think a case can be made for a team already in Halifax without question if the stadium was there (which will not be built tomorrow but hopefully soon). And after the experiment in Moncton and the proof of fan support there (which I have no doubt of there will be) a case can be made for a 2nd team. In 5-10 years both populations should have increased, and we could really start to look at a Nova Scotia CFL team and a New Brunswick CFL team (although Saint John might want to compete for that ). Really in a sense Halifax and Nova Scotia could be compared to Winnipeg and Manitoba, and Moncton and Saint John compared to Regina and Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.

The CFL might have a hidden agenda to try and make Halifax jealous of Moncton, but the point is that if the CFL wants to make itself coast to coast I'm really starting to think its not completely impossible for that to include the possibility of a team in the two largest provinces in Atlantic Canada in the next 5-15 years.

A truce:
To the future success of the Halifax or Nova Scotia Schooner's and the Moncton or New Brunswick Express.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by q12

The CFL might have a hidden agenda to try and make Halifax jealous of Moncton, but the point is that if the CFL wants to make itself coast to coast I'm really starting to think its not completely impossible for that to include the possibility of a team in the two largest provinces in Atlantic Canada in the next 5-15 years.

A truce:
To the future success of the Halifax or Nova Scotia Schooner's and the Moncton or New Brunswick Express.

I would agree to a truce any day.

I too think that it is not absolutely beyond the realm of possibility to have two CFL teams in the region. Your point about MB and SK are well taken:

MB + SK = 2.1M people
NS + NB + PE = 1.85M people

There is not much difference. The Maritimes might be able to support two teams.

Both Moncton and Halifax have unique catchment areas but are close enough to one another to allow for easy road transport between the two communities. Just think of the potential rivalry between the two Maritime teams.......the cavalcade of fans driving the TCH on game days and the boost to the local economies (hotels & restaurants) by all these out of town sports fans. I think the success of this scenario is a gimmie.

Perhaps this potential scenario should be pitched to the CFL as such............ Give the Maritimes two teams and watch the natural rivalry take off; success would be assured

I think the CFL has to expand in order to thrive and survive. Eight, nine or even ten teams just doesn't cut it. To make the CFL more relevant, it has to become more accessible to more Canadians.

I once posted on the CFL thread in the Canada section a scenario featuring a 16 team CFL.

Eastern Conference

Atlantic Division
- Halifax
- Moncton
- Quebec City
- Montreal

Central Division
- Ottawa
- Toronto
- Hamilton
- London

Western Conference

Prairie Division
- Winnipeg
- Saskatoon
- Regina
- Edmonton

Pacific Division
- Calgary
- Kelowna
- Vancouver
- Victoria

I betcha that a CFL with this configuration would have over 90% of the Canadian population within a two hour drive of a franchise city. This would do oodles for boosting the popularity of the league. This is a goal worth striving for.

Perhaps a united front would serve the interest of both our cities

[MonctonRad]

Moncton tests CFL waters
Published Friday November 27th, 2009

City officials get first-hand look at pro football experience during Grey Cup
Neil Hodge

CALGARY - Moncton Mayor George LeBlanc doesn't know what the future holds.

"Here's the way I look at it," he said. "I know that the topic of a Canadian Football League team in Moncton has been bandied about for quite some time. There are those who think it would absolutely work and there are those who are very skeptical of it.

"My view is the old saying that you have to learn how to crawl before you walk. That's exactly what we're doing here."

LeBlanc and Ian Fowler, Moncton's general manager of recreation, parks, tourism and culture, will be in attendance when the Montreal Alouettes and Saskatchewan Roughriders clash in the Grey Cup on Sunday at McMahon Stadium in Calgary.

They travelled out west yesterday and it's a business trip given that Moncton will host Atlantic Canada's first-ever CFL regular season game next September. The Toronto Argonauts will be the home team, but their opponent and the date won't be confirmed until early in the new year.

LeBlanc and Fowler are attending the Grey Cup as guests of CFL commissioner Mark Cohon.

"The commissioner wanted us to come out and take a look at things from an event perspective," said Fowler. "I'm talking about the festival side and some of the programs he wants us to consider implementing because to use his words, he wants the Moncton game to replicate a mini Grey Cup week.

"He wants us to experience it, meet with some Grey Cup organizers and see what are some of the challenges they faced. Keep in mind the Grey Cup is much bigger than what we'll be doing, but it's a chance for us to get some ideas."

The Moncton duo will be busy waving the city's flag. They will be talking to the CFL commissioner and other league brass, team officials, Grey Cup committee people and other dignitaries.

Lots of introductions and handshakes. Lots of activity jammed into four days as LeBlanc and Fowler further cement the relationship between the CFL and Moncton.

"It's an opportunity to see the community activities around the Grey Cup and to let people know that Moncton is excited about hosting a regular season game next September," said Fowler. "It's important for Moncton to have a presence this week in Calgary now that we're partners with the CFL.

"We'll talk to the Toronto Argonauts. They've made it clear that after Christmas they want to start to create an Argos presence in the community because they want to be seen as the home team in Moncton. We'll exchange some ideas with them as to how to wave their double blue flag."

The Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium is a new facility that will surely have a sellout of 20,000 for the CFL game. The historic event will be televised nationally on TSN so it's a tremendous advertising opportunity for the city.

Tickets are expected to go on sale in mid-February. The prices haven't yet been confirmed, but they will be in line with CFL regular season games in other markets. To receive the latest information as it becomes available, fans can sign up at CFL.ca/Moncton.

Moncton's mayor is looking forward to experiencing the community events and festivals that surround the Grey Cup. LeBlanc wants to gather ideas and ensure that our city comes up a big winner in the national spotlight.

Cohon has gone to great lengths to convince the CFL to make a bold move by staging a regular season game in Moncton. He thinks outside the box, wants to try new initiatives and coming to Atlantic Canada will clearly be one of his legacies as league commissioner.

"I'm certainly going to be there for him and get what I can out of this week's Grey Cup trip," said LeBlanc. "It's definitely an opportunity for us to get to know people in the league and develop a relationship for the future.

"This is one game (that we've landed for Moncton) and there could be lots of future opportunities. I really believe we're going to have a mini Grey Cup week in Moncton next year with lots of exciting community events around the game."

Moncton has attracted numerous major outdoor concerts and it all began with The Rolling Stones in 2005. All these shows drew anywhere from 30,000 to 80,000 fans.

A crowd of 80,000 showed up for The Rolling Stones, making it the biggest show on their North American tour that year.

Our city has also staged numerous national and international sporting events. We're now getting ready to roll out the welcome mat for the Moncton 2010 World Junior Track and Field Championships next summer.

"We'll talk to people this week about the success Moncton has had in hosting big events and why we expect this CFL event to be a great thing for both Moncton and the league," said LeBlanc. "I have absolute confidence that this is going to be a tremendous success.

"I understand if you're the CFL commissioner or the team owners and you're in Ontario or out west that you may need some convincing. Trust me, when we put this on in Moncton they're going to be convinced big time."

Talk of a CFL franchise in Moncton began 25 years ago and it's never gone away. A new stadium that has the potential to expand to 25,000 capacity and landing a regular season game has obviously brought the talk to a whole new level.

Moncton is looking to host one CFL regular season game per year for the next five seasons.

"This is the perfect opportunity for any business people who might be interested in the possibility of a CFL franchise in Moncton to dip their toes in the water and assess the situation," said LeBlanc. "What better way to assess it than holding a regular season game here?

"I'm not saying whether a CFL team will or will not happen in Moncton, but it's no longer just a theoretical exercise when we talk about it. The business community will have an opportunity to view things here and think about it themselves."

in deference to q12, I removed the obligatory reference to Moncton's central location and the three hour catchment population from this article.

[fenwick16]

It isn't that far fetched to have both in the CFL. After all, neither one has the NHL to compete with. And they would create a natural rivalry. If Moncton can get 80,000 to a concert then they can get 30,000 to a CFL game. I just hope that the CFL is in Halifax sooner than in 10 years.

[MonctonRad]

Moncton in CFL spotlight
Published Saturday November 28th, 2009

League commissioner touts Hub City during news conference
Neil Hodge

CALGARY - Canadian Football League Commissioner Mark Cohon spoke about Moncton during his annual state of the league news conference.


Dean Bicknell/Calgary Herald
Mayor George LeBlanc, left, CFL Commissioner Mark Cohon and Ian Fowler, Moncton’s general manager for recreation, parks, tourism and culture, stand by the Grey Cup yesterday during the Commissioner’s State of our League address at the Fairmount Palliser Hotel in Calgary.

The Toronto Argonauts will be the home team when the first-ever CFL regular season game in Atlantic Canada takes place next September at the Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium. Their opponent and the date for this historic event isn't yet known.

"There's a few reasons,'' Cohon told a large media gathering yesterday in Calgary when asked why the league is willing for the first time to hold a regular season game in a neutral site market.

"There's the stability of the league. There's a fan base in Atlantic Canada that loves our game. There's a new stadium being built at the University of Moncton that can accommodate a CFL regular season game. Those things come into play and say this makes sense for us and it's a good opportunity for Atlantic Canada.''

The CFL will have nine teams when Ottawa's expansion franchise hits the field in 2013.

The perfect scenario would obviously be to some day add a 10th franchise in the Atlantic region.

This would give an even number of teams to make scheduling easier. It would also make for five teams in both the east and west and turn this into a coast-to-coast league.

Moncton is looking to host one regular season game per year for the next five seasons.

The stadium will have a capacity of 20,000 for next year's game, but it has the potential to be expanded to at least 25,000 which would make it big enough for a CFL franchise.

"We're taking baby steps,'' said Cohon. "We're going to walk before we run. There's a couple of things that need to take place (in Moncton). You have to find the right local owners who are dedicated to their community.

"Step 2 is to make sure you have a viable stadium. I think Moncton has made a step forward, but that stadium would have to be improved and enlarged for a CFL franchise.

Step 3 is you've got to make sure the fan base is there.

"The fourth point is that league distributions are split (among the teams). Right now, they're shared one-eighth. It will be one-ninth with Ottawa. If expanding our league (to 10 teams) allows the whole ocean to rise and all boats to rise, then we'll consider it at that time.''

The Montreal Alouettes and Saskatchewan Roughriders will meet in the Grey Cup tomorrow at McMahon Stadium in Calgary.

Moncton Mayor George LeBlanc and Ian Fowler, the city's general manager of recreation, parks, tourism and culture, will attend the game as guests of the CFL commissioner. LeBlanc spoke to national media yesterday.

"The possibility of a Moncton CFL franchise was brought up during the commissioner's presentation,'' he said. "He indicated there's a very good fan base in Atlantic Canada, but there's conditions that would need to be met. Obviously, the league has to be stable and it has to be good for the league overall (to expand).

"I'm not going to speculate on the possibility of a team in Moncton. There has to be strong business interest in the Moncton area. Having a regular season game in Moncton is the proper way to test the market.''

Cohon said that when he looks at the CFL right now the key word is stable. He pointed out that the league has weathered the recession because of the strength of its brand, the commitment of team owners and most of all the devotion of fans.

"When I look at our fan base, I truly believe that they are shareholders in this league,'' he said. "In tough times, I think your fans deserve your attention more than ever.

"We often say in our league it's affordable for families, it's accessible to our supporters and it's authentically and uniquely Canadian. This year, we told ourselves more than ever we have to walk that talk and I'm proud to say that we did that.''

Cohon looked at key benchmarks and provided a breakdown of how the CFL fared this season.

The league drew two million fans in the regular season for the eighth consecutive year.

This attendance figure for such a lengthy stretch is a feat the league accomplished just once before, from 1976-83.

Attendance dropped 1.5 per cent this season compared to 2008, but that's considered good given the challenging economy.

Another important gauge is television ratings and Cohon reported that the CFL is doing excellent on that front. More than three million Canadians watch the league's games on TSN and French sister station RDS each week.

"That's second to only the NHL in this country,'' said Cohon. "We have averaged 767,000 viewers per game since the introduction of the new rating system and 600,000 per game for the entire year.

"Remarkably, five CFL regular season games achieved over a million viewers on TSN. Our ratings on RDS increased as well, over 14 per cent, from 220,000 viewers per game in 2008 to 256,000 in 2009.''

Cohon reported that CFL merchandise sales increased by about four per cent this season from 2008. He also said the league's website had more hits than in 2008 and that more young fans are jumping onboard.

It's not all good news. The CFL had a decrease in national partnerships, but Cohon noted this is in line with drops that other leagues and other sports properties are experiencing across North America.

"I think it's the result of a few things,'' he said. "There's a number of renewals that came up at the same time, a weaker economy and the Olympics in Canada. I will say the prospects for 2010 look better and we are aggressively pursuing those new opportunities as corporate Canada opens up their wallets again.

"You may ask why I describe the league as stable instead of strong. The truth is while a few of our teams are making profits such as Calgary and Saskatchewan most of our teams work hard to break even or make a little money and clearly our teams in Southern Ontario (Toronto and Hamilton) are losing money at this time.''

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

in deference to q12, I removed the obligatory reference to Moncton's central location and the three hour catchment population from this article.

Much appreciated MonctonRad!

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This would give an even number of teams to make scheduling easier. It would also make for five teams in both the east and west and turn this into a coast-to-coast league.

If we were to get our two Atlantic teams in say 5-10 years, I wonder what other city would make the best sense to even it out to 12 teams? Quebec City, London or a team out west?

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You may ask why I describe the league as stable instead of strong. The truth is while a few of our teams are making profits such as Calgary and Saskatchewan most of our teams work hard to break even or make a little money and clearly our teams in Southern Ontario (Toronto and Hamilton) are losing money at this time.''

This makes me wonder if a team can be more profitable in a 25-27,000 seat stadium versus a large, expensive building like the Rogers Centre.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I too think that it is not absolutely beyond the realm of possibility to have two CFL teams in the region. Your point about MB and SK are well taken:

MB + SK = 2.1M people
NS + NB + PE = 1.85M people

There is not much difference. The Maritimes might be able to support two teams.

Another thing is I think we Nova Scotia and New Brunswick are much more compact than Manitoba and Saskatchewan which would make us even more similar when comparing populations.

[ErickMontreal]

Sportsnet
Cohon one-on-oneMark Cohon sitdown

Here's a interesting interview with Cohon, he addressed his thoughts regarding expanding the league in Moncton and in the Martimes as whole at the 7:00 minute mark.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl...cohon_sitdown/

[Dalreg]

Saskatchewan and Manitoba =2.24million population.
NB+NS+PEI=1.81million.

A bit smaller than the Prairies but should be enough to support two teams. As long as the population is willing to travel. Honestly though with two teams the support would be split so you would end up with provinces supportting their own team only. Not many would support a rival team.

That said hopefully soon one team is in the maritimes and maybe even two.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by JasonL-Moncton

I was at the stadium for the torch relay ceremony and the set-back isn't really that far...

I really doubt a 10 yard set-back of th stands will make any difference to the fans experience. Having been to a few big stadiums in my life, even those fans furthest from the field still have a great vantage point.

Some of the CFL requirements are the quality and size of the locker rooms, as this is one the precieved problems with the BMO field in Toronto. As well all CFL stadiums require to have a large press and media facilities. Being a major national sport you can expect TSN, 2 radio stations and a variety of newspapers will be the minimum media covering every game. This does not include the broader sports media covering the team on a daily basis. Having sufficient media facilities is a reality in todays CFL.

The quality of the field is also a concern of league and its players association. The league is looking for a playing surface which best limits the potential of serious player injury, so if an artificial surface is used it will be a factor.

[SHOFEAR]

For what its worth, Commonwealth would be a far far better experience without the track.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by q12

Another thing is I think we Nova Scotia and New Brunswick are much more compact than Manitoba and Saskatchewan which would make us even more similar when comparing populations.

While Saskatchewan is much more spread out.. in Manitoba there is over 900,000 people within 1 hour of Winnipeg city limits.

[isaidso]

All in all, we're splitting hairs here. New Brunswick is comparable to Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia is comparable to Manitoba. The 2 Maritimes provinces have fewer people to draw from, but not by much.

Both Halifax and Moncton could support CFL teams if a similar level of support is achieved out east as in these 2 prairie markets.