New Jersey Falls From Top Ranks in Population

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by PhillyNation

Yes.....the migration south is really a diabolical plot to take over the place and turn it into the north with warmer weather!

Us evil liberals will soon control the Bible Belt! We'll change the name to the Strap-on Belt! Watch all those fundies' heads explode.

[LMich]

I'm not much buying that the migration is making the South and West so much more blue. The people that do take these moves are more often than not moderate-to-conservative middle class individuals and families, whether or not they are Democrats or Republicans. There is not a major liberal migration from the more established part of the country. This isn't some mass liberalization movement.

[Alta California]

Originally Posted by LMich

I'm not much buying that the migration is making the South and West so much more blue. The people that do take these moves are more often than not moderate-to-conservative middle class individuals and families, whether or not they are Democrats or Republicans. There is not a major liberal migration from the more established part of the country. This isn't some mass liberalization movement.

I agree with this exposition, especially breaking partisan labels (R/D) away from political cultures (lib/con). Conservatism will continue be the order of the day in the South and West. So while the demographic changes is not an automatic death-knell for Dems, but more against "progressivism" in general becoming an acceptable national norm.

[Sulley]

Originally Posted by PhillyNation

living up here is something horrible?

yes.

[roner]

^^i would not be so sure as of yet. Montana, a nearly 25 year strong rep. stronghold, has competely been taken over by dems. In Idaho, the dems made their best showing in more than 20 years, and Oregon, Wash, and Cali. all are Democratic/Liberal strongholds. I can't speak for the south, but the balance in the inner west in tipping slightly toward the dem as of now, although they have a lot of catching up to do, and the coast is always a sure lock for them.

As to your point about who is really moving out west. You think it's mostly families moving out west but I'd disagree. I can think of at least 20-30 friends/co-workers from the Northeast/Midwest (i'm from Michigan) all under the age of 30 that have moved to Portland. It's insane really, the town is so young that when I go home I feel like I'm entering a retirement community.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by LMich

I'm not much buying that the migration is making the South and West so much more blue. The people that do take these moves are more often than not moderate-to-conservative middle class individuals and families, whether or not they are Democrats or Republicans. There is not a major liberal migration from the more established part of the country. This isn't some mass liberalization movement.

Why aren't you buying it? Do you think people out west just woke up one day and decided to be Democratic? The west is turning into the newest region dominated by the Democrats, from governors to senators and presidential elections.

[passdoubt]

When I lived in North Carolina, people often talked about how the Triangle (Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill) attracted liberal transplants from the Northeast, while Charlotte attracted conservative transplants from the Midwest and Upstate New York. But I also heard people claim that the Triangle attracted educated young transplants while Charlotte attracted older, wealthier transplants... which may or may not coincide with political affiliation.

Living in Chapel Hill, people often spoke of it being such a liberal place. Coming from the Northeast, I didn't think it was liberal at all, just kinda psuedo-hippy. The political battles in the Triangle (and North Carolina in general I think) seemed to often play out between the religious right and the more libertarian right, neither of which I could really identify with. I percieved NC politics to be very much about who and which policies were more "backward." It was as if people operated from a different political frame of reference than I was used to. Some sided with a church, and some sided with a business. Well I sided with neither.

[Alta California]

Originally Posted by roner

^^i would not be so sure as of yet. Montana, a nearly 25 year strong rep. stronghold, has competely been taken over by dems.

Not true, of all the interior states, Montana is the only state where true parity between the parties exist. Bill Clinton won the state in 1992 and Democrats alternated with Reps in state legislature control. It is the ONLY state legislature (the lower house) where Republican took control after the 2006 elections.

Originally Posted by roner

In Idaho, the dems made their best showing in more than 20 years

They came close...and came up with nothing. In fact, Idaho had a Democrat for governor until 1995. The GOP after 2006 has a 4-to-1 advantage over Dems in the legislature.

Originally Posted by roner

and Oregon, Wash, and Cali. all are Democratic/Liberal strongholds.

Just a quibble: Of the 30 seats the Dems picked up in the House, only ONE came from these three states.

Originally Posted by roner

As to your point about who is really moving out west. You think it's mostly families moving out west but I'd disagree. I can think of at least 20-30 friends/co-workers from the Northeast/Midwest (i'm from Michigan) all under the age of 30 that have moved to Portland. It's insane really, the town is so young that when I go home I feel like I'm entering a retirement community.

Portland added 4,000 people between 2000 and 2005. Riverside, California, the queen city of Red California (aka Inland Empire) added 35,000 in those years. Irvine, California in Orange County added 43,000. They're all as red as you'd expect. No offense, but your single young hip friends can move to Portland as much as they want, but that would be just typical. If you're a good progressive concerned about the future, tell them to bring (or have) kids.

My point is not rah-rah for one party, it's more about putting the brakes on prognosticating well into the future after the result of ONE election. Remember the 15 seats Dems needed to takeover the House in 2006? Guess exactly how many the Reps need now to do the same in 2008? Parties have assumed too long certain loyalties, I think this past decade has put a kibosh to that and it's time they REALLY govern like the election is tomorrow and that we have 50 states (maybe DC).

[JManc]

Originally Posted by LMich

The people that do take these moves are more often than not moderate-to-conservative middle class individuals and families, whether or not they are Democrats or Republicans.

not true. as a recovering new yorker as well as being left of center politically, i tend to gravitate towards other northern transplants since i have been in houston and i've noticed that they actually tend to be more progressive than native texans. since houston tends to be politically moderate, it works out well for the transplants...seeing as the rest of the state (except for austin) well, i will say no more. lol.

[Jersey Mentality]

Well its amazing I think that you can compare a state as small as Jersey to one like North Carolina escpecially considering North Carolina has many sizable cities and metro areas like Charlotte, Winston-Salem/Greensboro, and Raleigh/Durham thier sprawl and some of those other medium sized cities.

[tackledspoon]

Wow... this really is just the petty quibbling forum. We're not solving anything or discussing the problem at hand, just taking some joke and turning it into a bitchfest. I remember why I pretty much stopped visiting this section ages ago.

[LMich]

So, what's the problem you think we need be solving?

[roner]

Portland added 4,000 people between 2000 and 2005. Riverside, California, the queen city of Red California (aka Inland Empire) added 35,000 in those years. Irvine, California in Orange County added 43,000. They're all as red as you'd expect. No offense, but your single young hip friends can move to Portland as much as they want, but that would be just typical. If you're a good progressive concerned about the future, tell them to bring (or have) kids.

Well I guess I'll have to keep quibbling. Portland added 8,000 in last year alone and well over 25,000 in the area between July 2005-2006. Even if you look at the outdated us cenus quick facts, Portland added over 12,000 between 2000-2003. The state is the 11th fastest growing in the country according to the chart someone posted earlier, and Washington is ranked 12th.

While I understand your point about both liberal and conservative areas growing, my point was simply that liberals are moving out west, as well as young people, and dems had made at least some gains.

[liat91]

It will all balance out eventually.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by Sulley

yes.

What makes the south so much better than the north to live in your view?

[tackledspoon]

Originally Posted by LMich

So, what's the problem you think we need be solving?

That northern, urban states are losing people to southern sprawlburbs at an alarming rate...

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by tackledspoon

That northern, urban states are losing people to southern sprawlburbs at an alarming rate...

Don't northern cities "sprawlburb" too? Look at NJ, Boston, Philly (which is where the first true 'suburban' development took place in America)...I could go on and on. This is the perfect example of a lack of education about developments in the south. Read a little bit and you would find that not everything is happening 30 miles away from the central cities of the south.

[Visiteur]

Originally Posted by Lexy

Don't northern cities "sprawlburb" too? Look at NJ, Boston, Philly (which is where the first true 'suburban' development took place in America)...I could go on and on. This is the perfect example of a lack of education about developments in the south. Read a little bit and you would find that not everything is happening 30 miles away from the central cities of the south.

You make a good point, but statistically speaking, communities in the current areas of large population growth also tend to be less dense, and more suggestive of a larger, more suburban-style development. Tell your people in Nashville to stop buying in the burbs' and look into Signature Tower .

As a NE resident, this news is really depressing for me. People up here are already so downtrodden that many are convinced were spiraling into disaster. At least people have hope for the future in the growing regions. I work and wait for the day that people will decide that the NE is an attractive place to live once again.

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by Visiteur

Tell your people in Nashville to stop buying in the burbs' and look into Signature Tower .

Your point about growth trends is a good one. Although most tend to be suburban in nature, there is still a fair share that are urban in just about every way as well. So I guess it's a give a little, take a little type thing.

As far as getting people to move into Siggy, man i'm trying my best! LOL!!!! We should know some more details about it soon though.

[Sulley]

Originally Posted by PhillyNation

What makes the south so much better than the north to live in your view?

Well.

After living almost two years in Buffalo, I'm tired of the north. The property taxes on my $110,000 house are $4,000 per year, almost doubling my mortgage payment (it's 603 vs. 432 for the escrow account). The state sales and income tax are sky high as well. What do we have to show for it? Nothing. This area's infrastructure is from the 50s (at best) and everything is crumbling and neglected -- our DMVs and most libraries in Buffalo had to close because of budget shortfalls a few years ago.

In addition, the city and county governments are controlled by union interests and are muddled by layers upon layers of bureaucracy, driving me absolutely insane. I am all for some government regulation to protect the people, but it's just insane here. Things could easily change, but the population is so insular that they will never vote any differently... they're afraid of becoming something different than they've been for the past 50 years.

Add all of that to an area that looks like it's stuck in 1977 and I'm done. I've seen the error of my ways, that's for sure! Thank goodness I'm flying into Nashville tonight for Christmas. Yay Southwest