San Francisco’s tech workforce is still growing, outpacing other metro areas

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

much of the new nyc office building that is u/c right now is techy related, with all the big playas.

so a tidal wave of millions of square feet of tech industry offices are on deck for here.

Remember when AOC got blamed for killing the tech industry in NYC? lol.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Remember when AOC got blamed for killing the tech industry in NYC? lol.

not really !



Developers Hatch Plans For Mega-Towers On Former Amazon HQ2 Site

Four developers are privately hatching potential plans for a series of mega-towers lining the Long Island City waterfront, records show.

By Maya Kaufman, Patch Staff Patch Staff Badge
Mar 9, 2020 5:22 pm ET | Updated Mar 9, 2020 5:43 pm ET


A grayscale rendering obtained by Patch shows multiple skyscrapers on the waterfront site, the tallest of which would range from 70 to 76 stories, the source said.

TF Cornerstone, which won the rights to develop two city-owned sites on Anable Basin back in 2017, is planning a million-square-foot office building, co-founder Tom Elghanayan told The Real Deal at a conference last month.


more:
https://patch.com/new-york/astoria-l...mazon-hq2-site

[MonkeyRonin]

This seems relevant...

Toronto is emerging as a tech superpower as immigrants choose Canada over the US
Havovi Cooper and Dylan Bank
Jul 30, 2020, 5:05 PM

Since 2013, Toronto has added more tech jobs than any other place in North America, including Silicon Valley.

Silicon Valley's reputation as the world's leading tech hub could be in jeopardy because of the United States' restrictive immigration laws.

Tens of thousands of immigrant tech workers have flocked to Toronto in the past few years, making it the fastest growing tech hub in North America.

Many of them are deliberately avoiding the US as the Trump administration clamps down on immigration. In June, President Donald Trump temporarily suspended visas known as H-1B visas, which are awarded to thousands of skilled immigrant workers each year.

...

But while the US is closing doors, Canada has been rolling out the welcome mat. Since 2013, the number of tech jobs in Toronto has skyrocketed from about 148,000 to 228,000, an increase of 54%.

That's why Canada is trying to attract highly skilled foreign professionals through visa programs like the Global Talent Stream, launched in 2017. Immigration experts say it is like the H-1B program, but a lot better.

"It's a very fast processing time. It takes anywhere from roughly around two weeks to complete the first stage. And then the second stage, which is the work permit stage. It takes another two weeks. So you could be in Canada as quickly as a month," Blayne Kumar, founder of the immigration services company Bright Immigration, said.

https://www.businessinsider.com/toro...1b-visa-2020-7

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

This seems relevant...




https://www.businessinsider.com/toro...1b-visa-2020-7

only in our canadian states does moderating ssp count as a tech job.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

This seems relevant...




https://www.businessinsider.com/toro...1b-visa-2020-7

It's not about the number of tech jobs that makes Silicon Valley, it's about the innovation and ecosystem that takes ideas and turns them into global brands.

Good luck tho!

[The North One]

This is the most insufferable thread on SSP, congratulations to the participants.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

The piece sounds like it was written by a very bitter entrepreneur and investor transplant. To paraphrase a Gladys Knight & the Pips song, California proved too much for the man (too much for the man, he couldn't make it). Oh well. To him, I say, "Later, dude!"

Yeah I couldnt help but laugh at that.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

It's not about the number of tech jobs that makes Silicon Valley, it's about the innovation and ecosystem that takes ideas and turns them into global brands.

Good luck tho!

We all know that as does CBRE, one of the biggest and most respected firms in the industry. Those articles and news stories (and there have been lots of them) didn't arrive at their conclusions simply by looking at the number of tech jobs. According to the 2020 CBRE Tech Talent study, Toronto is 4th in Canada/US for the overall strength of their Tech Ecosytem. Not that it should matter, but they're a California based company. Lots of analysts recognize that Toronto is now a global centre for tech even if you haven't.

Perhaps you should do your homework before shooting your mouth off. That said, it's a default in your neck of the woods to assume no other place else could possibly measure up. It's no shock that you assume that the only possible explanation is that the tech jobs here have to be vastly inferior. Silicon Valley also thought it implausible that 'Collision' move to Toronto instead of its rightful and logical place (according to Californians): the Bay Area. I've linked the CBRE study although I suspect you're not interested in having your position challenged by the facts.

Silicon Valley is still #1 when it comes to tech job quality but we all know what happens to people who navel gaze. They assume their dominance is insurmountable and ridicule all challengers... usually at their own peril. No place remains #1 forever. At the end of the day it matters not one iota if SV notices what's transpiring beyond their bubble. Btw, I wouldn't be dismissive of London UK either. Their tech eco-system has made huge strides the last 20 years and like the Toronto-Waterloo Corridor, it has a very bright future.


https://www.cbre.us/research-and-rep...h-America-2020
https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/collis...to-canada.html

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

This seems relevant...

Well we all knew what the reaction would be. It's a competitive advantage if they're dismissive and condescending. They'll wake up one day and wonder what happened. Good on you for posting it anyway.

2020 CBRE Tech Talent Top 10

This WSJ video was from 3 years ago. Canada's tech momentum has only strengthened since. They mentioned the $4.5 billion market valuation of Shopify. That company is now worth $127 billion USD.

2017 Wall Street Journal segment

• Video Link

Canada isn't a one trick pony either. According to CBRE, 4 Canadian tech eco-systems now rank in the Top 16 in Canada/US: Toronto (4th), Vancouver (12th), Ottawa (14th), and Montreal (16th).

A glimpse into Montreal's Tech Eco-System

• Video Link

[suburbanite]

I'd like to try and claim at least a couple sustainable startups as our own before espousing any sort of tech dominance. Being the de-facto Canadian HQ location for any and all tech companies has its benefits for sure, but even Shopify (largest TSX tech company by market cap) is an Ottawa grad.

It still feels like the goal for most startups here is to reach that sweet spot where you're just dangerous enough that Microsoft is willing to buy you out for a hundred million, but there's little desire to swing for the fences.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Perhaps you should do your homework before shooting your mouth off.

Haha actually this is the most grotesquely misinformed statement in this thread:

Toronto is emerging as a tech superpower as immigrants choose Canada over the US

A tech 'superpower'? Lol really?

... although it's a default in your neck of the woods to assume no other place else could possibly measure up. It's no shock that you assume that the only possible explanation is that the tech jobs here have to be vastly inferior. Silicon Valley also thought it implausible that 'Collision' move to Toronto instead of its rightful and logical place (according to Californians): the Bay Area. I've linked the CBRE study although I suspect you're not interested in having your position challenged by the facts.

Blah blah blah I dont care.

Bay Area tech giants could **literally** cut off the ability of all people in the Golden Horseshoe to communicate to the rest of the world, at the flip of a switch.

That. is a 'Superpower'.

Call me when you can do that. In the meantime Yawns.

Silicon Valley is still #1 when it comes to tech quality but we all know what happens to people who navel gaze. They assume their dominance is insurmountable and ridicule all challengers... usually at their own peril. No place remains #1 forever.

Trust me, I prefer our pre-Thanos days.

Please. Take this crown.


https://www.cbre.us/research-and-rep...h-America-2020
https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/collis...to-canada.html[/QUOTE]

[suburbanite]

I remember being email-blasted by CBRE once for a similar type of research assessment and my first thought was "why is a commercial real estate firm trying to be the definitive voice on talent?" If anyone's worked in brokerage before you know that it's one of the most de-centralized industries in the world, meaning you're relying on local viewpoints and market analysis and it's almost impossible to create a standard assessment from one city to another let alone across countries.

I don't doubt that Toronto has a shit ton of tech companies leasing out space, our company has buildings practically filled with them. I also don't doubt we have a ton of tech grads, as we fall in the catchment area for like 75% of Canadian universities known for tech degrees. I'm more concerned with where the IP is being developed and therefore where the capital flows. That's how you get a true global headquarters and not a ~3-floor satellite office. In that sense, I don't see SF losing its crown anytime soon. Although you could make the argument that Vancouver getting a 1,000,000 SF amazon office due partially to immigration policy as opposed to local innovation is an even easier way to secure high income jobs.

One thing I've noticed, and also read in the industry publications, is how Toronto is a hotbed for AI research and startups. I swear I've done due diligence on 3 tech companies in the last year who are making AI legal document scanning software meant to replace hours of manually searching for precedence and whatnot. I want to see them grow into something substantial.

[homebucket]

Yeah I’d pump the brakes just a bit before declaring Toronto a tech superpower. I would think in order to be considered one, they should have at minimum one top dog tech company founded and headquartered in Toronto. As it stands currently, 3 out of the Big 5 (Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft) were born and bred in Silicon Valley. If you consider FAANG (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google), 4 out of the 5 are from Silicon Valley. If Toronto is able to build one of these types of companies, then I think it’d be more worthy of the tech superpower recognition.

That behind said, having more immigration of tech talent is only going to benefit Toronto, and it should be no surprise that it is rising in the ranks.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by homebucket

As it stands currently, 3 out of the Big 5 (Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft) were born and bred in Silicon Valley. If you consider FAANG (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google), 4 out of the 5 are from Silicon Valley. If Toronto is able to build one of these types of companies, then I think it’d be more worthy of the tech superpower recognition.

MS and Amazon both have deep funding roots in the Bay Area as well.

But you bring up a good point, the Valley's dominance in tech has also made the Bay Area the most consequential urban agglomeration in the world as far as equity capital.

US Companies, $200 Billion+ Market Capitalization
7 August 2020
Apple $1.900 Trillion(Bay Area)
Microsoft $1.611 Trillion(Seattle)
Amazon $1.586 Trillion(Seattle)
Google $1.017 Trillion(Bay Area)
Facebook $764 Billion(Bay Area)
Berkshire Hathaway $509 Billion(Omaha)
Visa $418 Billion(Bay Area)
Johnson & Johnson $391 Billion(NY)
Walmart $368 Billion(Fayetteville, AR)
Proctor and Gamble $330 Billion(Cincinnati)
Mastercard $328 Billion(NY)
JP Morgan Chase $302 Billion(NY)
United Health $301 Billion(Minneapolis)
Home Depot $292 Billion(Atlanta)
NVIDIA $275 Billion(Bay Area)
Tesla $270 Billion(Bay Area)
Verizon $251 Billion(NY)
Walt Disney $234 Billion(Los Angeles)
PayPal $233 Billion(Bay Area)
Bank of America $226 Billion(Charlotte)
Netflix $218 Billion(Bay Area)
Adobe $215 Billion(Bay Area)
AT&T $213 Billion(Dallas)
Intel $205 Billion(Bay Area)
Coca-Cola $205 Billion(Atlanta)
Merck $204 Billion(NY)
Cisco Systems $200 Billion(Bay Area)

11 of the 27 $200B+ companies are based in the Bay Area, with a combined current market value of $5.7 Trillion.

Which means now we're talking about tens of millions investment and retirement accounts directly impacted by happenings in the industry but more specifically in local companies.

So when we talk about 'tech', I dont think people realize the gravity of the topic.

This is why when people and reports and articles gleefully predict the Bay Area's downfall(theyve been doing it since the 90s btw) and/or being surpassed by somewhere else, Im always like *Yawns* good luck.

#Superpower

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Haha actually this is the most grotesquely misinformed statement in this thread:

Toronto is emerging as a tech superpower as immigrants choose Canada over the US

A tech 'superpower'? Lol really?

Apparently you missed the "emerging" part.

Over-dramatic headline aside, nothing actually contained in the article is untrue or misinformed. The point being that Trump's anti-immigration policies are hurting the US tech industry, and that - to the point of this thread - tech job growth in Toronto is actually outpacing all other North American cities.

Fair points above about there being generally less innovation happening within the Canadian market, however, if there continue to be barriers towards high-skilled talent emigrating to the US, that could change in the future.

In any case, just thought it was an interesting article given the title of this thread.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Apparently you missed the "emerging" part.

Over-dramatic headline aside, nothing actually contained in the article is untrue or misinformed. The point being that Trump's anti-immigration policies are hurting the US tech industry, and that - to the point of this thread - tech job growth in Toronto is actually outpacing all other North American cities.

Fair points above about there being generally less innovation happening within the Canadian market, however, if there continue to be barriers towards high-skilled talent emigrating to the US, that could change in the future.

In any case, just thought it was an interesting article given the title of this thread.

Yes the article is fine and kudos, I thought my initial reply was benign, yet I was told that I was shooting off at the mouth.

But whatever.

[iheartthed]

I think venture capital is the best measure of an "emerging tech superpower", and Toronto is not performing extraordinarily, IMO. Toronto ranks between Chicago and Austin for global share of VC funding. It's barely even ranks in North America's top 10:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...apital/429255/

[ocman]

The biggest thing about Silicon Valley that gets overlooked in these "Silicon Valley is over" articles is that there's a tech provinciality that exists in SV where they look after their own. And that's a powerful advantage that other cities don't have in tech. Two companies, one in London and a copycat follower in Palo Alto, the one in Palo Alto will be the one that breaks out. Not just because of funding, but because there's a localized "culture" where other Bay Area companies use that products and every other Bay Area company jumps on the bandwagon at lightning speed.

It's a weird tech phenomenon which isn't really done in other cities that couldn't care less about using the same teleconferencing platform that a neighboring tech company is using. And then once its ubiquitous in the bay, that's when the rest of the country uses it because its use and ubiquity among Silicon Valley legitimizes it. It's this circle of success and advantage that feeds itself. Cities thinking they can become Silicon Valley is like TikTokers thinking they can make it Hollywood.

[Pedestrian]

The Empire (State) struck back today with yet another piece in the Wall Street Journal about the demise of Silicon Valley and how all the techies are fleeing:

Remote Work Is Reshaping San Francisco, as Tech Workers Flee and Rents Fall

Many if not most of the examples given are families with kids. Families with kids have been escaping San Francisco for many decades and it is nothing at all new. The city has long had more dogs than kids and probably more vets than prediatricians, more dog walkers than teachers.

Frankly, under COVID, there's nothing to do in the city. The restaurants, bars, clubs, concerts, sports, opera, ballet, symphony etc etc are all closed. I don't go out much these days not for fear of COVID so much as there's no place to go and nothing to do. The things keeping me here are (a) good, brisk summer weather, (b) a serious COVID response from government that has kept the infection rate low and © the ready availability of delivery for almost anything.

But when COVID wanes, I predict several things: (1) When all the fun stuff reopens, the city will again be the lure for new graduates and tech bros it has long been, (2) companies letting their workers work from home will rediscover the value of office brainstorming and cross-fertilization among employees and companies, (3) the people who ran to Phoenix and other places with "normal" North American climates will fondly remember how great it was to live in Northern California.

I've seen this all before, most relevantly 2000-2003. Except then while the fun scene didn't die completely as now, it just got dull. But then there came a new generation of grads and entrepreneurs and life went on with real estate climbing to new highs. The same articles about it all being over were written back then, but Stanford and Berkeley didn't shut their doors (thought they temporarily have this time) and kept pumping out smart kids with new ideas and there were still rich guys in Los Altos Hills with plenty of money to fund them and life went on.

[craigs]

The people I know who haven't already left San Francisco (anecdote: the floor I lived on until March is now 75% vacant) are able to find fun things to do--biking the trails, picnics in Golden Gate Park, walks along the beach--but yeah, the rest of the fun stuff is shut down.

And with all the permanent closures of shops, bars, and restaurants, it will take a long time to fill all the vacancies after reopening. I mean, there were lots of vacancies even before COVID. It's going to be a long time before San Francisco regains its pre-COVID vibrancy, and I agree with the WSJ--it will never be the same. Que sera sera.