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  #2221  
Old Posted May 11, 2020, 7:41 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
We go on bike rides, walk around our neighborhood, and have been grilling on our deck almost every week.
My family has been doing the exact same things here in Lincoln Square.

Uprooting our whole lives right now and moving out to the burbs would be a rather drastic long-term solution to a very temporary problem.



But perspective has never been an American strong suit, so......
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 12, 2020 at 4:19 PM.
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  #2222  
Old Posted May 11, 2020, 11:18 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
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I don't know what'll happen, but I know for a fact people said the city (commercial/residential high rises) was over after 9/11 and we went on to see downtowns across the country surge in popularity. Humans need cities for social and economic reasons and the general demographic trend of this country is increasingly pro-urbanization.
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  #2223  
Old Posted May 12, 2020, 11:26 AM
Stockerzzz Stockerzzz is offline
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Illinois should report how many COVID deaths we're actually tested positive for COVID.

Elon Musk on Joe Rogan - 5/7/20:

Quote:
Elon Musk:

Something that would be helpful just to add from an informational level is when reporting Covid cases to separate out diagnosed with Covid versus had Covid like symptoms.

Joe Rogan: (01:27:27)
Yes.

Elon Musk: (01:27:29)
Because the list of symptoms that could be Covid at this point is like a mile long. So, it’s hard to, if you’re ill at all it’s like you could recover it. So, just to give people better information. Definitely diagnosed with Covid or had Covid like symptoms. We’re conflating those two so that it looks bigger than it is.

Then if somebody dies, was Covid a primary cause of the death or not? I mean, if somebody has Covid, gets eaten by a shark, we find their arm, their arm has Covid, it’s going to get recorded as a Covid death.
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  #2224  
Old Posted May 12, 2020, 2:25 PM
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^ We do have other ways of measuring the impact of Covid, it's just that the media and government PR folks have focused everyone on one stat for simplicity's sake. Plenty of data are publicly available to any journo, scientist, or citizen who wants to look.

Excess death studies do sort of get at that problem. They're not widely publicized because they can understate the problem to the lay observer. Deaths in Illinois from March 8-April 11 were up 13% from the average year. 13% doesn't seem like a lot but that still equates to thousands of people, especially over a longer period. The number of excess deaths recorded was more than twice the number of official Covid deaths, suggesting (but not proving) that more than half of the fatal Covid cases are not being reported.

Also, shelter-in-place is probably reducing the non-Covid deaths at the same time, due to fewer car accidents, less street crime, etc so even some of the deaths that are not considered "excess" because they fall within the normal range are still probably due to Covid.

So Musk's idea that the numbers are somehow inflated is just bullsh*t.... if anything the official numbers understate the problem, potentially by a factor of 2 or 3 or even higher. We just don't have a great way to get more accurate numbers... this is why the recommended social distancing and shutdown measures SEEM more severe than the numbers would require.
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Last edited by ardecila; May 12, 2020 at 2:36 PM.
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  #2225  
Old Posted May 12, 2020, 4:33 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
To the contrary, I think the suburbs are highly desirable right now.
Some of the amenities that make city living attractive are diminished for the next few months. So if someone is doing a cost/value proposition and is sitting on the edge, suburbs are more likely *right now* to come out ahead. But even then it's hard to see suburbs as "highly desirable." The value proposition in the short term is less unfavorable than it was last year.

Just because suburbs are cheap doesn't make them "desirable." If people don't need to be in cities, then they don't need to be in the suburbs either. I'd rather do email on a deck overlooking a lake than next to poorly constructed single family homes and the occasional dreary commercial strips and large commercial buildings on streets without sidewalks that have been retrofitted to maximize auto throughput and parking.
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  #2226  
Old Posted May 12, 2020, 7:45 PM
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i think you under-estimate how many people love suburbia. the entire american mindset is based on easy mindless consumerism, facilitated with the least amount of resistance possible. people are protesting right now at statehouses because they cant buy grass seed or whatever. the vast vast majority of these people are not on the verge of decamping to some off the grid self-sufficient based existence in a rural pocket of the country.
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  #2227  
Old Posted May 12, 2020, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^ We do have other ways of measuring the impact of Covid, it's just that the media and government PR folks have focused everyone on one stat for simplicity's sake. Plenty of data are publicly available to any journo, scientist, or citizen who wants to look.

Excess death studies do sort of get at that problem. They're not widely publicized because they can understate the problem to the lay observer. Deaths in Illinois from March 8-April 11 were up 13% from the average year. 13% doesn't seem like a lot but that still equates to thousands of people, especially over a longer period. The number of excess deaths recorded was more than twice the number of official Covid deaths, suggesting (but not proving) that more than half of the fatal Covid cases are not being reported.

....
You do not think that the increased death toll is not related to at least a 50% drop in people getting any kind of health care for any reason because of the shut down? I've seen people with heart attacks waiting for 3 days before they come to the hospital out of fear and now they are too late to fix with a stent in the Cath lab, their heart is too damaged and die from multi organ failure and not the virus. The media did an extreme job scaring the living crap out of at least 50% of the people in this country. These people in their 40-50's had 30 more years to live. But to get reimbursed they will be fudged into covid deaths to get federal money. The last I heard it was $39,000 reimbursement for every covid death.

The Shut down is killing more people the virus now at this point.
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Last edited by bnk; May 12, 2020 at 11:54 PM.
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  #2228  
Old Posted May 13, 2020, 3:19 AM
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I know that this isn't the best mindset to have and that it most definitely ignores what science has been telling us but it simply won't make sense over the next few weeks to maintain the lock down at the same level it is now because of our neighboring states. Indiana is really starting to open up with restaurants and bars opening up this week and more to come. Although I personally haven't been to Indiana in the past few weeks, family members there tell me it is way more relaxed than here. What is the point of having a stay at home order when we could have thousands of people crossing the Indiana border or Wisconsin border or Iowa border every day possibly bringing Covid-19? Now I understand that our state has way more cases than those states but my point still stands. We are a nation after all, not a collection of independent states (as much as Pritzker and Trump would like). Of course if we had had a nationwide lockdown (or at least better federal direction) than there wouldn't be any problems here but that's not the case.
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  #2229  
Old Posted May 13, 2020, 11:27 AM
Stockerzzz Stockerzzz is offline
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^ Exactly. Plus, lots of people are starting to ignore the stay at home order in Chicago.
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  #2230  
Old Posted May 13, 2020, 2:27 PM
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people can ignore it all they want. where are they going to go? restaurants/bars/sports/concerts/outdoor festivals+gatherings are the primary draws in the summer, none of that will be happening.
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  #2231  
Old Posted May 13, 2020, 8:40 PM
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Willie Wilson claims 100 churches will hold services this Sunday “in defiance” of Pritzker’s EO

If 100 churches can re-open then restaurants should be allowed to re-open.
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  #2232  
Old Posted May 14, 2020, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk View Post
You do not think that the increased death toll is not related to at least a 50% drop in people getting any kind of health care for any reason because of the shut down? I've seen people with heart attacks waiting for 3 days before they come to the hospital out of fear and now they are too late to fix with a stent in the Cath lab, their heart is too damaged and die from multi organ failure and not the virus. The media did an extreme job scaring the living crap out of at least 50% of the people in this country. These people in their 40-50's had 30 more years to live. But to get reimbursed they will be fudged into covid deaths to get federal money. The last I heard it was $39,000 reimbursement for every covid death.

The Shut down is killing more people the virus now at this point.
No, because even if the shutdown is causing medical deaths that are not Covid-related - and possibly increasing suicides - it's also decreasing certain kinds of deaths.

Certain kinds of deaths are down - as I mentioned, car accidents, street/gang crime, shootings, etc.
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  #2233  
Old Posted May 14, 2020, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk View Post
You do not think that the increased death toll is not related to at least a 50% drop in people getting any kind of health care for any reason because of the shut down? I've seen people with heart attacks waiting for 3 days before they come to the hospital out of fear and now they are too late to fix with a stent in the Cath lab, their heart is too damaged and die from multi organ failure and not the virus. The media did an extreme job scaring the living crap out of at least 50% of the people in this country. These people in their 40-50's had 30 more years to live. But to get reimbursed they will be fudged into covid deaths to get federal money. The last I heard it was $39,000 reimbursement for every covid death.

The Shut down is killing more people the virus now at this point.
I do not think that people are not getting 'any kind of healthcare" . I have been in for my regular check up and for a minor procedure in office. I was administered a covid test in office. Your one off example where you claim to have "seen people wait 3 days with a heart attack" before they come in to hospital for treatment is ridiculous hyperbole. The media is not scaring me- what scares me is armed militia taunting people who are following the directives from healthcare officials.
And you statement that the shut down is killing more people....is yet another example of uninformed opinion being mistaken for facts.
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  #2234  
Old Posted May 14, 2020, 9:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs View Post
I do not think that people are not getting 'any kind of healthcare" . I have been in for my regular check up and for a minor procedure in office. I was administered a covid test in office. Your one off example where you claim to have "seen people wait 3 days with a heart attack" before they come in to hospital for treatment is ridiculous hyperbole. The media is not scaring me- what scares me is armed militia taunting people who are following the directives from healthcare officials.
And you statement that the shut down is killing more people....is yet another example of uninformed opinion being mistaken for facts.
Thank you for posting some common sense and not overblown hyperbole. Much appreciated!

Aaron (Glowrock)
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  #2235  
Old Posted May 15, 2020, 5:40 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs View Post
I do not think that people are not getting 'any kind of healthcare" . I have been in for my regular check up and for a minor procedure in office. I was administered a covid test in office. Your one off example where you claim to have "seen people wait 3 days with a heart attack" before they come in to hospital for treatment is ridiculous hyperbole. The media is not scaring me- what scares me is armed militia taunting people who are following the directives from healthcare officials.
And you statement that the shut down is killing more people....is yet another example of uninformed opinion being mistaken for facts.
It's not hyperbole dude, there have been multiple studies showing that hospitalizations for heart attacks and strokes, for example, are wayyyyy down since the lockdown began. Social distancing does not reduce stroke or cardio risks. This means that patients experiencing mild symptoms of these events are not going to the hospital or maybe not even realizing it happened to them. In the case of stroke something like 70% of them are first identified by a family member or friend, not the paitent themselves, because the symptoms (particularly the earliest ones that give the most warning to accelerate treatment) tend to disorient the patient or be unnoticeable to them.
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  #2236  
Old Posted May 17, 2020, 1:56 AM
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Chicago's ubiquitous parkways sure have come in handy for social distancing picnics with neighbors, at least from what I've been seeing around Lincoln Square.

Who knew that a somewhat forgettable built environment design decision made in the 19th century would pay such huge dividends toward some semblance of social normalcy during a 21st century pandemic.

Well played, city planners of old.
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The world that we used to know, People tell me it don't turn no more
The places we used to go, Familiar faces that ain't smilin' like before
The time of our time has come and gone, I fear we been waiting too long
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  #2237  
Old Posted May 21, 2020, 10:07 PM
BrinChi BrinChi is offline
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Can someone with access please post any highlights from this article? Thanks!

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/resi...les-boom-rolls
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  #2238  
Old Posted Today, 1:08 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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My sentiments continue to align with the Chicago Tribune editorial board on these matters:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...oja-story.html
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The US Constitution is slowly eroding into toilet paper. Thanks to the Covid-19 manufactured crisis
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