Winnipeg Valour - CanPL

[blueandgoldguy]

Ideally, there would be $10 million or so invested in the Waverley Soccer Complex to bring up the standards. Tear down the cheap wooden benches on the west side of the field and build a main concrete/steel grandstand with 12 -15 rows and 5,000 or so seats. Have locker rooms and offices under the stands, a few permanent concessions and washrooms. On the east side put up 2000 cheap semi-temp stands (supporters section?) with another 1000 or so in each endzone (semi-temp type seats again) or maybe corporate tents like the Bombers had in the south end zone at old Canad Inns Stadium.

A stadium seating close to 10,000 would provide a much better atmosphere as it would actually be feasible to sellout vs. IGF which will appear empty with a half empty lower bowl.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Ideally, there would be $10 million or so invested in the Waverley Soccer Complex to bring up the standards. Tear down the cheap wooden benches on the west side of the field and build a main concrete/steel grandstand with 12 -15 rows and 5,000 or so seats. Have locker rooms and offices under the stands, a few permanent concessions and washrooms. On the east side put up 2000 cheap semi-temp stands (supporters section?) with another 1000 or so in each endzone (semi-temp type seats again) or maybe corporate tents like the Bombers had in the south end zone at old Canad Inns Stadium.

A stadium seating close to 10,000 would provide a much better atmosphere as it would actually be feasible to sellout vs. IGF which will appear empty with a half empty lower bowl.

If you're the bombers trying to pay off a stadium, spending 10 million on a stadium you wouldn't own for your new soccer team when you already have adequate facilities at the stadium you own makes no financial sense, regardless if the fan experience wpuld be a little better at a smaller stadium

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Well yes, I don't deny the numbers you posted. But the point is that if the U of M was located 150 km south and playing D-II NCAA football, they might be drawing 4 thousand fans a game instead of the 2 thousand they currently get.

It's not enough just to put on a college team on the field, throw the stadium doors open and expect you're going to get 60,000 people a game.

You should go to a game at UND or NDSU. It's a hell of an experience, especially Fargo on gameday. I don't know if there's a Winnipeg equivalent, basically a whiteout party for every NDSU football game.

A school the size of U of M would draw a lot more than 4000 south of the border. The schools you're talking about drawing under 10,000 for football are small schools.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by WildCake

If you're the bombers trying to pay off a stadium, spending 10 million on a stadium you wouldn't own for your new soccer team when you already have adequate facilities at the stadium you own makes no financial sense, regardless if the fan experience wpuld be a little better at a smaller stadium

Exactly, many posters here don't seem to get it that the Bombers see this as a revenue-generating tool for IGF. The atmosphere will be made by the fans - soccer crowds and fans are much different. If it generates 5-6,000 fans it will be a good atmosphere.

[Goldie]

The 2026 World Cup was awarded to Canada/U.S./Mexico today.

But y'know what? ZERO games will be held in Winnipeg because the Blue Bombers (you know, the owners of Winnipeg Valour soccer team) couldn't have been bothered to apply for one.

It's unbelievable how bad/lazy this ownership group is.

What was the point of building IGF if you don't use every resource available to land world-class events?!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Goldie

The 2026 World Cup was awarded to Canada/U.S./Mexico today.

But y'know what? ZERO games will be held in Winnipeg because the Blue Bombers (you know, the owners of Winnipeg Valour soccer team) couldn't have been bothered to apply for one.

It's unbelievable how bad/lazy this ownership group is.

What was the point of building IGF if you don't use every resource available to land world-class events?!

What is with your vendetta against the Bombers?

Hosting World Cup games here would have cost a fortune in infrastructure upgrades. (See here: http://winnipegsun.com/2017/08/15/wi...3-9bf713bdb305 ) Clearly Soccer Manitoba and the municipal/provincial government didn't have the stomach for that. The Bombers can't host World Cup games at IGF without them.

FYI Vancouver, Chicago and Minneapolis also didn't bother with the 2026 World Cup.

[Kronos]

Originally Posted by Goldie

The 2026 World Cup was awarded to Canada/U.S./Mexico today.

But y'know what? ZERO games will be held in Winnipeg because the Blue Bombers (you know, the owners of Winnipeg Valour soccer team) couldn't have been bothered to apply for one.

It's unbelievable how bad/lazy this ownership group is.

What was the point of building IGF if you don't use every resource available to land world-class events?!

Many other cities decided not to apply or withdraw their application to host games for the FIFA 2026 tournament including Vancouver, Chicago, Minneapolis and Phoenix given FIFA’s overbearing demands on host cities plus cost uncertainties

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Goldie

The 2026 World Cup was awarded to Canada/U.S./Mexico today.

But y'know what? ZERO games will be held in Winnipeg because the Blue Bombers (you know, the owners of Winnipeg Valour soccer team) couldn't have been bothered to apply for one.

It's unbelievable how bad/lazy this ownership group is.

What was the point of building IGF if you don't use every resource available to land world-class events?!

When the bid was announced over a year ago they outright said it wasn't a potential spot due to size – there was no chance it was going to happen here. FIFAs absolute minimum capacity for first round is 40,000 for group stage, and 80,000 for opening games and finals.

The smallest venue is BMO field which is expanding to 45,000, but it was actually built to handle expansion and extra people on the concourses. Our temporary "extra seating" setup is a joke. Absolutely doesn't work at all – NHL saw how awful it was at the Grey Cup and nixed it for Winter Classic.

The next smallest one is in Mexico at 48,000, while all others are over 50k, with almost all American ones over 70k+.

Vancouver and several other dropped out because they didn't see any potential for real profit due to the ridiculous security and operations costs FIFA imposes.

It's been pretty obvious from the get-go that this is essentially an American bid, but they included Mexico & Canada as soccer just isn't as big in USA/Canada as everywhere else, so it makes sense to bring the continent together.

[esquire]

^ For what it's worth I sat in the temp seats at the 2015 Grey Cup and it seemed fine... no worse or no better than your typical temp seating setup. I can't imagine that the temp seating issue would have been a big problem. The stadium was designed to go up to 40K with temp seats.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ For what it's worth I sat in the temp seats at the 2015 Grey Cup and it seemed fine... no worse or no better than your typical temp seating setup. I can't imagine that the temp seating issue would have been a big problem. The stadium was designed to go up to 40K with temp seats.

I was there too. The seats themselves were fine but the concourses can barely handle 25,000 people already, before you lose a ton of space from the bleachers. And it was out-of-control cramped and impossible to move around, concessions were painfully slow. Not to mention you had to walk and line up under scaffolding to get to the vendors and washrooms under the seats, and it looked horrific.

There's no way the press box here would be adequate with it's vinyl siding and tiny plastic windows, and no way in HELL FIFA would allow that dangling wood camera box under the jumbotron like they've done before. Plus, the grass. The amount BBB/WFC would have to spend to bring it up to standards would be so cost prohibitive. Plus, FIFA takes control of the venue, and essentially "rents" it – so we wouldn't make nearly as much off concessions or tickets as normal.

[esquire]

^ But every venue would have its share of fixes and improvements. There will be a fortune spent on the Big O, probably a ton on BMO and no doubt a fair bit of money as well on Commonwealth. IGF would have been no different.

The temp seating arrangement wasn't perfect but it was workable. I was able to use the washrooms and get food without any trouble. With some extra money they could have done an even better job... perhaps provided a bit more crush space outside the stadium walls, that sort of thing.

[Kronos]

http:////www.google.ca/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5782369/amp/Temporary-stand-Ekaterinburg-Arena-completed-World-Cup.html

The stadium in Ekaterinburg which is being used to host games during FIFA Russia 2018, usually seats 23000, was expanded to just 35000 with temporary stands outside the stadium.....think IGF would be fine considering that wacky set-up!

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ But every venue would have its share of fixes and improvements. There will be a fortune spent on the Big O, probably a ton on BMO and no doubt a fair bit of money as well on Commonwealth. IGF would have been no different.

The temp seating arrangement wasn't perfect but it was workable. I was able to use the washrooms and get food without any trouble. With some extra money they could have done an even better job... perhaps provided a bit more crush space outside the stadium walls, that sort of thing.

BMO was literally built for soccer and has a grass field already; Olympic Stadium was also built largely with soccer in mind; Commonwealth Stadium can be converted to grass much easier than hear because it was built with natural earth in the centre and has irrigation in place.

Originally Posted by Kronos

http:////www.google.ca/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5782369/amp/Temporary-stand-Ekaterinburg-Arena-completed-World-Cup.html

The stadium in Ekaterinburg which is being used to host games during FIFA Russia 2018, usually seats 23000, was expanded to just 35000 with temporary stands outside the stadium.....think IGF would be fine considering that wacky set-up!

First off, this was approved over a decade ago, so FIFA has clearly changed the rules since then. Also, the stands are being placed outside the stadium proper, with dedicated concourse space. There's no loss of space in the stadium from the stands, and the extra people are being accommodated with extra space.

You also have to factor in what's available in one country – Russia – vs. a whole continent. There are dozens and dozens of venues much better suited as WC venues in North America than IGF, it's laughable to think we even had a chance.

I don't even know why we'd want it – it's be proven over and over how corrupt FIFA is and how most host cities almost never recoup the costs of hosting vs. the "economic benefit" of hosting. Even if we were selected, we'd probably get less than 5 games – if that.

[esquire]

^ If the money is spent, there's no reason there couldn't be extra temporary concourse space added at IGF. It's not that big a challenge IMO. Neither is grass, putting in a temporary natural turf surface wouldn't be any trickier here than at Commonwealth or Olympic.

And FIFA's "rules" are more like a kid's wish list that isn't always grounded in reality. FIFA once said you needed 12 venues until Qatar managed to whittle it down to 8 or 9.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Kronos

http:////www.google.ca/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5782369/amp/Temporary-stand-Ekaterinburg-Arena-completed-World-Cup.html

The stadium in Ekaterinburg which is being used to host games during FIFA Russia 2018, usually seats 23000, was expanded to just 35000 with temporary stands outside the stadium.....think IGF would be fine considering that wacky set-up!

I've seen that before. In my opinion that looks tacky as hell and would be embarrassed if IGF looked like some kind of frankenstadium on the world stage. I am of the mindset that you either do it right or don't do it at all. I am fine with not being one of the World Cup cities. I am not interested in the city taking out a huge mortgage for maybe 3 games and I am definitely not interested in Winnipeg driving around in a Ferrari/Fiero kit car for the world to see.

[esquire]

^ Personally I think IGF could handle it... the stadium looks fine on TV with the extra seats and nowhere near as weird as the Ekaterinburg venue. But the overall costs are too exorbitant and for that reason I'm fine with Winnipeg not being a host city.

On the temp seats thing, these are really just two totally different things

[Biff]

Do you recall what the temp seating at IGF brought the attendance to?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

Do you recall what the temp seating at IGF brought the attendance to?

Official attendance at the 2015 Grey Cup was 36,634. It looked like there were a few empty seats in where I was sitting, but I suppose for official purposes it was a sellout.

IGF was going to be outfitted to hold approximately 40,000 with temp seating at both ends, but Grey Cup ticket sales were cold that year with the Bombers being basement-dwellers and it became obvious early on that the game wouldn't sell out. That's when they scrapped the north side temp seats and just went with the south side only.

As I recall from before the stadium was finished, the proponents hyped the fact that the stadium would be expandable to 40,000 specifically. Although given that some permanent seats have since been removed to make way for viewing decks, loges, etc., I'm not sure they could still hit that number without finding ways that weren't initially contemplated to jam in more temporary seating.

[buzzg]

Yes the stadium can be expanded to 40,000 (minus what they removed last year) if stands are put in both endzones. However there's just absolutely no way that it could handle that many people in the concourse considering the stands for GC swallowed up almost the entire south concourse. They literally painted directional traffic lines on the ground and had ushers telling people they couldn't stop. Then the concession lines got backed up and in the way.

IMO the only way they should EVER expand seating again would be to use the concourse outside and/or create separate gathering areas outside the arena for these seats, and not allow people inside.

[esquire]

^ That can be done though, I don't think the 2015 Grey Cup represents the greatest possible design for providing temporary concourse space. It can be improved upon. It would be a tight squeeze for sure, but IGF can handle 40K.