DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[rds70]

Originally Posted by CPVLIVE

It mentioned a 25,000 sq ft site, meaning they could use the entire site and only go 17 stories plus any parking.

If 50% or more of the building is residential than the FAR increases to 20:1. As you mentioned parking is not included in the FAR number.

[PhilipDDG]

Originally Posted by CastleScott

^ Awesome pics Matt!!



Yeah your right 425,663 isn't all that much for a supertall and its kinda sad that another wasted opportunity could be at hand although its good another parking lot could be on its way out (I think I could count on one hand the surface parking lots that zoning allows a possible supertall on-other than that you would have to demo something historically significant which would lead to bigtime legal challenges).

As for a new Denver tallest-my gut feeling is that it might not be much over 800 or 850 mostly because of what the market dictates (Denver getting a 1000 footer is about as much a given as Sacramento getting a Ford or General Motors high-tech electric car/light truck plant-yes Sacramento and the state is courting Ford, GM and even Chrysler with big $$$ insentives although I believe that those plants are likely to go to sites near the new Tesla plant near Reno NV).



Yes I think the site your talking about is where the old Kenmark Hotel one stood just across the ally from the Denver Club Building...

That's the other site I was thinking of. I've wondered if combining that site with the lot directly south/west of it (currently a nondescript building that abuts the Masonic Building) would provide enough land for the base of something on par with the current three tallest towers--or if such a combination is even necessary.

And I remember, too, that in the mid to late 80s someone proposed an office building for that site that would have been a tower with a difference: 20-30 stories tall but with a relatively small footprint so that each floor could have a single occupant. That way, even a small company could present an impressive face to clients by the mere fact that it occupied an entire floor of a downtown tower. Interesting idea for the time. Too bad the developer couldn't follow through with the plan. A rendering of the tower (in moon-lit glory, if I remember correctly) was published in a now defunct Colorado business magazine. Maybe someone out there knows where that image is hiding?

[CPVLIVE]

A few photos from this weekend of the Confluence -

[CastleScott]

^ Great ones CPVLIVE, that last pic the Confluence looks much higher than a 371 footer-more like a 450+ footer. Man Speer has a nice wall on the southside with those new buildings..

[RyanD]

Two tower crane bases spotted at 21st and Welton!

21st & Welton Apartments

[RyanD]

Hmmm... I don't think I ever shared these... Enjoy!


Union_Station_Dusk_Skyline_2 by Ryan Dravitz, on Flickr


Union_Station_Dusk_Skyline copy by Ryan Dravitz, on Flickr

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by twister244

While we are on the topic of speculation.....

Has anyone heard of a condo project at the corner of 19th and Arapahoe? Possibly where the Greyhound bus station is at.......

This is the only thing at that corner I'm aware of:

Site Address and Description
1901 Arapahoe St - 2016PM0000770 - Paradise Living

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by rds70

If 50% or more of the building is residential than the FAR increases to 20:1. As you mentioned parking is not included in the FAR number.

Quick math:

• say 10 floors of parking (pretty standard for large developments lately) at 25k sqft (size of lot). Parking not included in calculations.
  
• then point tower of let's say 62 floors at 8k sqft,
  
• (8k per floor x 62 floors) = 496k sqft
  
• 496k total sqft / 25k site sqft = ~20:1 FAR (19.84:1)

So, at 20:1 FAR with a pretty large parking podium and small floor plates you COULD get to 70+ floors.

At 8k sqft per condo floor, maybe 2-8 units? I've seen 7k sqft floor plates. 111 W 57th St in NYC is like 5k sqft.

Someone please check my math.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

This is the only thing at that corner I'm aware of:

Ok.

So, I may have caught wind of something being proposed here that is early in the proposal stage with the city...... I think I know what this is now.

[rml213]

Careful..I'm not sure how you know what you know but you should keep this under wraps for now..

Originally Posted by twister244

While we are on the topic of speculation.....

Has anyone heard of a condo project at the corner of 19th and Arapahoe? Possibly where the Greyhound bus station is at.......

[semiurban]

Originally Posted by rml213

Careful..I'm not sure how you know what you know but you should keep this under wraps for now..

Why don't you both DM me what you know and then I will know if you know the same thing each other knows.

[DenverPoke]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Quick math:

• say 10 floors of parking (pretty standard for large developments lately) at 25k sqft (size of lot). Parking not included in calculations.
  
• then point tower of let's say 62 floors at 8k sqft,
  
• (8k per floor x 62 floors) = 496k sqft
  
• 496k total sqft / 25k site sqft = ~20:1 FAR (19.84:1)

So, at 20:1 FAR with a pretty large parking podium and small floor plates you COULD get to 70+ floors.

At 8k sqft per condo floor, maybe 2-8 units? I've seen 7k sqft floor plates. 111 W 57th St in NYC is like 5k sqft.

Someone please check my math.

We will get ALoft v2.0 with a ground floor 7-11 and like it!

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Quick math:

• say 10 floors of parking (pretty standard for large developments lately) at 25k sqft (size of lot). Parking not included in calculations.
• then point tower of let's say 62 floors at 8k sqft,
• (8k per floor x 62 floors) = 496k sqft
• 496k total sqft / 25k site sqft = ~20:1 FAR (19.84:1)

So, at 20:1 FAR with a pretty large parking podium and small floor plates you COULD get to 70+ floors.

At 8k sqft per condo floor, maybe 2-8 units? I've seen 7k sqft floor plates. 111 W 57th St in NYC is like 5k sqft.

Someone please check my math.

The math checks out.

What about transfer right for undeveloped floor area? The way I read the zoning code, which is probably wrong, is that you can transfer undeveloped floor area from one parcel to another up to a maximum multiplier of six for a zoning lot. So, one could boost a parcel from 25K to 50K in regards to FAR and have 1M sq ft to work with while still falling under the max 20:1 FAR ratio.

[The Dirt]

Awesome photos CPVLIVE and RyanD!

[CastleScott]

Great update and pics too Ryan!! Welton is really going to have a nice street canyon once those projects are in and its gonna be a nice sight to see then. Was your drone up around 250 feet for those Union Station pics? I've been busy getting use to my drone and I hope to have some pics of downtown Sacramento sometime soon..

[derek.berardi]

Sorry to let the cat out of the bag, but this is totally public domain. They have a website for that project. Annnnnnd.....holy shit if this happens! Merry Christmas everybody!





http://paradiselivingdenver.com

[twister244]

Welp, there you go. So, someone showed me a rendering of this project (different than what's on the website, but definitely this project) a few weeks ago. When I saw it, I was completely floored because I follow this thread, along with local news, DenverInfill, etc. But, when I tried searching online, I couldn't find a thing on this project, which made me super skeptical. That's why I was poking at it a bit, to see if it would get any sort of reaction from folks. Maybe I should have been a bit more subtle, but I couldn't just come out and say "Hey, I hear there's two 40-story condo towers proposed at 19th and Arapahoe!".

[derek.berardi]

Not sure why there's a need to be subtle when they've clearly put this in the public view. They're actively marketing the units and they've got no discretion when the two keywords we know are the URL

[Denver]

Originally Posted by twister244

Welp, there you go. So, someone showed me a rendering of this project (different than what's on the website, but definitely this project) a few weeks ago. When I saw it, I was completely floored because I follow this thread, along with local news, DenverInfill, etc. But, when I tried searching online, I couldn't find a thing on this project, which made me super skeptical. That's why I was poking at it a bit, to see if it would get any sort of reaction from folks. Maybe I should have been a bit more subtle, but I couldn't just come out and say "Hey, I hear there's two 40-story condo towers proposed at 19th and Arapahoe!".

Sorry to be buzz-killington but I am not convinced for a few reasons:

1) The "25%" off for a $20,000 down payment. This seems like a pretty steep discount attempted to get a bank interested in the building by getting pre-sales. However, having to offer this type of discount would most likely scare off any bank.

2) This is a major project. An unknown developer would not be able to undertake this type of project without a major partner (such as EastWest). I do not see any evidence of such partnership.

3) It does not look like the POC for the building has any development experience.

If I had to guess, who ever is proposing this has the land under contract and is trying to piece a deal together that they will then try to sell to an outfit that can handle this type of project. Until I see more concrete info, I am filing this in with El Jebel.

[Denver]

Now if you want a new condo project that is very likely happening (although decidedly less sexy), then the Oprpheus at 2835 W. 24th Ave in Jefferson park is for you.

https://theorpheus.info/



Sales are slated to begin in April 2017, The Orpheus is made up of 26 one-bedroom luxury units ranging from 633 to 871 square feet in size and priced starting at $259,000. This project is being developed by the same team who did Backyard on Blake. While not the best looking or coolest project, this is the type of project Denver needs. Sub $400k for-sale buildings!!!!!!!