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  #41  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2012, 3:58 AM
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If Hamilton gets a casino downtown, that's got to hurt Brantford's.

I'm skeptical that Brantford Laurier will ever get to 15,000. You would really need to be scraping the bottom of the barrel student wise for that.
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  #42  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2012, 9:36 PM
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Do you guys support a referendum?

Personally I think council is getting ahead of themselves. We don't even know the future of Flamboro Downs. If the owners said straight up yes they are closing the doors than perhaps vote on holding a referendum.

What are you going to say on the referendum? Do you support a casino in Hamilton? Well we already have one.
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  #43  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2012, 1:07 AM
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Most of the neighbourhood associations including the one I am in are opposed to a casino. I don't believe it is consistent with our goals for downtown Hamilton - to make it more livable and viable for business - with the one exception that it would create jobs.

Losing our high school and gaining a casino does not seem like progress for me. We are supposed to make downtown more attractive as a place to live including for families. Most people would not want to live near a casino.

That said, I am open to other arguments and would consider any evidence pointing to the positive benefits a casino could have. I want to see people including myself come to their positions because of evidence, rather than moral objections.
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  #44  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2012, 2:33 AM
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Paul Wilson's article on a casino demonstrated good evidence of positive development. Branford redirected their share from the casino towards retrofitting buildings and getting post secondary institutions. We would basically have another Future Fund, expect the the money doesn't dry up.

From what I understand the School Board will build another High School in the downtown area.
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2012, 11:55 AM
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I could understand a neighborhood association opposing a casino if it was being proposed for a residential area, but that isn't the case here. A casino should be part of a hotel entertainment complex in a commercial area of a city, as is the case in Niagara Falls, Windsor and Brantford for example. It anchors and attracts tourism-related business, something sorely needed for the city.

I also would like people to look at this objectively rather than adopting a knee-jerk opposition to the idea. As Steeltown has mentioned, the mayor of Brantford is on the record as saying he was wrong to oppose the casino there back when it was originally proposed, now that he sees the positive impact it has had on Brantford. He specifically mentions that there has been no uptick in policing or social services costs attributable to the casino, making baseless the fear that a casino would increase crime and social addiction there. I also like how city revenue from the Brantford casino is used to fund downtown improvement projects and would like to see the same applied here should the city proceed with a casino.

The push for a referendum is wrong-headed. The intentions may be honorable, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Shall we have a referendum on LRT and two-way conversions as well? Councillors were elected to make the decisions, not defer them to isolate themselves politically from potential hot potatoes.
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2012, 12:25 PM
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I support keeping the casino in Flamborough, possibly expanding it to include tables.

I'm honestly on the fence about having it downtown. I read the article from Brantford, and it gave me hope, but I worry it will turn into another Bingo. I'd be surprised if the bingo hall caused an increase in crime, but it's certainly not what I'd call "desirable development."

Someone else said they would support it if it meant getting the Royal Connaught up and running again. I agree with that.

A referendum without details is putting the cart before the horse.
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
From what I understand the School Board will build another High School in the downtown area.
My understanding was the new "downtown" school would be somewhere in the East End, but I don't think there's any location set up or anything. The board still needs provincial approval for everything still, right?
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Last edited by mattgrande; Sep 20, 2012 at 12:27 PM. Reason: typo
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2012, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mattgrande View Post
I'm honestly on the fence about having it downtown. I read the article from Brantford, and it gave me hope, but I worry it will turn into another Bingo. I'd be surprised if the bingo hall caused an increase in crime, but it's certainly not what I'd call "desirable development."
Given what we have heard thus far, it's pretty safe to say there is absolutely no risk of another "Bingo" downtown. There simply is no comparison between the two. First off, a downtown casino like the one conceptualized by the Mercantis is one element in a hotel and entertainment complex. It's not a standalone business, it will be contained within a hotel complex with convention facilities, restaurants, shopping and theatres. If you wanted to compare it to something, think less Bingo and more Niagara Fallsview or Caesars Windsor
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2012, 4:46 PM
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Branford redirected their share from the casino towards retrofitting buildings and getting post secondary institutions. We would basically have another Future Fund, expect the the money doesn't dry up.
That would be a nice carrot to get downtown support, but would that have a chance in hell of happening here? I can just imagine the indignation from certain councillors that the money would be used on downtown. Flamborough was angry enough at sharing their slot revenue after amalgamation - then they lose their racetrack for a new casino that doesn't pay them at all? Not saying it's a bad idea, but I think there are less acrimonious ways to pump money into downtown.
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  #50  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2012, 6:00 PM
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Either way we'll get more money or we'll lose $4 million, money we will have to find from cuts or raising property taxes.
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  #51  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2012, 1:22 AM
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Hamilton casino question can't wait, OLG says

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/stor...eferendum.html

The Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation (OLG) says it's now or never if Hamilton wants a casino.

Larry Flynn, senior vice-president of gaming, told councillors in a letter Thursday that the OLG can't wait until 2014 for a referendum, nor will it help the city fund one before then.

The OLG “will continue to move forward to implement our modernization plan and related procurement activities,” Flynn wrote.

“We remain optimistic that Hamilton council will consider its options and make a decision in a timely way.”

Flynn appeared before the city's general issues committee earlier this week. The committee asked him to look into extending the OLG's lease at Flamboro Downs — where it currently operates 801 slots — beyond March 2013.

Doing this would give the city time to put the casino question on the ballot during the 2014 municipal election.

But Flynn told councillors Thursday that there is no money to help the city with a referendum, and that the OLG needs a timely answer. “We're not able to suspend the implementation,” spokesperson Tony Bitonti said.
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  #52  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2012, 3:05 AM
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Let it go. This deserves no money being thrown at it.
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  #53  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2012, 2:57 PM
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Let it go. This deserves no money being thrown at it.
Couldn't agree more. A casino is that last thing downtown needs.
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  #54  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2012, 3:09 PM
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Since the province has undertaken this reorganization in order to improve its cut of the action (already 75%), and since the financial risk will now be borne by third parties in the private sector, and since the province is sending mixed signals about financial support to impacted racetracks and agricultural communities as well as greatly increasing the number of gaming competitors in a market that is already ailing in some sectors, what guarantee do host municipalities have that their take will be any higher than seen under the Slots at Racetracks program (ie. 5% of slots revenue)? Could it not be the same, or even lower? Would we see any cut of new games? Isn't the whole formula up for discussion at this point?
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  #55  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2012, 9:15 PM
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Couldn't agree more. A casino is that last thing downtown needs.
Hamilton shouldn't be the one chasing after a casino, the casinos should be chasing after US. That's the way I've always seen it. When you put yourself in a desperate position, you get taken advantage of and the end product is inferior. Thus far OLG seems to be taking a "take it if you want it. If not, go take a walk" approach. This should be a "We really want to see a casino in Hamilton. We think it would make a great fit. How can we make this work for you?". We shouldn't be begging for scraps.
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  #56  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2012, 5:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt602 View Post
Hamilton shouldn't be the one chasing after a casino, the casinos should be chasing after US. That's the way I've always seen it. When you put yourself in a desperate position, you get taken advantage of and the end product is inferior. Thus far OLG seems to be taking a "take it if you want it. If not, go take a walk" approach. This should be a "We really want to see a casino in Hamilton. We think it would make a great fit. How can we make this work for you?". We shouldn't be begging for scraps.
We are not chasing the casino. The province has asked if we want one, we just have to say yes or no.

Flamboro is going to be closed whether the city likes it or not so why wouldn't the city just say yes and let the province find an operator for a new casino. It will not cost this city a dime to say yes. If they say no it will cost us 4 million a year in revenue.
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  #57  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2012, 2:21 AM
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Big surprise the two most militant socialists on Council (McHattie and Merulla) voted against a casino.
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  #58  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2012, 11:31 PM
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Big surprise the two most militant socialists on Council (McHattie and Merulla) voted against a casino.
big surprise the forum drunk made an unintelligible comment on SSP
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  #59  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2012, 1:57 AM
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big surprise the forum drunk made an unintelligible comment on SSP
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  #60  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2012, 12:55 PM
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Council not ready to drop casino talk
Revenue and location questions still to be answered

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...op-casino-talk

Brian McHattie and Sam Merulla may be ready to walk away from the casino conversation, but others on council say their proposed motion to do so is premature.

“I think it’s knee-jerk,” said Ward 8 councillor Terry Whitehead. “I think the reality is we’re not doing taxpayers any favours by taking such a position.”

Whitehead wants to know what kind of revenue the city could take in from a new facility before he makes any decisions.

But time is of the essence after the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation (OLG) rejected council’s request last week to delay making a casino decision until after a referendum in the 2014 municipal election.

The OLG wants a decision ASAP.

McHattie and Merulla reacted to that information late last week by announcing they would move that council reject a casino now.

But Ward 12 councillor Lloyd Ferguson says it’s still too early to decide one way or the other: “It’s way too premature.”

“We need a lot more information—if we say yes, what’s our share of the profits? Is Flamboro OK? There are a lot of outstanding issues … it’s way too early to make a decision on this. It may be the right thing, but I just want to know all the revenue, the social costs, a potential location,” Ferguson said.

Ward 7 councillor Scott Duvall agrees.

“Council just formed a subcommittee last week to determine what conditions should be met for a casino in Hamilton. The subcommittee has not had a meeting yet, and we should at least allow them some time to work on proposals,” he said in an email Saturday.

Flamboro Downs is a unanimous priority. While Ward 14 councillor Robert Pasuta says he’s not sure the city needs a new casino, he would like to see the conversation continue.

“I’m not cutting loose yet. I’m staying with working with the casino, and the horse racing part of it …I don’t think it’s a dead issue yet. We shouldn’t give up contact with the OLG.”

Despite the OLG’s rejection, Ward 13 councillor Russ Powers says a referendum is still necessary before any decisions are made.

“I would strongly suggest that council says no to the OLG now and still put a referendum to all Hamilton citizens in a 2014 Municipal Elections question ... let the people state their preference one way or the other,” he said.

The OLG has said it will not force a casino on any city that decides against one.
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