HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > Proposals


    PENN 15 in the SkyscraperPage Database

Building Data Page   • Comparison Diagram   • New York Skyscraper Diagram

Map Location
New York Projects & Construction Forum

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1501  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 4:03 AM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
ψ Sailor of the Mind ψ
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Riverview Estates Fairway (PA)
Posts: 36,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post

Vornado's Evil Plan to Make a New Hudson Yards around Penn Station






That's kind of how it goes in a nut shell.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1502  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 8:00 AM
citybooster citybooster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 353
At one time the Hotel Pennsylvania may have been worthy of saving and dramatic renovation and repurposing, but that ship has sailed. Most important thing though is to replace a once grand building with one worthy of being a focal point of the 21 st century New York City skyline. The current incarnation is most definitively NOT it. But in the end, it's Vornado's call... good thing they have a lot of time to reconsider this brutalist/modernist debacle.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1503  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 2:18 PM
TonyNYC TonyNYC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
At one time the Hotel Pennsylvania may have been worthy of saving and dramatic renovation and repurposing, but that ship has sailed. Most important thing though is to replace a once grand building with one worthy of being a focal point of the 21 st century New York City skyline. The current incarnation is most definitively NOT it. But in the end, it's Vornado's call... good thing they have a lot of time to reconsider this brutalist/modernist debacle.
Totally agree.. Build us an instant classic tower, not this turd!

Look whats happening with the Grand Hyatt Site.. 175 Park Ave is going to be an instant Classic!

That's what we need here to replace the Hotel Penn and anchor Vornado's stronghold in the Penn Plaza area.. We need something EPIC!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1504  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 4:53 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 2,294
Steve Roth is delusional. Nothing will rise in this cesspool for years. This area has enormous potential, but it is currently the armpit of Manhattan.

Tenants will go to Midtown East and the HY in the near term.


__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"

Last edited by JMKeynes; Mar 2, 2021 at 5:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1505  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 5:13 PM
TonyTone's Avatar
TonyTone TonyTone is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Tri-State DE-PA-NJ
Posts: 345
[QUOTE=JMKeynes;9205011]Steve Roth is delusional. Nothing will rise in this cesspool for years. This area has enormous potential, but it is currently the armpit of Manhattan.

Interesting Comment
__________________
Promoting Cities since 1998!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1506  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 5:38 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 45,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
Steve Roth is delusional. Nothing will rise in this cesspool for years. This area has enormous potential, but it is currently the armpit of Manhattan.
Interesting Comment
If not, a foolish one. If you can build an instant city in New York (Hudson Yards) in a vast wasteland of parking lots, homeless camps, addicts, and all of the other undesirable things dumped over there - with no transit to speak of - surely you can build on top of the busiest transit hub in the country, with it’s large number of subway and commuter lines.

Say what you want aboutvthis area, it has been one of Manhattan’s busiest areas for pedestrian and retail activity. That’s why it’s always crowded. Even Macy’s has jumped on the bandwagon.
__________________
NEW YORK heals.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1507  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 6:00 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 2,294
That's not accurate. Because the HY was a vast wasteland of lots, it was a blank canvas that was created instantaneously in a vacuum. Simultaneously, parks were built, super high-end shops were built, etc. An isolated oasis of luxury arose spontaneously.

The Penn area, by contrast, is a vast existing, filthy cancer that needs to be rebuilt one building at a time. It has huge potential. 15 years ago, the stretch of 42nd Street between 7th and Lex was utterly disgusting, and towers like 1 Vandy and 175 Park would not have been viable.

A super tower on the Hotel Penn site will be viable in the future, but that area needs to be cleaned up first, just like 42nd St was. The chemo should start with the hideous block to the north of the Hotel Penn.
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"

Last edited by JMKeynes; Mar 2, 2021 at 6:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1508  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 7:34 PM
mschall50 mschall50 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 7
Honestly I can't believe this isn't landmarked. This building. In this location. By this architect.

This is a block from the old Penn Station and was designed by William Symmes Richardson of McKim Mead & White.

Looking at 111W57th, 9 Dekalb, and Hearst Tower, I'm disappointed to see what could have been an incredible old-meets-new proposal get crushed for another architecturally insignificant massing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1509  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 7:45 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,478
at least this one is first go, i'm more concerned about the additional phase one demo of other buildings that won't go back up until later in phase two.

who knows if that follows any true timeline or if it will be empty pits for a decade.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1510  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 8:50 PM
TonyNYC TonyNYC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
If not, a foolish one. If you can build an instant city in New York (Hudson Yards) in a vast wasteland of parking lots, homeless camps, addicts, and all of the other undesirable things dumped over there - with no transit to speak of - surely you can build on top of the busiest transit hub in the country, with it’s large number of subway and commuter lines.

Say what you want aboutvthis area, it has been one of Manhattan’s busiest areas for pedestrian and retail activity. That’s why it’s always crowded. Even Macy’s has jumped on the bandwagon.

Agree with NYguy.. this area might be dumpy, but it is prime, very busy with pedestrian and retail activity and will only get better once investments and build outs occur.

It's the prefect area location wise, above the busiest train station in the country.. which will be expanding greatly with Moynihan Station done and Empire Station on the way.

I question the total amount of office space that will be build out here in the next decade and a half, but the area will be a grand slam once completed.

I'd also want 15 Penn Plaza to be the grandest of towers in the City, not the turd that is planned.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1511  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 1:58 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 45,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschall50 View Post
Honestly I can't believe this isn't landmarked. This building. In this location. By this architect.

This is a block from the old Penn Station and was designed by William Symmes Richardson of McKim Mead & White.

Looking at 111W57th, 9 Dekalb, and Hearst Tower, I'm disappointed to see what could have been an incredible old-meets-new proposal get crushed for another architecturally insignificant massing.
The massing was going to be a bulky tower, landmarking or not. But the building has been altered enough that it isn't landmark worthy. Just being old doesn't make something landmark worthy, it has to be of some significance.






Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
That's not accurate. Because the HY was a vast wasteland of lots, it was a blank canvas that was created instantaneously in a vacuum. Simultaneously, parks were built, super high-end shops were built, etc. An isolated oasis of luxury arose spontaneously.

Those high end shops, and parks (which are still being built) came later. There was one lone tower built in the Hudson Yards, and the rest followed because OBVIOUSLY there was a plan to develop the area - a plan by the way that isn't even half complete. There are still areas of open lots and homeless encampments. You seem to think that the 15 Penn site exists in a vacuum. It does not. That's why buildings like 1 and 2 Penn exists. Why Vornado has been steady with it's leasing of other surroundings in the area.




Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNYC View Post
Agree with NYguy.. this area might be dumpy, but it is prime, very busy with pedestrian and retail activity and will only get better once investments and build outs occur.

It's the prefect area location wise, above the busiest train station in the country.. which will be expanding greatly with Moynihan Station done and Empire Station on the way.

I question the total amount of office space that will be build out here in the next decade and a half, but the area will be a grand slam once completed.

I'd also want 15 Penn Plaza to be the grandest of towers in the City, not the turd that is planned.

To the tenants that occupy this tower, whatever design it may be, I'm sure it will be one of the best designed places to work (and commute).

But this area is beyond PRIME, it's been a great location for retail for that very reason.




https://34thstreet.org/neighborhood



__________________
NEW YORK heals.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1512  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 2:24 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 2,294
Herald Square is nice, but a mere one block over to 7th is disgusting.

__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1513  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 3:35 PM
pianowizard pianowizard is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan, US
Posts: 575
On the bright side, it might be cheaper to build a supertall in or near a "disgusting" neighborhood than in an upscale one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1514  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 4:10 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 2,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by pianowizard View Post
On the bright side, it might be cheaper to build a supertall in or near a "disgusting" neighborhood than in an upscale one.
Not remotely. The Hotel Penn site will definitely be developed, but it's a matter of when. It's a huge site that can (and will) accommodate an enormous building. Thus, while the area is currently a cesspool, that site is incredibly valuable. Apart from the cost of the site (which Vornado already owns), all other construction costs are the same here, as they would be on the Helmsley Palace site on CPS.
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1515  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 5:19 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 45,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
Herald Square is nice, but a mere one block over to 7th is disgusting.


What’s disgusting about this photo, the Sbarro? I don’t eat there, so I don’t know about that.
__________________
NEW YORK heals.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1516  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 7:21 PM
Amanita's Avatar
Amanita Amanita is offline
Crane Goddess
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,188
It's full of businesses catering to people who aren't rich, is what I suspect. That and tourists staying in the area.

Gotta get rid of everything that isn't luxury retail or high end dining. That, or endless bank branches and starbucks.

Edit- also, the buildings housing these businesses don't look to be terribly well maintained.
__________________
"Build me to the heavens, and Life never stops"
"Live as if the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be"
-Angel
"Prayers are fleeting and wars are forgotten, but what is built endures"
-Ambassador DeLenn, Babylon 5
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1517  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 7:31 PM
TonyTone's Avatar
TonyTone TonyTone is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Tri-State DE-PA-NJ
Posts: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
What’s disgusting about this photo, the Sbarro? I don’t eat there, so I don’t know about that.
Thats what im wondering why are people calling a place dumpy with multiple ethnicities of people and guess what...

This place has more culture and good people then a tourist location like 42nd.

To call this disgusting is disrespectful.

Like others have said if it isn't a strip of Starbucks, banks & Jewelry store & whole foods the area is dumpy right?
__________________
Promoting Cities since 1998!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1518  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 7:33 PM
BK1985 BK1985 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 74
Ground level retail high end and lower end are part of the lifeblood of the city. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean that it’s disgusting. I can tell you that once these are wiped out it will be replaced with a bank branch or Walgreens/Duane Reade. Robertwalpole/Londonlawyer/jmkeynes has a clear M.O. here so I’ve gotten used to ignoring it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1519  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 7:37 PM
TonyTone's Avatar
TonyTone TonyTone is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Tri-State DE-PA-NJ
Posts: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK1985 View Post
Ground level retail high end and lower end are part of the lifeblood of the city. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean that it’s disgusting. I can tell you that once these are wiped out it will be replaced with a bank branch or Walgreens/Duane Reade. Robertwalpole/Londonlawyer/jmkeynes has a clear M.O. here so I’ve gotten used to ignoring it.
+1
__________________
Promoting Cities since 1998!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1520  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 7:59 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is online now
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 2,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK1985 View Post
Ground level retail high end and lower end are part of the lifeblood of the city. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean that it’s disgusting. I can tell you that once these are wiped out it will be replaced with a bank branch or Walgreens/Duane Reade. Robertwalpole/Londonlawyer/jmkeynes has a clear M.O. here so I’ve gotten used to ignoring it.
Good one, Comrade Guevara.
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > Proposals
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:53 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.